Linux-Advocacy Digest #599, Volume #33 Sat, 14 Apr 01 05:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Something cool in gcc ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Things Linux can't do! (GreyCloud)
Re: Something cool in gcc ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: To Eric FunkenBush ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a (GreyCloud)
Microsoft: Closed source is more secure ("Adam Warner")
Re: Linux + PostgreSQL + Apache + JDBC + Tomcat JSP / Servlets: Ready for prime
time? (Andres Soolo)
Re: To Eric FunkenBush ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: there's always a bigger fool ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (Tim Hanson)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (Tim Hanson)
Re: Something cool in gcc ("Tom Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:11:31 -0500
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I did something in gcc, that I thought would make the compiler barf, to
prove a
> point. Instead of proving my point it would not work, it worked. Wow! this
is a
> great feature of gcc.
>
> 1 #include <unistd.h>
> 2 #include <string.h>
> 3 #include <stdio.h>
> 4 void function(char *str1, char *str2)
> 5 {
> 6 int cb = strlen(str1)+strlen(str2)+1;
> 7 char str[cb];
> 8 strcpy(str,str1);
> 9 strcat(str,str2);
> 10 printf("%s\n", str);
> 11 }
>
> It isn't standard C/C++ but it could certainly save a malloc or two here
and
> there.
You think it's cool that a compiler violates the C++ standard without even a
warning? What if you're trying to write compliant code?
In any event, I think this may be an optimization. C++ allows you to use
constant variables as array declarations, since you're not changing the
value of cb, it is probably optimizing it to a const value.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Things Linux can't do!
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:13:11 -0700
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:48:57 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Donn Miller wrote:
> >>
> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Donn Miller wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Of course X is capable of crashing a system, because it runs as root,
> >> > > and accesses ports as root.
> >> >
> >> > Only if you're stupid enough to login as root.
> >>
> >> Actually, X always runs as root, even if you don't start X as root. If
> >> you use startx to start X, then either X is run as suid root (bad), or a
> >> wrapper (such as Xwrapper) executes the X server for you as root. xdm
> >> also starts the X server as root.
> >>
> >> Do
> >>
> >> $ ps axcu | grep X
> >>
> >> on your system and see what I mean.
> >
> >I had to use a similar ps... no root process for Xsun.
> >Its under the user that logged in.
> >X does not run as root in UNIX.
> >
>
> Minor difference on Solaris. X is started by root with
> dtlogin which spawns a X as the authenticated user.
>
> root 269 0.0 1.0 5040 2336 ? S Mar 26 0:00 /usr/dt/bin/dtlogin
>-daemon -server /etc/Xservers
> root 273 0.0 1.1 5416 2632 ? S Mar 26 0:00 dtlogin <:0>
>-daemon -server /etc/Xservers
I'm still breaking into Suns O/S. So much to learn... I've purchased all
of the Motif books by O'Reilley and a few from Sun. UNIX is so much
different from VMS. I enjoy both of them. One thing is for certain...
no BSODS from either of them.
Thats what happens when ya retire in 93, then get married, and finally
realize that I'm missing out on things. Doing catch up.
:-)
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:15:27 -0500
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Yea, it is freaky. I always wondered why the compilers never did this, now
I
> see that some (certainly not all) do. The error I get in MS-C/C++ and gcc
with
> ansi and pedantic defined, is that ansi forbids this, but:
>
> int len = strlen(string)+1;
> #ifdef GCC
> char var[len];
> #endif
> char *var = malloc(len);
> #endif
>
> I can see this making some kick-ass fast code.
Why don't you instead, write standard C++ like this:
const int len = strlen(string)+1;
char var[len];
Much easier and fully standard conforming.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:24:16 -0500
Your example uses templates. That is most likely the issue, not the MI. VC
is a pre-standard compiler, and as such cannot be expected to conform to a
standard that did not exist when it was written.
I'll compile them and see.
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I've found the programs in the book "C++ Primer Plus" by Stephen Prata.
>
> See attached source code.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:26:28 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3sxB6.13892$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Roy Culley wrote:
>
> > Pete appears to be the LCD of cumputer users. Linux
> > distributers/developers should use him as a beta tester. If it works for
> > Pete then it will work for anyone.
