Linux-Advocacy Digest #690, Volume #31 Tue, 23 Jan 01 23:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("Chad Myers")
Does Code Decay (Russ Lyttle)
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Win -> Linux becoming easier than ever! (sfcybear)
Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source ("Chad Myers")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:48:14 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94kpnb$13e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : Not only would they have less performance, less reliability, and
> : less remote management capability (Win2K terminal services rocks),
>
> Anyone who thinks Windows has better remotability than UNIX is
> either ignorant or lying.
Have you seen Windows terminal services?
Didn't think so. You would agree with me if you had.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Does Code Decay
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:04:00 GMT
I'm cross posting this to the linux and nt groups as it seems pertinant
to both.
Recently MS had a lowkey campaign to get customers to replace NT with
W2k because Nt suffered from code decay. I came across an article "Does
Code Decay? Assessing the Evidence from Change Management Data" by
Stephen G. Eick, on the IEEE site. You can get the article at
<http://wwww.computer.org/tse/ts2001/e1toc.htm>.
For those who don't have time or can't read the large PDF file, the
authors looked at a system having 100,000,000 lines of C/C++ source and
100,000,000 lines of header and make files. They came to the conclusion
that code does decay. Some symptoms they listed are :
1. Excessively complex(bloted) code - the system could be rewritten with
many fewer LOC
2. A history of frequent changes
3. A history of faults
4. Widely dispersed changes - fixes hit lots of modules or have a large
size
5. Numerous interfaces(entry points)
I especiall like #2. Now everyone who complains about Linux 2.4 kernel
taking so long, know why.
Too late for NT, but Linus needs to keep this in mind. Keep the kernel
simple and compact.
--
Russ
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
Not powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:49:14 GMT
"Aaron Ginn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > Garsh. I almost find myself tempted to ask why they're migrating to
Solaris
> > > rather than to W2K.
> >
> > Sun probably paid them a bunch to do it.
> >
> > However, it was supposed to be completed a long time ago, and I don't
> > recall seeing a PR that herralded it, so perhaps they changed their mind.
> >
> > They were a Unix-type shop to begin with anyhow, the logical choice for
> > them was to grow up from Linux and get Solaris. They had NT because one
> > of the Senior management was smart and decided to use NT on the back end.
> > It served them well, as you can see.
> >
> > However, I hope they're careful with the Sun migration as you saw
> > with eBay what can happen when you rely on Sun for both hardware
> > and software.
>
>
> Do you honestly expect us to believe the stuff you write?
Don't ask me, ask eBay.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Win -> Linux becoming easier than ever!
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:59:58 GMT
http://www.telekomnet.com/writer_telekomnet/1-23-01_virtual_SuSE.asp
Gotta love it!
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:59:08 +0200
Reply-To: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Jan Johanson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It took you a full minute?
> > > >
> > > > takes half that long with windows and no reboot is required for W2K
(you
> > > > xposted to a NT advocacy forum, not win9x)
> > > >
> > > > "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > I recently opened an new account with earthlink. After placing the
> > > > > order, I waited for an hour, edited a kppp script, logged in and
was
> > up
> > > > > and running within 1 minute. Today I got the package earthlink
sends
> > out
> > > > > to all new users. It includes a CD and "Quick Start" guide. The
last
> > > > > line of the instructions for 95/98/Me is to reboot the computer.
> > > > >
> > > > > So much for MS operating systems being easier to use than Linux.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Russ
> > > > > <http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
> > > > > Not powered by ActiveX
> > >
> > > Real kicker, that I forgot to mention, is that NT and W2K aren't even
> > > supported. If you call them they have a help option for NT, but not
W2k.
> > > It gets lumped into "other Operating systems, estimated time of wait
is
> > > 63 minutes". I only had to hold for 21 minutes for NT.
> >
> > Identical to how you do it in 9x.
> > What is your point?
> The ISP considers NT more important to support than W2K. I ask why they
> don't have more Linux support. The answer was "Linux users don't need
> our support. They usually support us."
> I know MS is trying to obsolete NT, but the market doesn't seem to be
> going along.
