Linux-Advocacy Digest #432, Volume #33 Sat, 7 Apr 01 11:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Chad Everett)
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? (Bob Hauck)
Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin (Bob Hauck)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) (Chad Everett)
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? ("JS PL")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:33:04 -0400
Dave Martel wrote:
>
> On 7 Apr 2001 06:52:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) wrote:
>
> >The Slack/BSD method offers the best
> >flexibility but with the caveat of making the install harder for new users
> >with non-flaky computers. If your computer is flaky, the more difficult
> >install is vastly better than the install made impossible due to bad hardware.
>
> Plus there's the matter of control. I despise the Windows approach to
> applications installation, where applications can tromp all over your
> system with neither notification nor permission for their actions and
> usually leaving no record of what they've done.
>
> RPM isn't nearly as bad but it still doesn't provide enough control to
> suit me. Even so, I'd give in and use RPM on the more complex packages
> if it weren't an all-or-nothing system. (All-or-nothing meaning that
> you have to use RPM for _all_ your software installations, or it can't
> track what's been installed for purposes of dependency-checking)
rpm --list somefile.rpm
will tell you exactly where the files of an RPM file will be placed.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:37:52 -0400
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) writes:
>
> > On 05 Apr 2001 09:38:42 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Of course not, but at least republicans go after Microsoft with the
> > >intent of restoring a free market, and not with some loony class-war
> > >redistribution of wealth fanaticism.
> >
> > No, that fanaticism would result in selling off Microsoft and giving
> > the money to the poor. As opposed to the loony Republican turn the
> > country into an corporate oligarchy fanaticism.
>
> Damn, you figured me out. The reason I use Linux is to build my
> secret empire of corporate support to suppress the open source
> developers. Not because it's good. Not because it allows me the
> freedom of personal discretion in our network. No, nothing so
> reasonable as that.
>
> Clue: Selling off Microsoft entirely would eliminate 27,000 jobs
> directly and countless other thousands indirectly.
Wrong. New jobs would spring up to fill the void. The difference
is...by migrating to a new platform, productivity for EVERYBODY
would be reased significantly
> They need to halt
> their predatorial conduct, or be placed in a situation in which they
> are unable to wield a monopoly club -- but they should not be sold off
> (who would buy it? Time/Warner? Hmmmm.)
They should be broken up into 3+ corporations...where the OS company
has no direct interest in what apps are run on it...and the apps
company(ies) have no interest in the success of one OS or another.
>
> I won't even get into the question of who the poor are, how they are
> going to get this money (government lottery?), and how you are going
> to prove that they will do something *more* constructive with it than
> Microsoft is doing.
Personally, I don't give a fuck about the economic distress of anybody
who invests in Mafia$oft....getting fucked economically is a fitting
reward for anybody who invests in a criminal organization.
>
> --
> It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 7 Apr 2001 08:34:08 -0600
On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 13:57:48 GMT, WGAF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [-snip-]
>
>Which is understandable. To develop a quality distro will cost money and it
>needs to be recovered, otherwise the distro will disappear. The point is
>that it won't be long when the Linux pricing will go by licensing the
>distros for corporation based upon the number of installation. Take for
>example Caldera's Tarantella Express, 5 user license for $835.00. As time
>passes by I wouldn't be surprised that even desktop versions will need to be
>licensed also. Yes, the Linux kernel and the GNU part of the distros will be
>free, but when the company wraps some proprietery code around them, then
>they can license it and won't need to make it available for free..
>
>
Maybe, big maybe, I see only one strong company who is switching from
service based revenue to a licensing revenue based on linux. Even
if things go the way you predict, the beauty of GNU/Linux is that
the same OS will still be available for those who want with no
licensing at all.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 14:43:35 GMT
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:54:52 -0400, JS PL <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
>"667 Neighbor of the Beast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> During the trial it was made clear that MS frequently offered nearly
>> free server software for ISP's if they promised to get at least 75% of
>> their customers to use IE.
>
>I don't remember that being brought up at the MS lynchi....err...trial.
He's confused. They offered ISP's various incentives if they gave IE
to 75% of their users, but server software wasn't part of that. One
incentive was free "setup builder" kits that enabled the ISP to create
a customized version of IE that would automatically dial their system.