>
> 8) sounds right to me!
You do thrive on abuse, don't you Pete? <g>
--
Tom Wilson
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:26:40 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:uLqB6.13531$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Everett wrote:
>
> > Peter's problems was with DHCP and TWO network cards in his one
> > box. I would like a show of hands. How many people have
> > TWO network cards in their Windows machine with each card using DHCP
> > for configuration? OK, now, how many of you people with two network
> > cards in your Windows machine using DHCP for configuration had it
> > "just work" automatically with not manual configuration at all?
> > If you lie and raise your hand.......
>
> Oh boy. I have two cards. One is DHCP. One is a static address. This works
> FLAWLESSLY on Windows. It's barf time with BOTH Mandrake 7.2 and SuSE 7.1.
Hi Pete. Long time no type.
How the hell did you manage to screw up this time?
(Have run a similar NIC configuration under SuSE 7.0 with no difficulty)
--
Tom Wilson
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:29:59 -0700
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:25:08 -0400
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> wrote
> > >> on Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:59:21 -0400
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >> >WesTralia wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > One which has the full overhead of a function call, including
> > >> >> > the overhead of pushing the CPU state onto the stack, and
> > >> >> > recovering it at the end.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> "pushing the CPU state onto the stack"
> > >> >>
> > >> >> OK genius, explain what you mean!
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >Pushing all data registers, pointers, and the program counter
> > >> >onto the stack.
> > >> >
> > >> >What did YOU think it means?
> > >>
> > >> Pointers? What pointers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Stack pointer
> >
> > Pushing the stack pointer on the stack seems to me rather pointless... :-)
> >
> > >Frame pointer
> >
> > Yes, that's a valid one. Of course, that's usually in a register.
> > (Side point: Oh gosh the VAX was elegant, from a machine language
> > point of view. Am I spoiled rotten? :-) )
>
> Yes, all of us who programmed VAXes were spoiled.
>
> I'm thinking of writing a VAX emulator.
I think one is already out...
http://www.softresint.com/softresint/charon-vax/downloads.htm
>
> >
> > >Heap Pointer.
> >
> > A heap pointer needn't be saved; it's part of process address space.
> > Even if it is, it's just another register.
> >
> > >Data Segment pointer
> >
> > Ditto. (Maybe on a pre-VMpage system, though, like System7 on a
> > PDP 11/70. But that's positively *ancient*. :-) )
>
> If it's Intel, it's part of the CPU state.
>
> >
> > >Text Segment Pointer
> >
> > Ditto.
> >
> > Oh, and you forgot block segment start.... :-)
> >
> > >
> > >etc. etc.
> > >
> > >MORON.
> >
> > Well, excuse me for pedantifying. :-P
>
> Sorry, Ghost...I got you confused with someone else.
>
> >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> That's tangential to storing the state of the micro during a context
> > >> switch or function call for later restore. A pointer is merely a
> > >> novel method of interpreting a number within a general register or
> > >> memory location as a memory address. (For that matter, a number is
> > >> merely a novel method of interpreting the bits within a general
> > >> register or memory address, and the bits within a general register
> > >> are a novel method of interpreting logic voltages, which are merely
> > >> novel methods of interpreting largish collections of electrons [*]:
> > >> 1 pF = about 6,250,000 electrons per volt.)
> > >>
> > >> Of course, one of the pieces of CPU state is the program counter.... :-)
> > >>
> > >> OK, so I quibble.
> > >
> > >You also just demonstrated that you don't know fuck about CPUs
> >
> > Oh really? :-P
> >
> > I at least know that pointers are merely a human way of relating
> > to bags o' bits. That was my point; as far as the micro is concerned,
> > it's pushing bits from a data register to the address buss.
> > A bit's a bit.
> >
> > Many CPUs for example don't care what's stored in their registers,
> > which means that one can do stupid things like
> >
> > MOV #1,R1
> > MOV 4(R1),R1
> >
> > and of course cause an access violation, but why should the
> > first instruction really care?
> >
> > I will note that the 68000, however, went the split-register route
> > (8 D registers, 8 A registers, two of which are dedicated to
> > SP (A6) and PC (A7), respectively.) In cases such as that, one
> > might be able to cause an exception (although why even bother?)
