Linux-Advocacy Digest #664, Volume #32 Tue, 6 Mar 01 00:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Time for a Windows reinstall! ("Paolo Ciambotti")
Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad! ("Paolo Ciambotti")
Re: Linux Server Shipments grew 144% in Asia-Pacific in 2000 ("Paolo Ciambotti")
Re: KDE or GNOME? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Cuts both ways ("Dan")
Re: KDE or GNOME? (Donn Miller)
Re: Cuts both ways (J Sloan)
Re: Linux growth underscores threat to Microsoft (J Sloan)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (.)
Re: How much does it take to make sound work in linux?? (J Sloan)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] (J Sloan)
Re: Cuts both ways (.)
The GPL if you are curious. (mlw)
Re: What does IQ measure? ("Quantum Leaper")
Re: Cuts both ways ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Cuts both ways ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Cuts both ways ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Chad Myers")
Re: GPL Like patents. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Re: GPL Like patents. ("Les Mikesell")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Time for a Windows reinstall!
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:19:44 -0800
Haha! That sounds _SO_ familiar. I have a 'cpio' archive of my Windoze
drive saved off under Linux. When MSFT takes a crap all over itself
(which is a regular occurrence), I just FDISK the damned thing and dump
the 'cpio' image back onto it. Never fails.
Linux: the ultimate Microshaft Windoze recovery tool.
------------------------------
From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's here! IBM's new Linux ad!
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:24:04 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> I would sooner die than use IE.
I take back every bad thing I ever said about your sig.
------------------------------
From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Server Shipments grew 144% in Asia-Pacific in 2000
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:34:46 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Adam
Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Since I live in the Pacific region that fact caught my eye in this very
> positive Wired article:
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,42156,00.html
>
> This is also good news for IBM:
>
> [It's Linux advertising blitz] "may be a sensible investment, since IBM
> attributes Big Blue's growing strength in the server hardware market
> directly to Linux.
>
> "In a report by industry analysts IDC, which is slated to be released on
> Monday, IBM is ranked as the No. 1 Intel-based server vendor in IDC's
> Asia Pacific/Japan region, a distinction that belonged to Compaq for the
> last three years."
I have a feeling that the U.S. information technology industry is going to be
blind-sided by
the infinitely more creative and adaptable eastern cultures much like the U.S. auto
industry of the seventies was blind-sided by the asian sub-compact
automobile.
But Windows XP has bigger fins and more chrome and gets fewer MPG!
Jeez, Redmond, can't you guys study history and learn anything?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: KDE or GNOME?
Date: 6 Mar 2001 02:38:50 GMT
On 05 Mar 2001 18:29:11 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
>Except that I prefer to make my code readable:
>
>object->method ( really really really long arg one,
> arg two,
> result of object2->method( sub arg one,
> sub arg two,
> sub arg three
> ),
> a fourth arg
> );
>
>In python, that is one huge line to fit in 80 columns.
So don't fit it in 80 columns:
object->method ( blah blah blah blah blah \
arg two, \
... \
)
The point is that it's simpler to require terminators to have multi-line
lines (oxymoron?) than the usual, because that way the default corresponds
with the way msot lines of code go.
BTW, this is one of the few nice features of bourne shell as a scripting
language.
>> This is news to me! How do you do exceptions in perl ?
>
>eval {} with Exception::Class
Cool. I'd never seen this.
>Perl hasn't been reference counted since 5.004. It changes a bunch
>even though the minor numbers don't go up like other languages.
I'm reading man perlobj in 5.6 and it looks like reference counts (though
it also has the additional benefit that it cleans up after threads properly)
>Perl is real programming. It can and does do everything that C/C++ do
>but with more simplicity and elegance.
... and less speed and less compile time checking.
My main problem with it for big projects (apart from speed critical ones,
that is) is the fact that it's too sloppy as a language. It doesn't have
real privacy, its syntax is even worse than that of C++ (a remarkable
achievment indeed!), it allows such attrocities as implicit conversions
between strings and integers (and when the conversions fail, they do so
silently)
>I saw the book at our local bookstore and thought about picking it
>up. I will now.