Netscape offered this for a couple thousand dollars. They also offered
various kinds of free advertising including placement on the MS web
site and the Windows desktop for bigger ISP's. Later, the deal was
changed to require the ISP to use two IE-specific features on their web
site.
This *was* brought up at the trial. I posted a reference a month or
two ago, am too lazy to look it up now. I was discussing this with
Erik Funkenbusch if you want to look it up.
They did also sent out lots of free "trial versions" of NT server
products and cut-rate pricing for ISP's willing to convert. I don't
know what percentage was required because I ignored these offers since
at the time NT sucked as an Internet server. I don't think this was
brought up at the trial though.
> It sounds like bullshit. An ISP can't "promise to get" 75% of their
> customers to use anything!
Well, yeah. They can refuse to support anything else though. However,
one of the emails brought into evidence at the trial was an MS executive
complaining that those darn ISP's just didn't care about Microsoft's
agenda and were letting people use whatever they wanted in spite of the
contracts MS got them to sign. So maybe they aren't so smart after all.
Anyway, MS finally figured that out and tried other schemes, such as the
"use 2 IE-specific features" gag.
> But suppose microsoft actually did give away their OS and server software,
> SO WHAT!! Who's business is it?
There are laws on the books against "dumping" in order to drive your
competition out of business. Which was exactly what MS was trying to do
to Netscape.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: "The Linux Desktop", by T. Max Devlin
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 14:43:33 GMT
On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:41:17 GMT, Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>To get the full benefit of rpm, you must use rpm
>exclusively, which is unrealistic, and probably
>impossible in the long run. Sooner or later, for
But there are simple ways to simulate it.
>one reason or another, you will have to install
>from tarballed sources. After you do this often
>enough, you'll screw up rpm's dependencies, and
>you'll be relying on --nodeps.
Not if you put your tarballed sources into /usr/local. I use an RPM
distro (Caldera), and my personal policy is to use RPM to manage what
comes from Caldera, commercial apps that require it, and major packages
like KDE that are "blessed" by Caldera or at least have Caldera-
specific versions. Everything else gets built from source and
installed in /usr/local, which is on a separate partition. If I need to
upgrade something that was installed by RPM and there is no new RPM, I
remove the old one and then install to /usr/local as if it were a
foreign package.
This scheme pretty much eliminates the need for --nodeps, and makes
upgrading a _lot_ easier since a reinstall will leave /usr/local alone
if it is a separate partition. An upgrade consists of backing up /home,
/usr/local, and /etc, reinstalling, and then re-applying customizations
to /etc. The only time I use --nodeps is if I forget and upgrade KDE in
the wrong order.
>Undoubtedly the best package management system
>is FreeBSD's.
FreeBSD's and Debian's systems are better because of two main
attributes. First, they cover so many packages that the typical user
is not forced to go "outside the system" very much. Second, there
aren't multiple variants as there are with RPM-based systems. If there
is ever a Linux Standard Base, the second thing will be much less of an
issue.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:42:07 -0400
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> <snype>
> > That would be horrible. First of all, it gives the biggest parties
> > more money to maintain their strangle-hold on politics. Secondly, it
> > wouldn't address the super-soft money that is silently spent by the
> > mass media on their candidates of choice. Thirdly, it abridges our
> > freedom of speech by masking what we can say (our supreme court has
> > ruled that money is speech).
> Well, for example, we have 7 parties in parliament (National, Act, United,
> New Zealand First, Greens, Alliance, Labour), the current government is made
> up of an Alliance, Labour and Greens (same type of party as the one in
> Germany) coalition. The Greens at the last election came from no-where to
> holding the balance of power in the coalition. Also, another reason why
> these parties do get in is because there is a +90% turnout on election
> night, which also helps small parties to get into parliament.
Actually not. small turnouts mean a higher fanatic/moderate ratio
at the polls.
> A MMP system
> would be a viable alternative to the system currently being used in the US.
> As for the president, the electral college has to be the biggest co-jobs
> since Microsoft.
Not at all. The United States is a REPUBLIC. As such, the electoral
college is a REPUBLIC-style method for electing the President.
Do the individual citizens of the US, Canada, and the various European
countries vote for who will head up NATO?