> > on an immediate load to an A register. However, HP PA uses
> > 32 general-purpose registers which can be used for pretty much
> > anything (although HP does have a calling convention, dedicating 5 registers
> > thereto (4 parameters, 1 return; extra parameters are pushed on the
> > stack as always), and register 0 is *always* zero). I don't know
> > what SPARC uses, but I suspect it's similar. Makes compiler writing
> > very simple; one doesn't have to worry about whether LEA 10(%ax)
> > makes sense when allocating %ax.
> >
> > And then there's ... errrm .... the x86 ... . I don't know whether
> > the 386 fixed all of the weidies regarding register usage or not.
> > (It probably did, but I do wonder.)
>
> x86 has the Data Segment, Text Segment, etc. registers.
>
> So also the IBM-370 programmer's model (who knows what the
> ACTUAL hardware looked lik...probably even changed over time,
> ..but that was the model presented to the programmer by the
> microcode.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Note also that a smart compiler won't push all registers onto the stack;
> > >
> > >Depends on the CPU. Some CPU's don't give you any choice. Some do.
> >
> > I've yet to run into one at this point which doesn't
> > allow specification of which registers to push and pop.
> > To be fair, though, I really haven't coded in that many:
> >
> > 68000 (Motorola)
> > 8086 (Intel et al)
> > 1802 (Harris)
> > VAX 11/7xx (DEC)
> > 6502 (?)
> > HP PA RISC (HP)
>
> If you ever get a chance to look at IBM 370, you'll see the
> 80x86 is derived from it.
>
> >
> > and a very small smattering of SPARC (Sun), which I might have seen
> > during debugging something or other. Can't say I've coded in it yet.
> > (I might; I've got a Sparc 5 at home running Linux. Maybe when
> > California gets its power woes straightened out.)
> >
> > [rest snippd]
> >
> > --
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> > EAC code #191 7d:06h:27m actually running Linux.
> > I was asleep at the switch the rest of the time.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
> can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Microsoft: Closed source is more secure
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:38:42 +1200
Hi all,
Security Focus is running this story of comments by the Head of
Microsoft's security response team at the RSA Conference:
http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/templates/article.html%3Fid%3D191
I think some of the arguments are self-serving and utterly disingenuous.
For example:
`By contrast, Microsoft does extensive testing on every product, and on
every patch, said Lipner. "People ask us why our security patches take so
long. One of the reasons they take so long is because we test them."'
`Lipner, who oversees Microsoft's response to newly-reported security
holes in its products, took the opportunity to point out "the repeated and
recurring vulnerabilities in the Unix utilities BIND, WU-FTP, and so on.
The repeated theme is people use this stuff, but they don't spend time
security reviewing."'
`"An encryption algorithm is relatively simple, compared to a 40 million
line operating system," Lipner argued. "And the discovery of an individual
software flaw doesn't pay off much... It doesn't win anyone fame and
fortune... People fix the flaw and move on."'
And in response to that point Lipner, it's not Linux that contains
40,000,000 lines of code to review and debug.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux + PostgreSQL + Apache + JDBC + Tomcat JSP / Servlets: Ready for
prime time?
Date: 14 Apr 2001 08:45:21 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Greg Copeland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> is pretty fast now, plus is supports transactions. MySQL, specifically,
> has scalability issues. I personally would recomment Post, that Borland
> DB that I can never remember the name of, Oracle, Sybase, etc. Notice
Do you mean Paradox as "that Borland DB"?
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Getting the job done is no excuse for not following the rules.
Corrollary:
Following the rules will not get the job done.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:52:12 -0500
Actually, it has nothing to do with templates. This is a bug with friend
functions combined with the using declaration, which have had some known
issues.
In any event, the issue here has nothing to do with MI, as you claimed. If
you knew much about C++, you'd know this, and you could have recreated it in
a much smaller sample.
You can recreate it in the following simple code that doesn't use MI at all.
To make it work, comment out the #include and the using namespace std:
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
class S
{
public:
private:
int a;
friend bool operator>(const S& s1, const S& s2);
};
bool operator>(const S& s1, const S& s2){return s1.a > s2.a;}
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:OOTB6.3188$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Your example uses templates. That is most likely the issue, not the MI.