They don't need to have special support to 2000, they need to treat it like
ME (actually, it's the other way around, but it doesn't matter at the
moment.)
It should go like this:
A> Log on as administrator
B> Go to Start>Settings>Network & Dial Up Connection
C> double click Make New Connection
D> Click Next
E> Choose dial up to the internet and click next
F> (not logged as admin at the moment, doing it from memory) enter user name
& password, ISP phone number, enter DNS & IP.
Good luck.
User wise, except for having to be logged in as admin, there is very little
difference between ME & 2K in how you set up a DUN.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So much for Linux being more Difficult than Windows
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:03:10 +0200
Reply-To: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:14:00 +0500, "Gary Hallock"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Sure, after waiting a few days for the CD to be shipped in the mail.
> > >You totally missed the point.
> > >
> > >Gary
> >
> > No YOU missed the point Gary.
> > Earthlink provides software on the CD that he can't use because it
> > doesn't run under Linux. It's more for a family, or newbie, but it is
> > useful none the less. Oh yea it also includes the latest version of IE
> > 5.5 a quality browser instead of that piece of trash Netscape.
> > And BTW the Windows user can connect just as easily by calling them,
> > and guess what it takes about 10 minutes because the person on the
> > other end of the phone will know exactly how to assist you in setting
> > up your system.
> > Most of his hour was probably spent waiting for Earthlink to find the
> > one person in the support department who knows anything about Linsux.
> >
> > So it is YOU who, once again miss the picture.
> >
> > Flatfish
> > Why do they call it a flatfish?
> > Remove the ++++ to reply.
> I really could have gotten windows up and running before the CD got
> here, I think. But even so, setting up and getting logged into an
> unknown ISP is more difficult with windows. Also I wouldn't have had ftp
> as that wasn't included on any of my windows distributions. I didn't
> finish the CD install because it wanted to install IE on my computer and
> I had enough troubele getting that piece of trash off the first time.
More difficult? Hah!
Exactly *how*?
What do you mean by ftp? client? server?
PWS is a free http & ftp server for windows 9x, it is somewhere in the CD.
IIS is for NT.
Both OS has a builtin text-based ftp client, as well as IE capable of
functioning as FTP client.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:08:59 +0200
Reply-To: "Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam>
"Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94kv4o$50n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I happen to agree with Bill. I run Linux and Win9x at home. Lately I have
> been spending around 70/30 time on Linux Vs Win9x. Admittedly using Linux
> mostly for work and Windows for games.
>
> Apparently Black Isle (sp?) studios are making Neverwiner Nights for Linux
> :) cant' wait.
>
> Add up the savings with Linux
> Free Operating System.
Count that one for linux.
As for the rest, here is a short list: (Disclaimer, it's just something I
put together in a hurry, I might have slipped one or two linux programs
instead of windows programs, please don't stick to this).
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10016-100-1806243.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-1.lst-1-6.1806243
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10016-100-2236152.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-7-1.2236152
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10016-100-2833642.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-1.2833642
Office Packages
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2240672.html?tag=st.dl.10026-
106-1.lst-4-12.2240672
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2938091.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-4.2938091
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2240672.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-4.2240672
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-1755795.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-6.1755795
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-917868.html?tag=st.dl.10001-1
03-1.lst-1-9.917868
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2373017.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-12.2373017
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2247029.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-15.2247029
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-899532.html?tag=st.dl.10001-1
03-1.lst-1-16.899532
word processors
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-3356748-100-2650132.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-10.2650132
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-3583274.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-8.3583274
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2703727.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-13.2703727
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-2300102.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-1.2300102
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-916508.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-1.lst-1-7.916508
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10016-100-1801288.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-10.1801288
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10016-100-1801288.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-1.lst-1-10.1801288
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003619-100-1925942.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-14.1925942
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1509819.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-17.1509819
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1659520.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-19.1659520