Or check out the available documentation (it's quite good)
>> What will perl 6 offer that makes it "more structured" ?
>
>For one, it's entirely written in C++ and will have first-class C++
>objects as plug-ins.
I didn't realise this. I heard about it, but I didn't hear about any
work being done. This would do a lot to deal with my performance
concerns (because I prefer C++ to C as a "fast" language)
>and will behave much more like Java with having static bindings
>available (that is up for debate still);
A ferocious debate indeed. I would like to see this, though I suspect
that some will furiously protest.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 04:30:48 +0200
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Been thinking along those lines myself. I despise Windows, I despise
> > Bill Gates, yet here I am helping people with their Windows problems
> > so they can go on using Windows and Bill Gates can go on making money
> > while I can go on offering free tech support so he doesn't have to
> > work quite so hard for his bucks.
>
> I admire those who offer their help for free out of, basically, a desire
> to do the right thing and help out your fellow man. I try to emulate
> that behaviour myself, whenever a question I can answer is asked.
>
> To worry that helping others might increase BG's wealth by another
> 0.00001% is unworthy of the original goal.
0.00001% of a billion is still 10K$US, BG has more than a mere billion.
------------------------------
From: "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:46:24 +1100
"Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> ATTN: Linux idiots
> he was joking.
Ohhhhhhhhh. The big bad warlord gets angry.
Ohhhhhhhhh.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:52:53 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE or GNOME?
Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
> Adam Warner wrote:
>
> > Hi Martigan,
> > GNOME has a superior architecture. KDE is more polished.
>
> That's GNOME propaganda.
>
> Of course, feel free to explain WHAT is better in GNOME's architecture.
I'm interesting in hearing objectively which is better between the two.
Objectively, we know that GNONE was forked off of the KDE project,
because at the time, there was some disagreement over the licensing of
Qt. I know that Qt's license has since been reworked.
Subjectively, I had previously thought that KDE had the better web
browser (Konqueror). Also, I thought that Konqueror was pretty amazing
at duplicating and even surpassing IE. However, now I'm seeing this
Nautilus thing, and it looks incredible.
As far as underlying architecture goes, I would have to say that Qt has
a much better API than Gtk. However, GNOME has put an additional
abstraction layer on top of Gtk, so that may ease the GNOME programming
a bit. Also, I would be more trusting of a large infrastructure that
had C++ as its foundation.
But, one thing is for sure: GNOME and KDE represent an enormous amount
of effort by volunteers, so I respect both projects. The way I see it,
both KDE and GNOME sort of cancel each other out, so now I'm going to
chill with Window Maker until I see what happens with these two.
IMO, I would go with GNOME, but I am more trusting of KDE's C++
foundation. (*Shrugs*)
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 03:02:43 GMT
Keldon Warlord 2000 wrote:
> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9813v7$ppj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >>This page supports a product which purports to run Linux apps on
> > >>Windows:
> > >>
> > >>http://neomueller.org/~isamu/line/
> > >
> > > Does it also emulate linux stability? <g>
> >
> > No, however, Micoros~1 have come up with a new innovation they call
> > stability in Win XP: it can stay up for more than 4 hours on the trot.
> >
> > I think they have filed a patent on this one :-)
> >
> > -Ed
> >
>
> ATTN: Linux idiots
> he was joking.
Alrighty then, I think it's time to killfile this dork.
Unlike Pete or flatfish, he has no redeeming quality -
only boring, nasty, tedious bs. And he even lacks
the sincerity of Chad, so off to the bozo bin with him!
plonk!
jjs
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth underscores threat to Microsoft
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 03:10:42 GMT
2 + 2 wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4979275.html
> >
> >"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has acknowledged that
> >Linux has become its No. 1 threat, and
> >the IDC numbers underscore that position.
> >Although the figures show that Windows shipments
> >increased 20 percent, Linux outpaced it with a 24
> >percent increase."
> >
> >What's weird about it is that, with Windows at
> >41%, and Linux at 27%, 68% of the server market is
> >running on PC OS's (more if you count Netware).
um no.
With Linux at 27% and "other Unix" at whatever it was,
it shows that Unix oses have a healthy share. I expect
the Unix figure to increase, if anything.
