Linux-Advocacy Digest #169, Volume #35 Tue, 12 Jun 01 18:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: More funny stuff. (Mark)
Re: Redhat video problems. (Mark)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Craig Kelley)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) (Mark)
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? (Mark)
Re: So what software is the NYSE running ? (Mark)
Re: Getting used to Linux (Nigel Feltham)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Craig Kelley)
Re: Opera (Craig Kelley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Subject: Re: More funny stuff.
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:01:55 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <9g4kpi$p5i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:9g4k1d$97e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <9g3146$j41$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
>
>
>> > a.. Colleague: "Hey! I hate these Microsoft guys! What a rotten
>> > compiler!
>> > It only accepts 16,384 local variables in a function!"
>>
>> That is one of my favourite!
>>
>> 16384 local variables? What in hells name was he doing, I wonder.
>
>I don't know and I'm afraid to ask.
>I can't think of a single good reason why you would need so many local
>variables. The reason for functions is to *break* the program to little
>pieces, if you need many local variables, you aren't breaking it to little
>enough pieces.
>I mean, the human brain can only hold 7 or so items at one time, and
>programmers has to juggle enough in their brain as it is.
Er, not quite. The *average* person can hold about 7 items in
*short-term memory* at the same time. Many people can hold twice
that with no problem. Mid-term and long-term memory function
very differently, of course, and you can always write something
down. Or, (pause for breath) add a comment?
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:12:40 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <9g4km3$aa4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Edward Rosten wrote:
>> Hahaha, honestly I feel so sorry for the English re internet access, not
>> that its a lot different here in Australia :(
>
><begin rant>
>
>I don't know why the hell BT didn't get everyone on to ISDN?
>
>OK, I know ISDN isn't that great, but it's a hell of a lot better than a
>modem, especially since the connection seed is much more consistent.
>
>It isn't as if the entire bloody phone network runs at 64 kb per second
>anyway. All ISDN does is skip the A/D converters in the RCU (remote
>concentrator units). Esentially what everyone has to do is send an
>analogue signal down a line that then then gets didgtised at the speed
>ISDN runs at anyway.
>
>But for some reason, they claimed ISDN was something `special' and
>charded a bloody fortune if you waned to use it.
You have to change the line card at the TE, and provide suitable
equipment on the customer's premises to get a digital signal down
the 2-wire line.
>Note, the entire network is a plesiochronus network that gives a like at
>64kb/s (fixed for the duration of the call) between any two RCUs. The
>RCU's then digitize or anaolgueize the data and chuck it down a twisted
>pair ot the telephone.
Not quite. The 64kbit/s network is being replaced (albeit slowly) with
a new generation of switches with an ATM core. The transmission network
between the switches is mostly synchonous, not plesiochronous any more.
The other job of the line card (aside from PCM to analogue conversion)
is to provide a balanced bridge to get four wires out of 2, as well
as providing signalling from the customer's premises to the switch.
Otherwise you wouldn't be able to dial anything!
I thought that home highway pricing was the same as PSTN once you'd
had the install done, but I might be wrong - maybe you should look
into it?
>
>
>
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:00:32 -0600
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=21403
> or
> http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2772060,00.html
>
> But they both say the same thing:
> Gartner Dataquest has reported that 8.6 percent of server shipments in the
> U.S. during the third quarter of 2000 were Linux-based and 97% of those were
> Red Hat. Another interesting finding was that when so-called "white box," or
> non-branded, server purchases were excluded and only branded server
> purchases considered, Linux's share of the market fell to just 6 percent in
> the third quarter of 2000.
Subject: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
s/Linux penetration/Puchased copies of Linux pre-installed on servers
Anyone who has used linux even a little bit knows that RedHat has no
where near 97% of the market.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: 12 Jun 2001 21:26:35 GMT
In article <9g58ck$c09$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In <9g518o$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva) writes:
> >In article <9g42ap$luq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> And the worst behaved applications drop their bits in /usr/bin, /usr/lib
> >> /usr/man etc. It's easier to reinstall them from scratch.
> >I can't think of any that do, at least not in the last 10 years. I'm not
> >saying there aren't, but I'd be interested to hear of them.
> pc64-006:~ 0 9> which sgicc
> /usr/bin/sgicc
WTF is sgicc?
