Linux-Advocacy Digest #464, Volume #32 Sun, 25 Feb 01 05:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux (Jim Richardson)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] ("Les Mikesell")
Re: [OT] .sig (was: Something Seemingly Simple.) (Richard Heathfield)
Re: M$ doing it again! (Jim Richardson)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Tim Hanson)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Richard Heathfield)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Joona I Palaste)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Joona I Palaste)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Richard Heathfield)
Re: Now we know why Allchin was tweaked! (Shane Phelps)
Re: Now we know why Allchin was tweaked! (Shane Phelps)
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Boris Dynin")
Re: NT vs *nix performance (J Sloan)
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Dave Vandervies)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft seeks government help to stop Linux
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:13:41 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:52:29 +0000,
Edward Rosten, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "chrisv"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>> They want you to be a conformist little robot who offers ZERO
>>>> resistance to any of their decisions.
>>>
>>>Me having a gun would make no difference to a single decision the
>>>government has made in recent times.
>>
>> The lose of your rights comes one at a time, baby. Pull your head out,
>> and just say NO to those who want to take away your freedoms. It
>> doesn't matter if your a gun-owner or a communist or a flaming fairy.
>> Tell the government to leave intact your rights as a free American.
>
>I have a right to walk around and live my life with a negligable chance of
>getting shot. that is MY right as a free Englishman and I want to keep
>that right. Since guns are not commonplace here, letting nutters have them
>means oppression, not freedom for me.
>
you have no such right, you may expect it, but it doesn't exist.
>
>>>> You see...incidents like Dunblane are HYPED so as to brainwash you
>>>> into surrendering your BASIC HIMAN RIGHT to self defence.
>>>
>>>I didn't own a gun anyway. The new legislation stopped nutters getting
>>>guns. Almost noone in the UK (barring criminals) owned hand gund. The
>>>legislation won't affect criminals and it won't affect non gun owners,
>>>so it has affected almost noone. Besides, if you still are hell bent on
>>>protecting your home, then you can get a shot gun, since they are still
>>>allowed.
>>
>> What's that story again? Something like "they came for the jews, and I
>> didn't say anything because I wasn't a jew" and some other similar
>> phrases, and at the end, "when they came for me, there wasn't anyone
>> else to say anything."
>
>To be quite frank, guns or no guns, if they come after me, I am a dead
>man. Like I said, they could kill me before I knew they were after me.
>
that's why I am glad I am not the only armed citizen in the country.
>>>If the government wanted to turn on us and guns were legal, it would cut
>>>off the supply first, as well. Any stocks of ammo wouldn't last very
>>>long. Again, having a gun wouldn't help much.
>>
>> Bad logic. "Your tool might not last forever, so why have the tool at
>> all?"
>
>I don't think the tool would last for a significant amount of time. What
>would stop that govt. shelling the house of someone with a personal
>arsenal? Meanwhilst, I am more free out of a gun culture than in one.
>
They have to know about it. Tell me why they didn't shell the IRA into the
history books?
>>>And the government forces have avaliable guns of far higher precision
>>>and power than I would be able to afford. I may as well just use a bow
>>>and arrows for all the help a hand gun would be against trained army
>>>forces with fantastically expensive weaponary. Again, me owning a gun
>>>would do very little against a dictator coming in to power.
>>
>> If my little pistol is so weak, why do you want to take it away from me?
>> You can't have it both ways, buddy!
>
>It is strong against me. Try using it against a mobile gun shelling you
>from 60 miles away.
no, I'll use it against the guy laying the gun shelling someone else 60 miles
away.
>
>> Hell, I can see handgun stores opening all over in China right now!
>> After all, they pose no threat to the government and all it's scary
>> weapons, right?
>
>The Chinese army versus an army of untrained civs armed with hand guns.
>I wonder who would win.
>
depends on numbers and will, that's all. Guns make it easier, but it takes
will.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:23:17 GMT
"Bobby Shaftoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:2XVl6.23279$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> It seems to be, Chad, that all you've succeeded in doing is causing a
large
> quantity of the regular users of this newsgroup to lose a whole load of
> respect for you. Am I correct in saying that the one outstanding
> 'fundamental flaw' in SSH is its "insecure" man-in-the-middle attack
during
> initial key exchange?
Respect? I think you have confused Chad with someone else.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:18:45 +0000
From: Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: [OT] .sig (was: Something Seemingly Simple.)
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> > Are you awared that the recommend maximum length for a .sig is 4 lines?
> >
>
> Are you aware that this suggestion was formulated during the days
> before fiber-optics, when MFM and RLL were not even invented yet,
> and the ARPA-NET backbone had a 56k bandwidth and 20 megabyte disks
> were considered huge...
Are you aware that some of us are still using 28.8 modems and paying by
the minute for our dialup connections, and that any saving is thus most
welcome?
If you answer, please remove your sig block before so doing.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: M$ doing it again!
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:57:25 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:54:53 -0600,
Erik Funkenbusch, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Hi Erik,
>>
>> > MS has already stated in several places, including the Whistler SDK
>> > (available online freely to anyone) that the theming API's would not be
>> > released. The reason, is that they want to ensure that all themes
>> > follow the basic windows UI guidelines.
