Linux-Advocacy Digest #303, Volume #34 Mon, 7 May 01 18:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (vinchenzo)
Re: Linux and MP3s (Brent R)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Bob Hauck)
Re: Microsoft standards... (was Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product) (Bob
Hauck)
Re: Linux and MP3s (.)
Re: Why is Microsoft opening more Windows source code? (Bob Hauck)
Re: Article: Want Media Player 8? Buy Windows XP (Johan Kullstam)
Re: where's the linux performance? ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 (Stefan Ohlsson)
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 (Stefan Ohlsson)
Re: Linux and MP3s ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: Baseball (Chad Everett)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vinchenzo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:05:52 -0400
Rick wrote:
> JS PL wrote:
> >
> > "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > Then I suggest you are being sloppy with your accusations; you
> > > > > > know full well that MS never excluded anyone. At their *worst*
> > > > > > they want you to sell *their* product, whatever else you may
> > > > > > sell.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then why were their OEM-licenses dependant upon NOT selling any
> > > > > other vendor's OS?
> > > >
> > > > They weren't.
> > > >
> > > > Remember, not everything Max says is true. :D
> > >
> > > Then, try expalain what a per-processor license is.
> >
> > The per processor license simply required the OEM to pay a royalty to
> > Microsoft for each computer it manufactured containing a particular
> > microprocessor type during the term of the agreement. The minimum
> > commitment provision allowed the OEM to receive a volume discount by
> > committing to ship a designated number of computers. These agreements
> > had obvious benefits for both the OEM and Microsoft. Microsoft did not,
> > however, require any OEM to enter into a per processor license in order
> > for the OEM to license Microsoft 's operating systems products. Rather,
> > it was one of several licensing options made available to each OEM, and
> > it was selected only by those OEMs that found it to be to their economic
> > advantage. Indeed, the majority of Microsoft's license agreements for
> > its operating systems were not per processor agreements.
>
> AND... Microsft set the pricing so that it was almost impossible ot NOT
> use per-processor licensing. And since vendors were already paying for
> M$' OS, if they loaded another one, they ( and the customer) paid for
> another license. And befor you start braying about percentages of
> vendors, go do some researc of vendors and find out waht the percentage
> of -shipping computers- they covered.
>
shut up flanders
------------------------------
From: Brent R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and MP3s
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:08:48 GMT
"." wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mark Styles wrote:
> >>
> >> Fellow advocates,
> >>
> >> I currently have my entire CD collection stored in MP3 format on a
> >> 30Gb hard drive in a Windows PC.
> >>
> >> Because I use that PC for other things, which sometimes interfere with
> >> the music, I've been busy building a new PC to be a dedicated
> >> 'jukebox' on our LAN.
> >>
> >> I've decided as an experiment to install Linux on the new PC to see
> >> how well it handles my musical needs.
> >>
> >> My question is, what applications should I use to emulate XingMP3
> >> Player functionality?
>
> > There are several. When you do the install, they'll be available
> > on the appliations menu.
>
> Uhh...wrong. The default xmms install (assuming that you do not have
> gnome installed) drops everything in /usr/local/bin, but not into any
> "applications menu".
>
> Unless you are *specifically* using mandrake, you fucking moron.
>
> > If you put the drive with the MP3's in during installation, and
> > leave it alone (with it's current formatting, etc.), then it will
> > be mounted into the filesystem on your first boot-up.
>
> Are you insane? What the hell is the matter with you? It very much
> depends on which distribution youre using, cocksmack.
>
> -----.
>
> --
> "George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
>
> ---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
If this were a movie you two would fall in love.
--
- Brent
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:12:00 GMT
On Mon, 07 May 2001 20:25:18 GMT, Daniel Johnson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Yes, that's basically it. I don't know for sure what it does with
> > things like PCL5. It could be (and I think it is) more sophisticated
> > than a bitmap. In any case, I do know that my PCL printers work fine
> > with it. The output is not distinguishable from that produced by GDI
> > from the same input (e.g. by PDF documents).
>
> That's not very suprising; you are replacing GhostScript's
> PostScript renderer with Adobe's there. :D
Well, Ok, maybe StarOffice is a better example. It seems to print the
same on both.
> Rendering PDF to a printer has the same problems
> GhostScript has.
> Hmmm. You are saying that GhostScript will
> not render the page as a bitmap, if it can find
> a translation to higher level PCL?