Unix OSes = Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, MacOS X, FreeBSD...
Non-Unix = dos, win31, win9x, win nt, novell, etc...
Hardware is orthogonal to the question of OS.
Unix often runs on the same hardware as PC oses,
but this does not make Unix a "pc os".
> >I guess it's a tribute to PC hardware makers and
> >network technology.
Laws of supply and demand does help the process.
Who'd have thought that the very same harware platform
that windows PCs use could also host powerful Unix servers?
In any case, microsoft's main argument that "unix hardware
is expensive" goes out the window, doesn't it?
jjs
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:14:26 +1300
> > I admire those who offer their help for free out of, basically, a desire
> > to do the right thing and help out your fellow man. I try to emulate
> > that behaviour myself, whenever a question I can answer is asked.
> >
> > To worry that helping others might increase BG's wealth by another
> > 0.00001% is unworthy of the original goal.
>
> 0.00001% of a billion is still 10K$US, BG has more than a mere billion.
To think, I anticipated this post, and actually chose to remove the
sentence that told you to imagine a very very small number in place of
the one I typed, because I didn't know exactly how much money Gates had,
and I didn't think anyone would pay more attention to the number than the
idea.
The amount of money BG makes directly off you (whoever) helping someone
who already (potentially illegally) has it installed is a pretty
intangible concept, so being literal really gets us nowhere. The point
is, the money is not as important as helping one another.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How much does it take to make sound work in linux??
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 03:14:07 GMT
You might try posting this to a technical mailing list -
Glitch wrote:
> #KUNDAN KUMAR# wrote:
>
> > Thanks...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adam Warner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Posted At: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:48 AM
> > Posted To: advocacy
> > Conversation: How much does it take to make sound work in linux??
> > Subject: Re: How much does it take to make sound work in linux??
> >
> >
> > Hi #KUNDAN KUMAR#,
> >
> >
> >> I have become frustrated and you are my last hope.Even though i am a
> >> newbie, i managed to install debian and upgrade my kernel to 2.4.1.
> >
> > But
> >
> >> after lots of tweaking, I am unable to get the sound working with good
> >> quality. I had LM 7.2 installed on my computer earlier and the card
> >
> > was
> >
> >> working fine.
> >
> >
> >> What I could get from the KDE control center was something like this:
> >> Yamaha DSXG PCI(YMF724F) o:YMFPCI at oxd5020000, irq 10 (DUPLEX)
> >
> > alias
> >
> >> sound-slot-0 snd-card-ymfpci post-install snd-card-ymfpci modprobe
> >> snd-pcm-oss
> >
> >
> > I have found the YMF724 works great with a 2.4.2 kernel. I didn't do
> > anything sound-specific except upgrade my kernel in my Redhat 7.0
> > install.
> > 2.4.1 had a lot of important bugs and it is highly recommended you
> > upgrade
> > (a data corruption bug was discovered).
> >
> > These are the sound options I have compiled in as "Y"es. Everything else
> > is "N":
> >
> > Sound Card Support Y
> >
> > OSS Sound Modules Y
> >
> > Yamaha YMF7xx PCI audio (native mode) Y
>
> where might this be in the kernel source? I have 2.4 and do not see the
> above as an option....
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 03:18:00 GMT
Jon Johanson wrote:
> "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Mig wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter K�hlmann wrote:
> > >
> > > What about a bet?
> > > Someone puts a machine on the net running SSH1 and Chad is given the
> task
> > > and permission to break in through the Internet.
> > >
> > > That should put an end to this silly discussion.
> >
> > Cool idea.
>
> Kinda like the windows2000test.com box which no one was able to crack or
> shutdown - guess we know that W2K is invulnerable therefore eh?
Ah, yes, the one where windows kept crashing, and microsoft
kept blaming it on "thunderstorms in the area"?
LOL!
jjs
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:19:56 +1300
> ATTN: Linux idiots
> he was joking.
Funnily enough, I don't see a spewing mountain of posts from all the
linux idiots, claiming what a ridiculous patent that is, or how this is
the latest MS takeover plot.
