Linux-Advocacy Digest #691, Volume #32 Wed, 7 Mar 01 19:13:04 EST
Contents:
Windows API (Was Re: Mircosoft Tax) ("David Brown")
Re: Microsoft screws itself again! (Bloody Viking)
Re: Microsoft screws itself again! (Bloody Viking)
Re: Linux Joke ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Microsoft screws itself again! (Bloody Viking)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (.)
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Help: Linux 6.0 install on laptop (Craig Kelley)
Re: Windows API (Was Re: Mircosoft Tax) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Moore's Law, continued... (Bloody Viking)
Re: "diversity" (Craig Kelley)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Craig Kelley)
Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Steve Mading)
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Steve Mading)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Do Windows developers settle? ("spicerun")
Re: Something Seemingly Simple. (Steve Mading)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Windows API (Was Re: Mircosoft Tax)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:54:27 +0100
Then we agree on the raw APIs of the basic system (Linux + X and Windows) -
both are unusable as they stand for making nice GUI programs (although Linux
API is fine for non-GUI stuff, while Windows API is unpleasant even for the
simplest of tasks).
There are nice libraries for Windows that make it much more usable for
developers - these are part of seperately purchased development tools. Thus
my claim - Windows by itself has no developement to speak of, and if you
count plain pre-compiled libraries without header files of any sort as
development tools (which I don't, but you seem to), then Windows comes with
minimal and highly developer-unfriendly tools.
Virtually all Linux distributions, on the other hand, come with a wide range
of development tools. There are a number of libraries and toolkits that sit
on top of X and make development much easier (such as Qt, gtk and TK) -
these are all included.
Since an OS can be partially judged by the state of its development tools,
and those of Linux far exceed Windows, it is difficult to argue that Windows
is "modern" in those terms. Indeed, Windows has taken a step backwards - at
least DOS used to come with QBasic (not the world's best development tool,
but good enough for making start-up menus and the like). With Win95 it was
an option hidden away on the CD, and with newer Windows it is missing
entirely.
Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:25:09 +0100, David Brown wrote:
>
>>My opinions on the Win32 API stand even without a comparison (my
>>understanding of APIs on Linux are that the Linux APIs themselves (e.g.,
>>file access, processes, memory management, etc.) are neat and consistent,
>>but programming raw X is a nightmare).
>
>Well that's sort of the problem. Until quite recently, Linux was fine
>until you wanted to put a user interface on your application.
>
>> I am not saying that the Win32 API
>>is necessarily worse than any others available, but there is no doubt that
>>it could have been vastly better.
>
>I see. I wasn't talking about just Win32, I was also referring to other
>APIs (such as MFC). I take your point that they don't ship the libraries
>with Windows (I thought they did). In any case, these APIs definitely
>make it easy to write user friendly applications for Windows. For a long
>time, no one really paid attention to this issue on Linux.
>
>Win32 itself isn't that pretty, as you suggest.
>
>>that let developers write user friendly apps, not the shared libraries
that
>>come with Windows. And given the similarity between Delphi on Windows and
>>Kylix on Linux,
>
>But how similar really ? The jury is out on that one (unless you've seen
>it and used it)
>
>> there is nothing special about the Win32 API - it is tools
>>like Delphi that let you develop programs.
>
>And APIs. BTW, Kylix IIRC is based on Qt which is also a very nice API.
>Without Qt, they'd either have to use something else, roll their own,
>or use X.
>
>--
>Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
>elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Microsoft screws itself again!
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:01:58 GMT
Ray Chason ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I seriously doubt J. Random Luser will tolerate water cooling in his
: computer. Consider how often car radiators spring leaks, and then
: consider the consequences when this happens in anything electronic.
That's why the watercool threshold is the de facto limit for the desktop. With
how unreliable PC hardware is already, consumers will (understandably) balk at
the thought.
: And then there's all that energy that the faster chips suck up, a
: serious problem for laptops and anything that needs a UPS.
Tell me about it! It would be a moore's law for UPS gear!