I'm saying I don't know for sure but that there's no reason it couldn't
do that if there are equivalent constructs in the two languages. It can
certainly render and download fonts _once_ rather than making each page
into a huge bitmap.
> > and b) have now created a
> > document that nobody else can print properly unless they have the same
> > printer + cartridges as you do.
>
> No. Each time you print the substitution is
> done afresh; on a new printer it may well
> be done differently.
>
> This may mean that you get different wordbreaks
> when you change printers, even a different
> pagecount.
That's what I meant by not "printing properly". Elsewhere in this
forum we have people arguing that web sites ought to render "the way
the designer intended". I'm pretty sure most people expect that of
documents.
> It certainly isn't always a wise thing to do, but for
> garden variety word processing it's a plus.
For garden variety word processing, printing huge bitmaps is fine too.
> > Sure it can. The script "ps2ascii" uses GS to extract the ascii text
> > from a ps file.
>
> I don't think that's quite the same thing. :D
You didn't say it had to be the same, you said that it couldn't do it at
all. 8->
> And there's no way for an application printing
> to such a printer to discover that it can't use
> any graphics.
That's true. The user surely knows though. Anyway, it is just the same
problem that we started with, that the printer can't talk back.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft standards... (was Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product)
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:14:56 GMT
On Mon, 7 May 2001 22:42:33 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Text base applications would adjust automatically, it's those applications
> that makes assumtions about screen size (Edit.com, as you mention) that
> can't be resized.
The applications you refer to as "text based" don't adjust, they just
have no idea how big the screen is in the first place bacuse they just
write lines of text to stdout.
The ones like edit.com are the ones that ought to adust. Hey, I fully
understand why old DOS apps don't adjust, I just do not get why they
ship old DOS apps with NT or why even new console apps don't seem to
know about resizeable windows.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Linux and MP3s
Date: 7 May 2001 21:19:15 GMT
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) writes:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > There are several. When you do the install, they'll be available
>> > on the appliations menu.
>>
>> Uhh...wrong. The default xmms install (assuming that you do not have
>> gnome installed) drops everything in /usr/local/bin, but not into any
>> "applications menu".
>>
>> Unless you are *specifically* using mandrake,
> ... or any other distribution's packaging system.
Really? Where is it under blackbox on my debian system? (hint, I do not
have an applications menu)
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Why is Microsoft opening more Windows source code?
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:19:35 GMT
On Mon, 7 May 2001 14:49:47 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >"jtnews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >Open Source isn't bad, according to MS. The GPL is. They support Open
> > >Source licenses such as the BSDL.
> >
> > Do they? What software have they BSDLed?
>
> I believe the front page extensions are BSDL'd, or similar.
Only the patch to Apache that you need to apply to get some FP features
to work and some non-FP ones to break. The rest of it is binary-only
with the usual license.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Article: Want Media Player 8? Buy Windows XP
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 21:23:00 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Johan Kullstam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > "Johan Kullstam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 6 May 2001
> > > 13:33:48
> > > > > > >That is one thing that frighten me about the GPL.
> > > > > > >There is already GPLed data, what happen when other things start
> to
> > > get
> > > > > GPL?
> > > >
> > > > i'm not a lawyer, but GPL has nothing to do with data.
> > >
> > > freedb.org, read COPYING
> >
> > i visited <URL:http://freedb.org/> i could find no link called
> > "COPYING". nor was the word "copying" to be found anywhere on the
> > page. please be more specific.
>
> ftp://www.freedb.org/pub/freedb/COPYING
that has to do with the freedb software sources. it does not pertain
to the data you store in freedb.
> > > > > > Then the world becomes a better place.
> > > > >
> > > > > Really? Then why don't tell me how happy you would be when the
> credit
> > > card
> > > > > companies would publish *your* credit history, because of GPL?
> > > >
> > > > what planet do you live on? they already publish your credit history.
> > > > afaict it has nothing to do with the GPL.
> > >
> > > On the US, maybe, not where *I* live.
> >
> > do you feel the GPL will change this?
>
> It was a bloody *example*, all right?
it was not an example. to be an example, it'd have to turn out to be
true. it was a baseless insinuation which, as it turns out, is false.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: where's the linux performance?