>> >
>> > I'm sure MS will license the theme SDK to developers that agree to abide
>> > by UI guidelines and certify the themes, but that won't happen till at
>> > least the release of whistler.
>>
>> I appreciate the confirmation that Microsoft will not be releasing the
>> theming APIs.
>>
>> I was silly enough to think that Microsoft no longer practiced hiding API
>> specifications from the public and developers.
>
>All OS's have unpublished API's, including Linux. You can find all kinds of
>API's that are inside the kernel but do not appear in man pages because
>they're intended to be used internally inside the kernel itself without a
>published interface.
the source is freely available, including in paper form, it's published. There
are no hidden API's in linux's kernel (there may or may not be some in
commercial closed source SW that runs on linux, but that is a different
manner.)
>
>Where someone like MS would get in trouble is if their apps, like office
>used those API's to their advantage, and nobody has yet proved this to be
>the case. Andrew Schulman published a book years ago called Undocumented
>Windows which exposed MS's use of hidden API's in 16 bit versions of Office,
>but also proved that using those API's gave them no advantage. Most of it
>was left over from the Windows 2.x days.
>
So they even screwed up cheating? figures.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:59:05 GMT
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> Bloody Viking wrote:
> >
> > Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> > : Those are perfectly normal errors: you have no cos function. You need to
> > : link against the maths library as well as #including the header.
> >
> > : gcc -lm ...
> >
> > The "0lm" trick sure did it. Just tested it on another virtual console.
> > Thanks! Fun easier quesation. Why isn't it in degrees as is the standard?
> >
>
> Becuase Pi radians = 1 complete circle.
>
Nope. C = pi 2r = pi d.
> radians are a "unitless" type of unit, and therefore, the standard.
>
> > --
> > FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> > The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> > The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
> but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
Vila: "I think I have just made the biggest mistake of my life."
Orac: "It is unlikely. I would predict there are far greater mistakes
waiting to be made by someone with your obvious talent for it."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:59:07 +0000
From: Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> He's a Brit with a full Darwin fur coat like an orangutan! Yes, we DID climb
> down from the trees. Why else would kids try climbing trees? Whether you like
> it or not, we did come from a prehistoric ape, and that ape was the
> human/chimpanzee precursor ape.
>
> If you have a high-speed SUV outfitted with a flux cap, you can meet your
> great^300,000 grandparent. He or she will look about like a modern chimp but
> with arm length similar to our own.
This is nothing to do with either C or Linux.
Followups set to talk.origins.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
------------------------------
From: Joona I Palaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 25 Feb 2001 08:18:12 GMT
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
> Becuase Pi radians = 1 complete circle.
> radians are a "unitless" type of unit, and therefore, the standard.
Stop repeating the same nonsense over and over again.
--
/-- Joona Palaste ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Shh! The maestro is decomposing!"
- Gary Larson
------------------------------
From: Joona I Palaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 25 Feb 2001 08:16:28 GMT
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
> Bloody Viking wrote:
>>
>> -hs- ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>
>> : To avoid the question "Why isn't it in radians as is the standard?"
>>
>> So, it is in radians. Now that I know about the "-lm" switch for the compile,
>> I get to make a degree2radian conversion line to add to my code. Something
>> off-topic is that the TI-86 calculator out of the box defaults to radians.
>> (you set it to degrees)
>>
>> Here's a chance to correct (and flame) me. Last time I checked, a full circle
>> is 3.1415926.... radians, that being pi number radians to equal 360 degrees.
>> Time to add the conversion line to my little programme.
>>
> correct. Pi radians = one circle.
Both of you are wrong. One circle equals 2*Pi radians.
--
/-- Joona Palaste ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"This is a personnel commuter."
- Train driver in Scientific American
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:30:58 +0000
From: Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Joona I Palaste wrote:
>
> >> Here's a chance to correct (and flame) me. Last time I checked, a full circle
> >> is 3.1415926.... radians, that being pi number radians to equal 360 degrees.
> >> Time to add the conversion line to my little programme.
> >>
>
> > correct. Pi radians = one circle.
>
> Both of you are wrong. One circle equals 2*Pi radians.
That's not true either. ITYM *ALL* circles. :-)
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Now we know why Allchin was tweaked!
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:50:18 +1100
Ray Chason wrote:
>
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Solaris is also based on GPL software. There's more GPL'd code in Solaris
> >than there is in Windows.
>
> This ought to be verifiable, since the Solaris source is available
> under a "community source" license (which does not meet the Open
> Source Definition).
>
> You may be thinking of the BSD license; I've read that Solaris is a
> BSD derivative.
>
That was SunOS 4. SunOS 5 (Solaris) is SVR4.
Solaris 8 now includes many of the Gnu tools, which may be what Erik is
referring to. AFAIK all the GPL software distributed with Solaris 8 fully
complies with the terms of th GPL.
> --
> --------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
> PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
> Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Now we know why Allchin was tweaked!
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:55:16 +1100
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> Ray Chason wrote:
> >
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Solaris is also based on GPL software. There's more GPL'd code in Solaris
> > >than there is in Windows.