VC
> is a pre-standard compiler, and as such cannot be expected to conform to a
> standard that did not exist when it was written.
>
> I'll compile them and see.
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I've found the programs in the book "C++ Primer Plus" by Stephen Prata.
> >
> > See attached source code.
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:54:07 GMT
[snips]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Since there is no junior-high-designed "registry" to get corrupted,
> there is ZERO need to shut down other programs to install a new app.
Umm... the registry is not the reason apps require reboots. Generally
speaking, there are three reasons an install wants to reboot:
1) It has attempted to update a locked file, such as a system file.
2) It has installed something expected to run during the startup phase of
operations
3) It is installing a service (not in the NT sense, but in the sense of a
background application or library) which needs to be launched in order to
work
One might suggest that in the case of #3, a better approach could be used.
I agree. In the cases of #2 and #1, I'm not sure how, given such an
application being installed, Linux would handle this any better; how exactly
does Linux handle live patching of the kernel, for example, without
rebooting?
> On REAL operating systems, you can have 500 programs (or thousands, even),
> and install a new app....WITH NO FEAR of anything bad happening.
Funny; I tried that today. Tried to install xemacs. Not once, not twice,
but three times - and every time, guess what it did? It froze the machine.
No, not just X - the whole damn machine. No restarting X. No logging into
another terminal as root and doing a graceful shutdown. No nothing. No
response at all from keyboard, mouse, network, or anything else.
Not once, but three times, installing an application required not just a
graceful reboot, but a hard reset. Two of those times, it munged things so
bad it required a _power off_ to wake the drive back up.
Okay, it's not the _usual_ course of events. Then again, asking for a
reboot during installation of a Windows app isn't, either; it's just common
enough to be annoying. :)
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
[snip of stupid sig-bomb]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:54:07 -0700
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
"roger$@a" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> GreyCloud says...
>
> >
> >Not anymore. Modules allows one to add changes to the kernel without
> >rebooting.
> >CD-RW is now part of the more popular distros. The kernel hacking is
> >never needed with these devices... it was something done a few years
> >ago. Time changes things.
> >
>
> Wrong.
>
> get SUSE 7.1, just released. with kernel 2.4 no less. You will find you
> need to hack the kernel for this.
>
> Trying to make up things will not make it true.
B.S., bozo. I'm running SuSE 7.1, and just wrote to my CD-RW drive.
Underneath that sits my DVD. Get your nuts out of your mouth.
>
>
> >>
> >> 6. Printing on Linux is broke. On widnows, setting up a printer requires
> >> no hacks as on linux. It just works.
> >>
>
> >
> >Printing is easy. I find that my Epson printer works better under linux
> >than it ever has under windows.
>
> How could a printer work better on any OS than another? The printer is
> a printer.
>
> On window, printer managemnt is consitant and works the same. From any
> application I can access the same printer management interface. I can
> locate a printer anywhere on the network and by a simple click I have
> access to it.
>
> Linux is years behind windows when it comes to printing.
>
>
> >
> >I've never had a problem with different window managers.
>
> Who care if YOU did not have a problem? The point is the users want to
> see one well managed consistant desktop that work the same way. Not
> 20 ones and a new one each month.
>
>
> >>
> >> PERL, python, PHP all exist on windows.
>
> >
> >You have to either buy or download these for windows. These are already
> >pre-configured under linux.
> >
>
> Wrong again. They are free. downloading is not a problem. people download
> many things each day.
>
>
> >>
> >> There is no commerical DVD player for linux. What is there is
> >> mostly hacks that does not support half of what a commercial
> >> DVD players on widnows support.
> >>
>
> >
> >I would refute the DVD argument. Things change over time. I believe
> >that the current version of Suse and RedHat now have DVD built in.
> >
>
> You are confusing mpeg-1 with mpeg-2.
>
> There is NO commerical DVD player for Linux. Go to your fry's electronics
> and tell me a name of ONE DVD player for linux. Actually go to anywhere
> in the web, and tell me where I can buy a DVD player for Linux.
>
> regards,
> Roger
--
Fortune's Real-Life Courtroom Quote #18:
Q: Are you married?
A: No, I'm divorced.
Q: And what did your husband do before you divorced him?