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:28:17 +0200
In article <GvwJ6.4339$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "~�~"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Jonathan Martindell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9d242m$n03$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> [ The usual shocked and amazed reaction to finding out that what was
> read about 'speed' turned out to be pure fantasy snipped ]
>
> Welcome to the land of the snowed. It's not faster, is it? No, it's not.
> In fact, waiting for GUI apps to load is quite painful, isn't it?
Hmm. Never bothered me. StarOffice takes a few seconds yes, and Galeon
takes about 5 seconds initializing the java VM yes, but that is about it.
Most apps appear within 3 seconds *at most* and I don't have a mega fast
system.
Fonts
> look terrible at higher resolutions, don't they?
Running at 1280x1024. Type 1 fonts look just fine. Standard bitmap fonts
are ugly yes, but most distro's don't install them as default fonts
anymore.
Switching those same
> resolutions isn't pretty, is it? That's because all you're doing is in
> effect 'zooming' the desktop, not changing the video resolution. That is
> why when you go from higher to lower you can't see the kde taskbar
> anymore.
And when you have found a resolution that suits you, why in the seven
hells would you want to switch to a lower one? This isn't Windows where
most idiot programmers think everyone is still running at 800x600.
>Drag the Netscape window around your desktop. Ugly, isn't it?
Yep. That's why I run Mozilla (without debugging code it's quite
bearable) or better yet, Galeon.
> Scroll a text window quickly. Ooohhh, that's not good, is it? 21st
> century stuff, huh?
Yep, quick and zippy. I can even scroll back in a terminal window if it
scrolls out of view too fast. That's something I've yet to see on
Windows, 9x or NT.
On the good side, however, you don't have to reboot
> after you fart as you do with windows. But then you'll spend a lot,
> scratch that, a WHOLE lot more time learning how to configure things. If
> your time is not an issue then linux is the bargain of the century.
Yes, true, you will have tweak a few plain text files if you want to
utilize the full power of Linux. OTOH, you don't have to mess around with
a cryptic registry just to deinstall a program cleanly.
>
> Like perl? python? C? typing? a fast and powerful cli? Then you have
> nirvana.
> Otherwise you have 'cool', but NOT something for a day to day
> recreational user.
> At all.
>
>
Yep, this guy is a programmer. He'll definitely enjoy Linux, as it at
least comes with all the dev tools he'll ever need. Gee, what happened to
that BASIC interpreter that used to ship with Windows?
HAND,
Mart
--
Gimme back my steel, gimme back my nerve
Gimme back my youth for the dead man's curve
For that icy feel when you start to swerve
John Hiatt - What Do We Do Now
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Date: 7 May 2001 23:34:26 +0100
On Mon, 07 May 2001 13:01:08 GMT, Tom Wilson wrote:
>I can remember back in the early eighties when they proposed a Zilog-Z80
>based home computer standard (Trying as hard as I can to remember the name
>of the thing. ASX keeps coming to mind, but, I'm sure that's the wrong
MSX ?
>acronym) It was light-years behind what Apple and Commodore had already
>done. Their marketing effot over here died as quickly as it started. That's
>the only time I can remember them being so clueless when it came to
>technology.
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] � There will always be survivors - Robert A. Heinlein � []
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Date: 7 May 2001 23:41:10 +0100
On Mon, 7 May 2001 18:29:54 +0200, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>"Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>Sure I've seen the occasional box running DOS in a closet with a unix
>>print
>>server client running on it here and there but... that hardly means MS-DOS
>>is alive and well.
>Windows has the killer applications that DOS didn't, what killer
>applications does XP have that you can't run on 9x?
>Since it's going to be a long time before stuff that is written to XP will
>not be able to run on 9x, I would say you are in for a long wait.
>
How about Windows Media Player 8?
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] � There will always be survivors - Robert A. Heinlein � []
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and MP3s
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:40:25 +0200
In article <9d73gj$6b3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) writes:
>
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > There are several. When you do the install, they'll be available on
>>> > the appliations menu.
>>>
>>> Uhh...wrong. The default xmms install (assuming that you do not have
>>> gnome installed) drops everything in /usr/local/bin, but not into any
>>> "applications menu".
>>>
>>> Unless you are *specifically* using mandrake,
>
>> ... or any other distribution's packaging system.
>
> Really? Where is it under blackbox on my debian system? (hint, I do
> not have an applications menu)
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
Well,
In Debian it is supposed to be under Debian->Apps->Sound->XMMS.