Maybe there aren't that many linux idiots?
Plenty of linux users, of course.
Hmm, checking the dictionary:
Linux Idiot: (n) One who, upon installing Linux without RTFM, decides to
return to an inferior operating system and bash that which they do not
understand.
See also: Windroid, Wintroll, Microsoft Lemmings.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The GPL if you are curious.
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:50:56 -0500
There has been much speculation on what rights and restrictions the GPL gives
and requires from you.
I submit that the GPL is a very fair and reasonable document, unlike what many
Winvocates seem to insist. Forget what people say. Forget what you have heard.
Read it for yourself at:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
Just remember, no rights are limited unless they are explicitly limited, and no
right is granted (above the rights you enjoy as a citizen) which is not
explicitly granted and legal.
The GPL is not the bull shit people make it out to be, it is a very sound and
progressive licensing scheme that makes sense.
--
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: What does IQ measure?
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:06:15 GMT
"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Quantum Leaper wrote:
> >
> > "JS PL" <js@plcom> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:3Txo6.50340$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > JS PL wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > But your IQ theory only applies to those in the 50 to 120 range.
> > > > > > Since I'm 160 I can see the obvious. There's no possible
monopoly
> > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > >
> > > > > Is your IQ scored in dog points?
> > > >
> > > > Do either of you know what an IQ test really measures? (Hint it not
how
> > > > smart you are...)
> > >
> > > If you don't know, look it up. (hint, you don't even need to get out
of
> > your
> > > chair)
> > >
> > Maybe trying to expand your pea size brain may help you understand. If
IQ
> > test really measured intelligence, try giving the IQ test to a foreigner
who
> > speaks the same langauge. See what happens....
>
> All you're proving is that giving a test to someone in a language
> in which they are not proficient produces innaccurate results.
>
> IQ-tests measure what psychologists call intelligence, which they
> represent with the symbol "g".
>
You mean like a Brit, a Canadian, Ozzy or American? They all speak
English, I guess your implying that only Americans can be proficient in
English?
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:15:14 -0800
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Keldon Warlord 2000 wrote:
>
> > "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9813v7$ppj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >>This page supports a product which purports to run Linux apps on
> > > >>Windows:
> > > >>
> > > >>http://neomueller.org/~isamu/line/
> > > >
> > > > Does it also emulate linux stability? <g>
> > >
> > > No, however, Micoros~1 have come up with a new innovation they call
> > > stability in Win XP: it can stay up for more than 4 hours on the trot.
> > >
> > > I think they have filed a patent on this one :-)
> > >
> > > -Ed
> > >
> >
> > ATTN: Linux idiots
> > he was joking.
>
> Alrighty then, I think it's time to killfile this dork.
>
> Unlike Pete or flatfish, he has no redeeming quality -
> only boring, nasty, tedious bs. And he even lacks
> the sincerity of Chad, so off to the bozo bin with him!
>
> plonk!
>
> jjs
>
same to you...PAL!
*plonk*
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:18:05 -0800
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > ATTN: Linux idiots
> > he was joking.
>
> Funnily enough, I don't see a spewing mountain of posts from all the
> linux idiots, claiming what a ridiculous patent that is, or how this is
> the latest MS takeover plot.
>
> Maybe there aren't that many linux idiots?
>
>
>
> Plenty of linux users, of course.
>
> Hmm, checking the dictionary:
>
> Linux Idiot: (n) One who, upon installing Linux without RTFM, decides to
> return to an inferior operating system and bash that which they do not
> understand.
> See also: Windroid, Wintroll, Microsoft Lemmings.
is that one of those "idiots for dummies: dictionary" dictionaries???
wanker.
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:19:52 -0800
"Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7bYo6.3645$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > ATTN: Linux idiots
> > he was joking.
>
> Ohhhhhhhhh. The big bad warlord gets angry.
> Ohhhhhhhhh.
>
>
oh, I aint angry. I'm just pointing it out to all of the Linux-losers that
still live in their mommy's basement.
(you know who you are...)