Of course not...it's done by representatives from each of the several
member nation-states.
Similarly, the President of the United States is elected by representatives
of the several united states. Actually, there's nothing in the constitution
which mandates that the general citizenry even get a vote. A state could,
if it chose, allow the legislature do to that.
> Presidents should be voted in on the number of votes they
> receive, thus, instead of a small, hicks-ville state holding the country to
> ransom.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:45:15 -0400
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Hello? How come their (Republicans) whole campaign centred around ensuring
> > > Microsoft got off with a slap on the wrist?
> >
> > Evidence please.
> >
> > > Also, what about the incredibly generous bribe, sorry, "Donation" to
> > > ensure that "the DOJ doesn't ruin the tech sector", aka, split
> > > Microsoft up.
> >
> > Evidence please.
> >
> > The facts are:
> >
> > 1) A republican senator started the trial
>
> True, but who was, unfortunately, under questionable
> motive given that Novell was, at the time, a large
> corporation in Utah. I read an article from John C. Dvorak
> around the beginning of this where he mentioned Orin as
> "Senator Orin Hatch (R-Novell)" which is very true.
Protecting a company in your state from the ILLEGAL CONDUCT
of another corporation is a "questionable motive" now?
I suppose defending your girlfriend from a rapist is
a "questionable motive" too, right...
>
> >
> > 2) A republican-appointed judge presided over the trial
> >
> > 3) Many of the secondary states' attourney generals are republican
> >
> > To say anything else is a lie.
>
> -c
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 7 Apr 2001 08:49:39 -0600
On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:42:35 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
>I dunno... I really can't trust anything in the bible. Especially the
>King James version. After all, wasn't King James a pedophile?
>
You probably think cause it's called that "King James Bible" that King
James actually wrote it himself. Newsflash: Mr. Brittanica did not
write the Encyclopedia Brittanica.
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:00:03 -0400
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 23:54:52 -0400, JS PL <jspl@jsplom> wrote:
> >"667 Neighbor of the Beast" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >> During the trial it was made clear that MS frequently offered nearly
> >> free server software for ISP's if they promised to get at least 75% of
> >> their customers to use IE.
> >
> >I don't remember that being brought up at the MS lynchi....err...trial.
>
> He's confused. They offered ISP's various incentives if they gave IE
> to 75% of their users, but server software wasn't part of that. One
> incentive was free "setup builder" kits that enabled the ISP to create
> a customized version of IE that would automatically dial their system.
> Netscape offered this for a couple thousand dollars. They also offered
> various kinds of free advertising including placement on the MS web
> site and the Windows desktop for bigger ISP's. Later, the deal was
> changed to require the ISP to use two IE-specific features on their web
> site.
>
> This *was* brought up at the trial. I posted a reference a month or
> two ago, am too lazy to look it up now. I was discussing this with
> Erik Funkenbusch if you want to look it up.
>
> They did also sent out lots of free "trial versions" of NT server
> products and cut-rate pricing for ISP's willing to convert. I don't
> know what percentage was required because I ignored these offers since
> at the time NT sucked as an Internet server. I don't think this was
> brought up at the trial though.
>
>
> > It sounds like bullshit. An ISP can't "promise to get" 75% of their
> > customers to use anything!
>
> Well, yeah. They can refuse to support anything else though. However,
> one of the emails brought into evidence at the trial was an MS executive
> complaining that those darn ISP's just didn't care about Microsoft's
> agenda and were letting people use whatever they wanted in spite of the
> contracts MS got them to sign. So maybe they aren't so smart after all.
>
> Anyway, MS finally figured that out and tried other schemes, such as the
> "use 2 IE-specific features" gag.
>
>
> > But suppose microsoft actually did give away their OS and server
software,
> > SO WHAT!! Who's business is it?
>
> There are laws on the books against "dumping" in order to drive your
> competition out of business. Which was exactly what MS was trying to do
> to Netscape.
Nothing you have described is illegal. They can send out as many trial
versions as they like. In case you haven't noticed, that happens alot in the
software industry.
That's NOT what "dumping" is. Dumping is selling goods abroad for less than
you charge in your domestic market. And dumping is most often associated
with physical goods (like steel, wheat, etc...) , not software which can be
duplicated to infinity at almost no cost.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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