HTH,
Mart
--
Gimme back my steel, gimme back my nerve
Gimme back my youth for the dead man's curve
For that icy feel when you start to swerve
John Hiatt - What Do We Do Now
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Baseball
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 7 May 2001 16:21:46 -0500
On Tue, 01 May 2001 03:46:52 GMT, Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>The last pre-loaded version of Microsoft OS was in 1995, it was WFWG3.11,
>the next computer I built from parts and installed Win98 (OEM, I bought it
>from the company who sold me the 6G HD, a month after I bought my P400).
>I just recently install Windows 2K on the some machine, I got the free from
>MS. I won their Win2K sweepstakes. (1 of 6000).
>If I wanted too, I could easily install Linux, but it DOESN'T support my
>DVD atleast for movies, and the selection of games on it suck. There is a
>total of 2 games, out of 12 or more games, available on Linux....
>
So in other words, you stick with Windows because you use your computer
to watch movies and play games. You'd do a lot better buying a DVD
player for your TV and a Sony PlayStation 2.
>Also alot of people want to use the same OS as they do in the workplace.
>Linux has to get from the backrooms to the desktop in business' before they
>will see some growth in the desktop market. About 90% of the people I know
>bought a computer with windows because they used it at work.
>
The people I work with use, Solaris, Linux, Irix, HP-UX. The office
clerks use Windows.
>I know of ONE mom and pop shop around here that supports Linux and the
>others are looking into it.
>
Such a shop is non-existent in my town as far as I know. I wish we had
even one, but then again, the internet provides me with all the linux
support I need.
>Unlike him, I have been around advocacy for a long time, and there really
>hasn't been a convicing case on the merits of Linux, other than it not MS.
>
I really like Linux because it comes with open source kernel, drivers,
applications, free mail,http,ssh,ntp, etc.etc. servers, free C, C++,
java, Pascal, ADA, scheme, python, perl, fortran, etc languages and
IDEs out of the box. Free firewall and router services. It comes with
really nice GUI desktops from both KDE, GNOME, and others...all free...
and all that open source. It all adds up to make Linux lots and lots of
fun for a very low pricetag.
Of course, if you only like to watch movies and play games, I don't
know why you need a computer anyway.
>
>Most users are patient, you have to be, a slow computer, a unstable
>system, and all the rest. Even my friend who has a 1GHz computer, wishes
>he had gotten the 1.5 GHz.
>
Most users are not being help back by the speed of the processor but
by the limitations of their disk/file/peripheral subsystems. People
foolishly throw money at CPU speed when they'd be much better off
buying quality motherboards, controllers, disks, and peripherals.
...but a lot of movie watchers and game players tend to think like
you.
>You have shown your also.....
Ditto.
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:07:57 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9d6skc$7ap$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:IeAJ6.8652$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Shall I go on? I have a lot of stuff to belyache
> > about. :D
>
> This is certainly intersting, do go on.
Sure. Heck, this is comp.sys.mac.advocacy; what
better place to bellyache about MacOS? :D
Frankly, Macintosh co-operative multitasking
gets a bad rap. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's not even a
very good implementation. But it takes the rap
for things that are not its fault.
Ever notice how when you pull down a
menu, the world stops?
This isn't poor multitasking. It's QuickDraw.
QuickDraw does not support a window
heirarchy. Each window is a sibling of
every other. They have no children,
no parent.
Drawing into a window may be done with its
attached grafport. This drawing is clipped so
you can't scribble onto another window.
And there's also a GrafPort for the whole
screen. All of it, including the windows.
Unclipped. Unprotected. It's not related
to any window, and doesn't participate in
that kind of thing.
And that's it.
In Windows, when you pull down a menu
Windows creates a window (with no
title bar or other decorations) to contain
it. Drawing can proceed as normal in other
windows. No problem.
This is how everyone does it. Everyone but
the Mac, that is.
On the Mac, the menu manager just
draws right onto the screen, with no
special clipping or anything. If any
other drawing is done, it will go right on
top of that menu.
So MacOS does not allow that to happen;
it does not multitask while menus are
down.
A co-operative MT system *can* continue
multitasking while menus are down if
the graphics system is smart enough to
keep things straight. Windows 3 did it.
There's more where that came from, if
you want it.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