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:03:29 GMT
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chad Myers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sun, 04 Mar 2001 23:57:26 GMT
> <GDAo6.15430$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:02:08 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Nowhere in the cites you provided does it say that one can distribute
> >> >the copies one has made of the media.
> >> >
> >> ** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this
> >> material is distributed, without profit, for research and educational
> >> purposes only. ***
> >
> >Ok, for research and educational purposes, but not recreational
> >or entertainment purposes.
> >
> >Like I said, you still can't burn a copy of a CD for a friend legally.
> >The police aren't going to bust your door down, but technically
> >it's still illegal.
>
> Technically, nothing; it's illegal, period. It's clear that what
> Napster users are doing is NOT for research and educational purposes
> (except for news reporters checking on the service, perhaps, as they're
> presumably researching a story; as of 3/5, Napster is still breaking
> the law).
>
> Whether one gets caught, of course, is an issue. The same issue
> exists for Windows products duplicated in the USA (those duplicated
> overseas may have their own issues; China in particular is a problem
> as they don't really have copyright law AFAIK).
I agree. I'm sorry if I gave you a different impression.
I was merely being semantical.
If I burned you a copy of a music CD, in the grand scheme of the
cosmos, it wouldn't be a big deal.
If I set up a major web site or internet application to allow you
and 4 million other friends of mine to download that CD, THAT
would be a problem. =)
-c
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPL Like patents.
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:23:10 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Craig Kelley wrote:
> >
> > mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Encourage development by protecting the results of investment.
> > > Make public inventions so that industry can prosper.
> >
> > How about providing for free code so that *anyone* can prosper? The
> > GPL doesn't allow that because it is predjudiced against certain
> > classes of developers (intentionally).
>
> Ahh, and how would you prosper? By taking code you didn't write and don't
own,
> and charging money for it and NOT properly compensating the original
authors.
We all prosper when everyone is free to incorporate well-tested and
correctly interoperable code into everything they produce regardless
of the terms. If they don't they will almost certainly re-invent it
very badly and the bugs will affect everything else that tries to
interoperate with it.
> GPL prevents this, and rightfully so. If you want to use GPL code in this
way,
> you are welcome to contact the copyright holders and negotiate a deal
where you
> are allowed to use their code without the GPL status.
>
> If the code is not released, you would not have it, so just deal.
Anyone who actually believes this should be condemned to spending
the rest of their lives supporting a large network containing mostly
the first version of TCP that Microsoft wrote by themselves. I'm
very happy that they are allowed to use something that works
correctly instead in windows2000, and that most other product
vendors used the BSD base from the start. If it had been GPL'd
instead, we would still be trying to make the internet work.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 23:32:27 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snipped>
> The ideal UI should harness the strengths of both approaches,
> but making a new UI isn't easy and I don't expect to see any
> sort of ideal for a long time to come. As it stands, everybody
> has a lot of room for improvement.
That was what I loved about the AmigaOS, neither the GUI or the CLI had
proirity over the other, nor did one have greater focus over the other. They
both were well integrated, and complimented each other well...but that is a
different newsgroup. :>
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPL Like patents.
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:32:59 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > You'd rather that they re-wrote their own protocol that replaces
> > kerberos and doesn't work with other kerberos devices? Seems like
> > cutting off one's nose to spite the face to me.
>
> Yes. As it is Microsoft stole, yes I used that word, the work of others
and is
> trying to make their own standard based on the work of others. If it were
GPL,
> this wouldn't be possible.
This is exactly backwards any way you look at it. The real problem
with what Microsoft did is that they DID NOT duplicate the protocol
exactly so it ends up working fully only when you put it in control
as the server. And, they did not copy any code, so GPL would only
have made it even less likely that they would get it right (by forcing
them not to use the code instead of letting them choose to do it
wrong themselves anyway).
> > Linus' open stance on binary-only kernel modules allows us to use
> > Nvidia cards under Linux. Would the world be a better place if they
> > only worked under Windows? Probably not.
>
> When it comes to GPL, I am more aligned with Linus than I am with RMS.
Then your code should either have a modified GPL that explicitly
allows other libraries to be linked, or like the Linux kernel, have
a binary interface that is defined not to create derived works out of
things that use it.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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