: Thus I give the Pentium architecture about five years to live. To
: get more speed, Intel either must stuff more and more circuits onto
: a chip, generating more and more heat, or just say the hell with it
: and move to Itanium.
And end the faster Pentiums. I'm sure they'll make pentiums, but as a
commodity chip as they make that "Itanium" chip for the servers. Sort of like
how the Zed80 is made for embedded systems and high-end calculators. But the
desktop plateau is bad news for our favourite software company to bash. Which
was the point of my posting.
: The Pentium instruction set will live on in emulation, of course, as
: the 68K set does on PowerPC Macs.
And commodity pentiums. Maybe they'll just make them more overclocker friendly
for that market. Maybe make the top smoother and flatter, and offer a
watercool kit for the daring... with no warranty.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Microsoft screws itself again!
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:05:41 GMT
Jakob Kosowski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: --
: Linux NEVER crashes unless you really fuck up.
I noticed you saw that line of mine. Since my postings are GNU, you have full
permission to use it and freely distribute it under the same licence. (:
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:12:11 +0000
> Why does the average windows user replace all his software everytime
> microsoft releases a new major version of their operating systems?
>
> Because the old software will run like shit.
And this is why the joke is on them: so does the new stuff.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Microsoft screws itself again!
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:13:51 GMT
Mike Martinet ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Actually, there's a thing called a Thermoelectric Cooler or TEC. It's a
: nifty device about the size of a chip that can easily fit on the back of
: a microprocessor. It runs current backwards through itself to remove
: heat which results in cooling. (I don't pretend to know how it *really*
: works, that's just the explanation I was given.) Stick it to a chip,
: strap a normal heatsink and fan on its back, feed it 12vdc and you'll
: effectively lower the surface temp of the chip dozens of degrees,
: depending on the initial heat, of course.
: Pretty cool! ;)
The overclocker community already know about peltier junctions and already use
it when they want some insane overclocking. After I posted the start of this
thread, I got curious and found the overclock newsgroup. Like my prediction,
they already use watercooling and watercooled peltier cooling for the craziest
designs. It's safe to say that the writing is on the wall, complete with
Pentium knock-offs like Thunderbird chips that do a GHZ with watercooling.
Check out alt.comp.hardware.overclocking and http://www.overclockers.com about
my too-late prediction. Most of them use Windows to play games on, probably
only becuse the best games are on Windows, and they have to o/c to get decent
performance. Pretty sad actually that people have to resort to this becuse of
bloatware.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:14:55 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <983v25$1ql$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>> > Well, it defaults to postscript, which is what I printed the first time,
>> > until I selected The Gimp's EPSON driver.
>>
>> Save it. Go and live in ignorance for all I care. I'm not going to
>> explain the linux printing system to you again. Read some of my previous
>> posts.
> Your replies detailed a great deal but answered the wrong question.
> My whole point was that if I select a specific printer in installation,
> then everything else should follow suit. The Gimp did not. Your
> explanations about postscript were irrelevant.
Actually they have everything to do with it. You simply do not
understand the gimp, postscript OR printing under linux at all.
I see youre still blaming other people for your own extreme idiocy,
pete.
And yet there are mounds of people still trying desparately to
explain things to you in very small words so that you can be sure
to understand, yet for some reason, you never actually understand.
EVERYONE isnt wrong, pete. You are.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:18:16 +0000
> My opinions on the Win32 API stand even without a comparison (my
> understanding of APIs on Linux are that the Linux APIs themselves (e.g.,
> file access, processes, memory management, etc.) are neat and
> consistent, but programming raw X is a nightmare). I am not saying that
> the Win32 API is necessarily worse than any others available, but there
> is no doubt that it could have been vastly better.