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-2787783.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-1.lst-1-22.2787783
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003619-100-879630.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-1.lst-1-24.879630
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-902140.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-2.lst-1-1.902140
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1507274.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-2.lst-1-4.1507274
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10098-100-1541318.html?tag=st.dl.10001-
103-2.lst-1-12.1541318
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1568354.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-2.lst-1-16.1568354
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-3893849.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-2.lst-1-19.3893849
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-858760.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-2.lst-1-20.858760
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-2645362.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-2.lst-1-22.2645362
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1475101-100-910533.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-2.lst-1-21.910533
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003619-100-904159.html?tag=st.dl.10001
-103-3.lst-1-2.904159
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10026-100-2366747.html?tag=st.dl.10026-
106-1.lst-4-10.2366747
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1567650.html?tag=st.dl.1000
1-103-3.lst-1-21.1567650
Text editors
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-916362.html?tag=st.dl.10001-1
03-1.lst-1-23.916362
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-910898.html?tag=st.dl.10001-1
03-1.lst-7-1.910898
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/
http://www.bloodshed.net/
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-2729088.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-2.lst-1-21.2729088
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-14487-100-3958078.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-2.lst-1-20.3958078
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-14493-100-894429.html?tag=st.dl.10000-1
03-2.lst-1-22.894429
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-1515693.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-3.lst-1-8.1515693
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-1571073.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-3.lst-1-19.1571073
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-895627.html?tag=st.dl.10000-1
03-1.lst-1-13.895627
IDE
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/
http://www.bloodshed.net/
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-867944.html?tag=st.dl.10000-1
03-1.lst-1-7.867944
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10091-100-2417017.html?tag=st.dl.10000-
103-1.lst-1-15.2417017
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-895627.html?tag=st.dl.10000-1
03-1.lst-1-13.895627
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003375-100-2399176.html?tag=st.dl.1000
0-103-1.lst-1-24.2399176
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10085-100-860223.html?tag=st.dl.10000-1
03-2.lst-1-4.860223
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003375-100-892248.html?tag=st.dl.10000
-103-2.lst-1-2.892248
Compilers
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1635599-100-3862769.html?tag=st.dl.1635
599-106-1.lst-1-14.3862769
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-2673070-100-2401307.html?tag=st.dl.1000
0-103-1.lst-1-2.2401307
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1635599-100-2704652.html?tag=st.dl.1635
599-106-1.lst-1-21.2704652
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1635599-100-3228376.html?tag=st.dl.1635
599-106-2.lst-1-6.3228376
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-1635599-100-1502914.html?tag=st.dl.1635
599-106-2.lst-1-9.1502914
http://www.canada.cnet.com/downloads/0-1635599-100-4451164.html?tag=st.dl.10
001.new.1635599-100-4451164
Finance
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10093-100-1549065.html?tag=st.dl.10093-
106-1.lst-1-4.1549065
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10093-100-1583256.html?tag=st.dl.10093-
106-1.lst-1-18.1583256
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10093-100-1556767.html?tag=st.dl.10093-
106-1.lst-1-10.1556767
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10093-100-2111057.html?tag=st.dl.10093-
106-1.lst-1-21.2111057
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-10093-100-2109160.html?tag=st.dl.10093-
106-2.lst-1-21.2109160
Anti Virus
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:57:40 GMT
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Myers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:06:08 GMT
> <kdgb6.12895$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> JS PL wrote:
> >>
> >> > Linux is hardly a threat to any market.
> >>
> >> Linux is a threat to the desktop market. (Notice that I said "threat", not
> >> "victor".)
> >
> >A sad attempt is it, then.
> >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2675184,00.html
> >
> >Linux has less than one percent in the Desktop market (See Erik's browser
> >statistics from a debate on this very topic a few months ago).
>
> You mean 0.3%. Please give more precise statistics (and cites
> would be nice, too :-) ).
>
> [The above is remembered from a discussion some weeks or months back.
> I believe you were the one that came up with this figure; if so,
> a cite should not be horribly difficult -- hopefully, I've not
> misremembered the figure.]
We are remembering the same discussion. Now that I give it some
thought, it wasn't Erik, it was Chad Mulligan. It wasn't I, because
I can't remember the site he was referring to =(.
Needless to say, a dilligent search on Deja would reveal the truth.
>
> >The only OS it's a threat to would be OS/2 or Solaris in that market,
> >I suppose.