> >
> > This ought to be verifiable, since the Solaris source is available
> > under a "community source" license (which does not meet the Open
> > Source Definition).
> >
> > You may be thinking of the BSD license; I've read that Solaris is a
> > BSD derivative.
>
> Correct.
>
> Bill Joy, Sun's founder, was the grad student who was IN CHARGE
> of the BSD project.
>
I don't think Solaris has much BSD code left.
SunOS 4 was BSD (I believe it was the SPARC port of the older 68K code)
Solaris is very SVR4 compliant. I went to a Solaris internals course a
few years back (so I've forgotten most of it by now) which was run by
one of the Sun old-timers. He spent a large part of the course complaining
about the brain-dead System V things they'd had to use instead of their
much nicer BSD stuff. Not that he was biased or anything ;-)
> >
[ sigsnip[ ]
------------------------------
From: "Boris Dynin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:09:16 -0800
> It's hilarious that they carefully avoided the specweb
> results - I wonder why? could it be that the results
> would not support their agenda?
Check this one:
Tester System Name Result HTTP Version CPU #
Dell PowerEdge 8450/700 7300 IIS 5.0 and SWC 3.0 8
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2000q4/web99-20001211-00082.asc
> And oddly enough, a $6000 Linux server easily outperforms
> this suspiciously slow and overpriced "unix system", and also
> compares favorably with the $208,000 windows pc server farm.
And yor sources are...
>
> >
> > The Doculabs benchmark predicted that in real-world scenarios, UNIX
system
> > web servers will be able to process over 10,000 concurrent real-world
users
> > while maintaining an acceptable response time, whereas a Microsoft
Windows
> > DNA implementation will handle upwards of 100,000 simultaneous users.
Ten
> > times the number of users for about one third the system cost! Now
that's
> > scalability!
>
> Now that's hilarious, and if you believe those obviously
> bogus numbers, I've got a bridge I want to sell you, too.
I like your being funny. Does it come from lack of brain or lack of
knowledge (or maybe both)?
Boris
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:22:38 GMT
Boris Dynin wrote:
> > It's hilarious that they carefully avoided the specweb
> > results - I wonder why? could it be that the results
> > would not support their agenda?
> Check this one:
> Tester System Name Result HTTP Version CPU #
>
> Dell PowerEdge 8450/700 7300 IIS 5.0 and SWC 3.0 8
>
> http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/res2000q4/web99-20001211-00082.asc
Exactly - microsoft's "bet the farm", "benchmark buster"
configuration with the special web cache in front of iis
is badly outperformed by AIX, and can't even match the
performance of the free Red Hat Linux system.
Quite a different story from the "windows is 4 times
faster than the fastest Unix" crapola that was posted
here earlier.
> > And oddly enough, a $6000 Linux server easily outperforms
> > this suspiciously slow and overpriced "unix system", and also
> > compares favorably with the $208,000 windows pc server farm.
> And yor sources are...
I have a very low end server (Compaq Pentium Pro 200)
here at the office - I did some quick benchmark tests with
apache, mind you - not something really fast like zeus or
tux, just plain old apache on Red Hat 7.0,and I get 4200
requests per second from that tired old Linux box, over
a single100 mbit ethernet interface.
and yet the obsure "unix" system cited in the study was
suspiciously expensive and suspiciously slow - it could
not even manage the same performance as my tired old
ppro 200?
I mean, what in the world is a "progress system"?
I've been a Unix sys admin for some years and have
never even heard of that brand name, except as an
old database program.
I've worked at universities, ISPs and fortune 500
companies and done work for a number of small
businesses and non profits - I've seen and worked
with SGI Irix, SunOS 4, Solaris, NeXT, the BSDs, SCO,
UnixWare, HP-UX, Linux, AIX - but a "progress system"
is something I've never heard of. Could it be a brand
that was created just for the purpose of looking bad in
a benchmark against a windows pc?
> > Now that's hilarious, and if you believe those obviously
> > bogus numbers, I've got a bridge I want to sell you, too.
> I like your being funny. Does it come from lack of brain or lack of
> knowledge (or maybe both)?
No, my dear fellow, it comes from the credulity of the
windows advocates who are willing to beleive whatever
bs is handed out by the microsoft marketing department,
no matter how ridiculous.
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Vandervies)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 25 Feb 2001 08:57:13 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Richard Heathfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Joona I Palaste wrote:
>>
>> >> Here's a chance to correct (and flame) me. Last time I checked, a full circle
>> >> is 3.1415926.... radians, that being pi number radians to equal 360 degrees.
>> >> Time to add the conversion line to my little programme.
>> >>
>>
>> > correct. Pi radians = one circle.
>>
>> Both of you are wrong. One circle equals 2*Pi radians.
>
>That's not true either. ITYM *ALL* circles. :-)
...but only one at a time. n circles taken together makes 2*Pi*n radians.
dave
--
Dave Vandervies [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We always tell people NOT to mess with their headers, and what do you
do? You go and mess with your headers. Honestly, I despair sometimes.
--Richard Heathfield flames Dan Pop in comp.lang.c
------------------------------
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