What do you mean by raw X? socket calls or xlib calls :-)
Seriously, programming in raw X isn't always a barrel of laughs
(especially when colours are involved, and you're aiming for device
independence), but it's often not too bad. I have found it much easier
than Win32 graphics.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help: Linux 6.0 install on laptop
Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:22:42 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert) writes:
> I purchased a copy of "Red Hat Linux 6.0 - Unleashed" and have been
> unable to install this O/S on my laptop even though I've successfully
> installed it on my desktop. I've followed all of the possible
> installation instructions from the book. Part of the problem is that
> I have to use a swappable CD and Floppy drive on my laptop and cannot
> use both simultaneously. The instructions in the book indicate that I
> can install directly from the CD using the 'linux ks' or 'expert'
> commands. Neither of these worked for me.
>
> My system information is:
> Current O/S - Win 98
> Intel celeron processor
> 128mb ram
> 1gb partition set up for Linux
>
> I would appreciate any and all assistance/advice.
Go into the BIOS or Setup when your computer boots (usually by
pressing some Function Key or Delete when prompted to do so). Tell it
to boot from CD and restart the computer with the RedHat CD in the
drive.
You may also wish to consider ordering a RedHat 7 CD, as it contains
better laptop support (especially if you use USB).
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a PCI slot on your ATX videoboard.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows API (Was Re: Mircosoft Tax)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:15:53 +0200
"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:986e6q$dd6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Since an OS can be partially judged by the state of its development tools,
> and those of Linux far exceed Windows, it is difficult to argue that
Windows
> is "modern" in those terms
Disregarding everything else you said, while I sort of agree on the general
statement (OS can be judged by the development tools). I disagree with your
interaption to it, since you seem to think that this statement include only
development tools that come bundled with the OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Moore's Law, continued...
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:25:48 GMT
Mike ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[snip good technical explanation]
I said the same thing in layman terms in my "computing power to peak SOON"
posting where I mention the fundamental cooling problem ending the fun n'
games long before a chip drains 10KW and turns it into heat. 40,000BTU/hr per
square inch is QUITE a heat flux! Even if you had the liquid helium, the temp
gradient in the wafer will more than crack it.
Even now with the peltier user overclockers, they have dew and frost problems
as they cool the CPU below room temp. The computer would have to be in a
chamber of extreme low humidity air, something the overclock community havn't
tried yet. Either that, or you get to defrost it like an old refrigerator.
: And, it just might keep Moore's Law running for a few more years.
But the end is in sight.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "diversity"
Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:25:54 -0700
"David L. Nicol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My university has just distributed a call for "diversiity projects."
>
> There is a modest amount of grant money available for projects that
> help nurture diversity, in any form. The eords "..but not limited
> to..." appear in the list of axes on which diversity is to be
> recognized.
>
> Since all of the university computer labs here run monopoly operating
> systems, I am imagining myself writing a proposal to increase diversity
> on the campus by esatblishing dual-boot machines in every lab.
>
> Thus this note to comp.os.linux.advocacy: Has anyone else done such
> a thing, proposing to increase Diversity by installing Linux, and how
> did it go? May I copy phrases from your documentation?
:) Right on!
We've done plenty of that over here, but never with diversity grant
money to do it.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a PCI slot on your ATX videoboard.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: 07 Mar 2001 16:27:15 -0700
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In article <983v25$1ql$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > > Well, it defaults to postscript, which is what I printed the first time,
> > > until I selected The Gimp's EPSON driver.
> >
> > Save it. Go and live in ignorance for all I care. I'm not going to
> > explain the linux printing system to you again. Read some of my previous
> > posts.
>
> Your replies detailed a great deal but answered the wrong question.
>
> My whole point was that if I select a specific printer in installation,
> then everything else should follow suit. The Gimp did not. Your
> explanations about postscript were irrelevant.
And has been noted *dozens* of times, some Windows applications do the
exact same thing.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a PCI slot on your ATX videoboard.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:27:02 +0000
>> If I give you my account details, will you drop 30 quid in it? After
>> all, it's not much is it?
>
> Certainly. What do I get in return?
Absoloutely nothing of any use whatsoever.
How about a rusty old bike wheel?