> >
> >Do you have any facts to back up your claim it's a threat in the desktop
> >market? Of course not.
>
> Seconded. However, I for one would think NT isn't much of a
> threat to the server market, myself. :-)
0% to 30+% and still growing is a thread, if you ask me.
Linux, OTOH, isn't carving into a solid market. It's sneaking
into the Unix market by undercutting it, it isn't approaching
a giant brick wall like MS had to. MS overcame that, Linux is
riding on the backs of overly expensive underperforming Unix
boxen.
> >
> >> Meanwhile, Linux is not just a threat, but is actually taking over
> >> the server, embedded device, and supercomputing markets. Sad to say,
> >> but lots of (relatively) respectable vendors are going to die
> >> before Microsoft does.
> >
> >Facts? Of course not. Linux has what, 20-ish % in the server market,
> >and that's even with the liberal estimates.
>
> Very liberal. I can see Apache enjoying a monopoly, but Linux?
> Hard to say.
>
> >Not much of a threat to anyone but the Unix vendors that it's taking over.
> >It hasn't touched Windows' market yet.
>
> It won't, either. Unless Microsoft does something egregriously stupid.
> Linux simply can't do ASP at the moment. (Of course, I'm not sure
> how many people are using ASP, either. Solaris can do ASP because
> a third party wrote and/or colicensed from Microsoft a Visual
> Basic interpreter, however, it can't address COM.)
There are those that would consider ChilliASP a joke. It's good for
basics, but it kind of defeats the whole point of ASP: COM provider
for scripting which is its biggest advantage. Without that, it's
JASP (just another scripting provider).
If you reviewed businesses (not the millions of one hit/month
personal and non-prof org sites that Apache rules supreme in),
you would find a majority using IIS if for nothing else the
power of ASP/COM. JSP/EJB is closing in, but I think that
CGI is still the 2nd most popular, even in these days.
PHP doesn't seem to be a big hit among Fortune 500 business,
but then neither is Apache.
> [snip for brevity and lack of facts]
>
> >You've never used Win2K, have you? You'd be hard pressed to crash it.
>
> I've already crashed one program on Win2k by installing ATI drivers.
> However, it didn't take down the system. It's the only crash I'll
> swear to at this time (I've not switched over to Win2k yet on my
> development machine).
I've always maintained that bad drivers will bring down any system
(I've had several crashes in Linux/X because of bad Intel 810
video drivers, but I don't hold it against Linux, only Intel).
On that same note, ATI is right up there among the worst driver
providers, so I'm suprised that you've managed to boot, let alone
use the system.
(in case you haven't noticed, I would never use an ATI card just
because of their drivers)
-Chad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:13:19 -0000
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:47:33 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:51:18 +0800, nuxx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> This is the Moron's Server OS. Why should they "need to know"?
>> >> Applets this tiny should just plain be installed by default.
>> >
>> >They "need to know" because as an NT administrator, it's their job to know a
>> >bit about the OS they are using. It's also designed to stop dickheads who
>>
>> What's this VMS-think that's seeping in here?
>
>Just beacuse NT is easier to admin doesn't mean that people walking
>in from the street should be doing it. It still takes a good deal of
Your brain is slipping again.
"futzing with widgets" is not admin.
>knowledge. Anyone claiming or bashing Windows NT/2K should at least
>have a working knowledge of how to kill a process most efficiently.
Why should the Windoze admin be so constrained. The whole
point of the Widnoze hype, even in the server room, is
the lesser burden when it comes to expertise.
>
>Unlike you, Ghost in the Machine typically takes these kinds of things
>under advisement for future reference.
I don't put great effort into getting my 'bigger iron' to
the point where they can at least tolerate casual loading
on my part.
I don't have any pre-defined attachment to Team Microsoft.
So I won't automatically go "rah rah" when someone mentions
their name. Also, I will be interested to see what extra
utility their product can yield me beyond what I can already
achieve.
IOW, M$ has to prove itself. Part of that is not taking up
any more of my time than other options do.