A: A lot of things I didn't know about.
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:55:18 -0500
"Chris Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > Judge Jackson ruled the market to be Intel-Compatible PC operating
> > > systems. He then went on to specifically address substitutes including
> > > server operating systems, Non-Intel-Compatible PC operating systems,
> > > information appliances, network computers, middleware etc.
> >
> > No, because otherwise server operating systems would have been included
if
> > it were simply Intel-Compatible PC operating systems.
>
> Is it just me, or did you not read either Judge Jackson's words, or
> mine? Server operating systems were explicitly discounted from the
> market in detail, in the findings of fact.
You said "Judge Jackson ruled the market to be Intel-Compatible PC operating
systems."
That's the market. Obviously there are server operating systems that run on
Intel-Compatible PC's. You can't rule that the market is Intel-Compatible
PC operating systems, and then say that some Intel-Compatible PC operating
systems don't count. If that was your intent, you would have said
"Intel-Compatible Desktop PC Operating systems" or "Intel-Compatible
Non-server Operating systems". But you didnt' say that.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 03:57:14 -0500
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Michael Pye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > People buy MS products because they get something out of it. Ever
> > tried to
> > > > > use Borland products ?
> > >
> > > Er. Yes actually I have. Borland C++ Builder was a dream when compared
> > with
> > > Miscrosoft Visual C++...
> >
> > Sure, as long as you don't try to do anything fancy with it. Once you
get
> > past what the IDE and the framework provide for you easily, it becomes,
not
> > a dream, but a nightmare. In addition, it's a far buggier product.
>
> It is well documented how Microsoft limited Borland's access to Windows
> information.
What are you talking about? Even if true, limiting access doesn't make your
product buggy. Programs crash because they do something like dereference
invalid memory. The IDE simply doesn't do what it's supposed to do in many
circumstances, which is poor programming and nothing else.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:57:38 -0700
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
Karel Jansens wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
> >
> > "roger$@a" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is no commerical DVD player for linux. What is there is
> > > mostly hacks that does not support half of what a commercial
> > > DVD players on widnows support.
> > >
> >
> > I would refute the DVD argument. Things change over time. I believe
> > that the current version of Suse and RedHat now have DVD built in.
> >
> I forgot that in my reply: SuSE has been offering a DVD-installation
> medium since version 6.4 (IIRC). It would be a pretty silly thing to do
> if their distribution did not come with DVD support.
I think 7.0 was the first to come up with DVD, and they included it in
the box with the seven CDs. Before installing 7.1 I got a DVD just for
this reason, and I'm really glad I did. Now I just leave the DVD in the
drive - no more CD swapping when I want to install or uninstall
something.
--
Fortune's Real-Life Courtroom Quote #18:
Q: Are you married?
A: No, I'm divorced.
Q: And what did your husband do before you divorced him?
A: A lot of things I didn't know about.
______________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Something cool in gcc
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:02:16 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:RCTB6.3184$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I did something in gcc, that I thought would make the compiler barf, to
> prove a
> > point. Instead of proving my point it would not work, it worked. Wow!
this
> is a
> > great feature of gcc.
> >
> > 1 #include <unistd.h>
> > 2 #include <string.h>
> > 3 #include <stdio.h>
> > 4 void function(char *str1, char *str2)
> > 5 {
> > 6 int cb = strlen(str1)+strlen(str2)+1;
> > 7 char str[cb];
> > 8 strcpy(str,str1);
> > 9 strcat(str,str2);
> > 10 printf("%s\n", str);
> > 11 }
> >
> > It isn't standard C/C++ but it could certainly save a malloc or two here
> and
> > there.
>
> You think it's cool that a compiler violates the C++ standard without even
a
> warning? What if you're trying to write compliant code?
I'll have to agree with you there, Erik. Hunting down little quirks like
that in code you didn't originally write but are asked to port is a royal
PITA.
"Cute shit" is fine for your own hacks but releasing them into the wild is
begging for trouble (and nasty e-mails from righteously pissed maintainers)
>
> In any event, I think this may be an optimization. C++ allows you to use
> constant variables as array declarations, since you're not changing the
> value of cb, it is probably optimizing it to a const value.
That'd be my guess, too.
--
Tom Wilson
------------------------------
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