Now let me guess. You're not willing to pay me �30 for something utterly
useless are you. Bearing this thought in mind, reread the thread.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:36:30 +0000
>> > Well, it defaults to postscript, which is what I printed the first
>> > time,
>> > until I selected The Gimp's EPSON driver.
>>
>> Save it. Go and live in ignorance for all I care. I'm not going to
>> explain the linux printing system to you again. Read some of my
>> previous posts.
>
> Your replies detailed a great deal but answered the wrong question.
>
> My whole point was that if I select a specific printer in installation,
> then everything else should follow suit. The Gimp did not. Your
> explanations about postscript were irrelevant.
Your claims included but were not limited to that. In your ignorance, you
continued to make many erroneous claims about the printing system under
Linux. I attempted to correct these mistakes, but you refused to listen
and carried on spouting the same old crap over and over and over again.
Since you started making erroneous claims, my explanations were relavent.
If you look back, that is where and why I joined the thread.
I'm not bored of repeating myself. For some reason, you can not accept or
will not accept that every app should print postscript by default
(see your quoted post at the top). I honestly have no idea why, but now
I'm past caring. I think I made a reasonable attempt to inform you what
was going on, but you either poked fun at it
\begin{quote}
Linux...
The operating system that thinks every printer is a postscript one...
\end{quote}
or simply ignored it. Mabey, finally, as a result of this post, you will
have picked up some level of understanding. I hope so, but I'm not
optimistic.
-Ed
PS I freely admit that marking all data as raw was is stupid thing to do.
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:37:53 +0000
>> Beacus in order to install apps on 'doze you have to write to the
>> registry (in most cases). No sane admin would allow any idiot to do
>> that. Under *nix, you don't have to do that, since most apps will
>> install as non admin.
>>
>> So it is NT's fault for having a buggered system
>
> Only if you consider writing to the registry (and probably to a users
> private space) a dangerous operation. Mostly it isn't.
You can really bugger up an NT system by writing crap to the registry.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:35:34 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Austin Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On 6 Mar 2001, Steve Mading wrote:
:> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Austin Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>: On 6 Mar 2001, Steve Mading wrote:
:>:> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>:>: No. They only have the right to distribute it with strings
:>:>: attached. The software must be redistributed under their license. If
:>:>: the software is library software, the GPL requires work that so much
:>:>: as links dynamically to it to be released under the GPL (or so RMS
:>:>: says. Whether such a draconian condition is enforceable remains to
:>:>: be seen)
:>:> You are deliberately not mentioning the existence of the LGPL, which does
:>:> NOT have that requirement. Sure, a library released under GPL would
:>:> have that requirement, but this doesn't matter given that libraries
:>:> are typically released under LGPL not GPL.
:>: Not necessarily true, Mr Mading. First, there are a number of GPLed
:>: Java classes out there. In Java, *everything* is a library. How does
:>: RMS's interpretation of library foolishness square with this? Second,
:>: there is at least one significant library under the GPL and not the
:>: LGPL.
:> Were you planning on mentioning what it is?
: readline <http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/readline/rltop.html>, and GNU MP
: (GMP) <http://www.gnu.org/software/gmp/gmp.html>. That's two examples.
We are apparently using different dictionaries, because I don't
consider that "signifigant". Readline, for example, is trivial
to re-implement.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:38:37 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Austin Ziegler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Tim Hanson wrote:
:> Austin Ziegler wrote:
:>> On 6 Mar 2001, Steve Mading wrote:
:>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>>>: No. They only have the right to distribute it with strings
:>>>: attached. The software must be redistributed under their license. If
:>>>: the software is library software, the GPL requires work that so much
:>>>: as links dynamically to it to be released under the GPL (or so RMS
:>>>: says. Whether such a draconian condition is enforceable remains to
:>>>: be seen)
:>>> You are deliberately not mentioning the existence of the LGPL, which does
:>>> NOT have that requirement. Sure, a library released under GPL would
:>>> have that requirement, but this doesn't matter given that libraries
:>>> are typically released under LGPL not GPL.