--
The term "popular" is MEANINGLESS in consumer computing. DOS3
was more "popular" than contemporary Macintoshes despite the
likelihood that someone like you would pay the extra money to
not have to deal with DOS3.
Network effects are everything in computing.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:59:00 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <Please@don't.spam> wrote in message
news:94kmnv$qda$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Myers
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:06:08 GMT
> > <kdgb6.12895$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> JS PL wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Linux is hardly a threat to any market.
> > >>
> > >> Linux is a threat to the desktop market. (Notice that I said "threat",
> not
> > >> "victor".)
> > >
> > >A sad attempt is it, then.
> > >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2675184,00.html
> > >
> > >Linux has less than one percent in the Desktop market (See Erik's browser
> > >statistics from a debate on this very topic a few months ago).
> >
> > You mean 0.3%. Please give more precise statistics (and cites
> > would be nice, too :-) ).
> >
> > [The above is remembered from a discussion some weeks or months back.
> > I believe you were the one that came up with this figure; if so,
> > a cite should not be horribly difficult -- hopefully, I've not
> > misremembered the figure.]
>
> http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2000/October/os.html
Ah yes, thank you, Ayende.
>
> > >> Meanwhile, Linux is not just a threat, but is actually taking over
> > >> the server, embedded device, and supercomputing markets. Sad to say,
> > >> but lots of (relatively) respectable vendors are going to die
> > >> before Microsoft does.
> > >
> > >Facts? Of course not. Linux has what, 20-ish % in the server market,
> > >and that's even with the liberal estimates.
> >
> > Very liberal. I can see Apache enjoying a monopoly, but Linux?
> > Hard to say.
> >
> > >Not much of a threat to anyone but the Unix vendors that it's taking
> over.
> > >It hasn't touched Windows' market yet.
> >
> > It won't, either. Unless Microsoft does something egregriously stupid.
> > Linux simply can't do ASP at the moment. (Of course, I'm not sure
> > how many people are using ASP, either. Solaris can do ASP because
> > a third party wrote and/or colicensed from Microsoft a Visual
> > Basic interpreter, however, it can't address COM.)
>
> What advantage does ASP has outside of Windows over other languages?
> On Windows, I can understand why it's the language of choice.
> But outside of Windows? Why? (Truly interested in knowning, btw)
Well, VBScript is incredibly easy to learn and use. For people just
starting, and who don't want to use Windows/IIS for the web server,
ChilliASP is a good way to get started. Learning Perl, Python,
or PHP has a steeper learning curve and, in some cases, doesn't
provide as many features.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:00:01 GMT
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Myers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:08:14 GMT
> <ifgb6.12896$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Chad Myers wrote:
> >>
> >> > Oh yeah, and by the way, what are they running on the back end that
> >> > does all the searching?
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, that's right. It used to be NT, I think it's partly NT/Solaris
> >> > now. They might be migrating all to Solaris, but maybe not after
> >> > the ebay debacle.
> >>
> >> Garsh. I almost find myself tempted to ask why they're migrating to
Solaris
> >> rather than to W2K.
> >
> >Sun probably paid them a bunch to do it.
>
> I could see Sun giving them a discount to an aggressive purchasing
> agent on a large piece of hardware, or a large farm of smaller
> hardware, but I doubt they would pay Yahoo unless they expected
> advertising revenue.
That's what I meant, incentives, sorry. Although I wouldn't put signed
checks past Sun.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:17:37 -0000
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:48:14 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:94kpnb$13e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> : Not only would they have less performance, less reliability, and
>> : less remote management capability (Win2K terminal services rocks),
>>
>> Anyone who thinks Windows has better remotability than UNIX is
>> either ignorant or lying.
>
>Have you seen Windows terminal services?
What difference would that make?
At best,even swallowing Microsoft's own propaganda, it
would only buy you faster visual connectivity on low
bandwidth connections.
OTOH, it is particular to Microsoft. Whereas telnet/X/ssh
clients and servers are widely available on multiple
platforms from VMS to Macintosh.
>
>Didn't think so. You would agree with me if you had.
--
The ability to type
./configure
make
make install
does not constitute programming skill. |||
/ | \
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