:>> Not necessarily true, Mr Mading. First, there are a number of GPLed
:>> Java classes out there. In Java, *everything* is a library. How does
:>> RMS's interpretation of library foolishness square with this? Second,
:>> there is at least one significant library under the GPL and not the
:>> LGPL. Third, RMS himself has been arguing recently that libraries
:>> should be under the GPL and not the LGPL -- and has renamed the LGPL
:>> from the "Library GPL" to the "Lesser GPL" in accordance with this
:>> change of mind.
:> So? He doesn't rule the software business. He didn't change his mind;
:> he's never liked the LGPL. His isn't the last word on it, either.
: *sigh* In my second response to Mr Mading, I point out that Stallman
: can and will change the terms of the LGPL and people won't have a lot
: of choice about the matter because they've released the code with the
: phrase "LGPL version 1 or later..." because they assume that the FSF
: will keep the spirit in mind.
"or later", to me doesn't sound strong enough to mean "any later
versions will supercede version 1.0." If someone says "A or B",
then A, by itself, still qualifies.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:40:21 +0000
>> > I'd hardly call the output of a thermometer "cryptic".
>>
>> Eh? What's self-explanatory about a thermometer?
>
> Oh well, I can't help you then...
So the first time you saw a thermometer as a kid, you figured it out with
no ouside help. I'm not sure I believe you.
>> > No it's just cryptic.
>>
>> Look, "cryptic" means: "something you don't understand". How in the
>> name of Seven Hells can _anything_ be cryptic if you understand it?
>
> From the "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English":
>
> cryptic: secret; with a hidden meaning, or something not easily seen.
>
> "something not easily seen" is what I'm referring to.
Once you have learnt it, how can it be not easily seen?
>> If I were to set technical excellence as a goal for an application of
>> mine, success would only be achieved if it outperformed every other
>> similar application on the market.
>
> Unfortunately, technically excellent things are rarely successful.
A fine explanation for the success of Windows.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:41:03 +0000
>> > It's around �30 or less. That's a big expense is it?
>>
>> It is is you don't want it, having an alternative operating system
>> already on hand you want installed.
>>
>> You're arguments are getting short and weak.
>
> You must be pretty poor if �30 is too much.
OK, then. Send me �30.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Do Windows developers settle?
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:01:36 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Donn Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've just started using Cygwin32. It's pretty neat. I opted to install
> the man pages, and now I'm in heaven. Of course, man, groff, and less
> run really slow because of the unix emulation layer. I imagine Cygwin
> has a wrapper around the Windows socket calls, so it may be possible to
> use standard nix socket calls on Windows this way. Did you try Cygwin?
> It's nice, but sluggish, on Win ME. Don't know what it's like on Win
> 2000 / NT 4.0.
>
I use Cygwin32 and the bash shell a lot when I'm on the 'work' NT system.
Only disappointment I see is that Cygwin went the .dll route and
encapsulated a lot of the commands through those .dlls. Fortunately I was
able to recompile make and gcc through the Windows command line C compiler
(there really is one included in the Visual-C suite) to make a native .exe
file, and that sped things up considerably for me (Not to mention running
more up-to-date makes and gcc compilers).
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Something Seemingly Simple.
Date: 7 Mar 2001 23:58:28 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: news:983k3e$him$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
:> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> :> That's a bit like saying "You are allowed
:> :> to drive as fast as you feel like in the US", without mentioning the
:> :> qualifier "In Montana, during the daylight."
:>
:>
:> : Csn you? I sem to remember speed limits there?
:>
:> My example may be out of date. When the federal government recently
:> allowed states to set their own speed limits on some highways (removing
:> the 65 mph federal limit), Montana, being a state with lots of open
:> empty land, removed the speed limit altogether on some highways. That
:> was a few years ago. I haven't kept up to date on what has happened
:> since then.
:>
: They set the speed limit to 75. Their roads aren't all that great for any
: higher speeds.
Okay, then. Change my example to "It's like saying you are allowed
to drive 75 mph in the US", when this is really only true in limited
areas of the US.
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