(poke)
Ah. Well, what do you expect from SGI?
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:30:31 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <9g4e7k$i4n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <befV6.15346$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >I still don't get where you got this from. No one is saying that
>> >64-bit won't catch on eventually, we were just saying it won't
>> >be immediate. Just like people didn't jump to 32-bit immediately.
>> >Many of the first apps for Win95 were still 16-bit. It'll just take
>> >awhile.
>> >
>>
>> Intel released the 386 in October of 1985. MS released "Chicago"
>> (Win95) in August of 1995.
>>
>> The "jump", more like "ooze", to 32 bits took these rapid innovators
>> over nine years.
>>
>> Why should we expect the "jump" to 64 bits should happen any faster ?
>
>Because MS has OS to those 64bits chips that actually uses 64bits?
>Don't underestimate the power of the most common OS.
>
>Why weren't there any DOS clones for 386 that worked on 32bits?
>
>
>
>
What about dos 4gw?
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:14:55 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <3b2614a2$0$94308$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers wrote:
>
>"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Michael Vester wrote:
>> >
>> > GreyCloud wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Chad Myers wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > "Michael Vester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > > > Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I'm not too sure about the NYSE, but I think the NASDAQ,
>unfortunately, runs
>> > > > > > on Windows.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Matthew Gardiner
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > NASDAQ's web server is Windows. The computer that actually does the
>> > > > > trading is a big Unisys mainframe. Microcomputer architecture just
>isn't
>> > > > > capable. It's not a Windows verses Linux issue.
>> > > >
>> > > > About a year ago it was still Unisys. Last year they announced they were
>> > > > moving to Win2K Datacenter. I'm not sure if they actually did it, or if
>> > > > it's complete yet or not, but I would imagine we would've heard about it
>> > > > if it went south.
>> > > >
>> > > > -c
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > > > > > news:84aU6.9834$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > > > > > > news:3%9U6.1335$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > > > > > > In article <3b212110$0$94312$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad
>Myers
>> > > > > > > says...
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED] dripot> wrote in message
>> > > > > > > > >news:CP8U6.1221$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > > > > > > >> What's the skinny ?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >What software are they running for what?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Haven't heard about the fiasco today ?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I'm talking about what they use for managing trades.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Well, their web site runs under AIX, so one would assume that
>they're
>> > > > > > > probably a big IBM shop, and are probably running trades under AIX
>and/or
>> > > > > > > OS/390.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Michael Vester
>> > > > > A credible Linux advocate
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "The avalanche has started, it is
>> > > > > too late for the pebbles to vote"
>> > > > > Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
>> > >
>> > > Highly unlikely that any stock exchange is using micros or microsoft
>> > > products to run the core of operations. These are done with
>> > > mainframes... goto comp.os.vm or comp.os.vms and ask the question.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > V
>> > Exactly. There are many applications out there that can't be run on a
>> > microcomputer platform. Our local municipal government still runs a
>> > Unisys system for tax assessment. IBM tried for 10 years to move it over
>> > to an IBM mainframe platform. They failed. Now they are trying to move it
>> > to a losedos/Oracle platform. I don't think they will be any more
>> > successful.
>> >
>>
>> hehehe... I our city moved over to win2k and oracle to maintain records
>> of traffic violations. Then one day ol' Barney Fife caught me doing 38
>> in 35 mph zone and gave me a ticket... I waited and watched the
>> newspaper for any down time... sure enough they went down... I trekked
>> on down to the courthouse to see if I had any moving violations on file
>> and they said 'nope'. Sometimes it pays to have Win2k in government.
>
>Right.
>
>*cough*bullshit*cough*.
>
>I know you penguinistas will stoop to the lowest levels, but flat out
>lying is quite rediculous. Are you guys that sad that you must
>make lies up just to defend your poor choice in OS?
>
You know he's lying? I think not.
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: So what software is the NYSE running ?
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:18:50 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <3b261436$0$94305$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers wrote:
>
>"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Jon Johansan wrote:
>> >
>> > "Dennis G. Allard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:<84aU6.9834$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > > > > I'm talking about what they [the NYSE] use for managing trades.
>> > > >
>> > > > Well, their web site runs under AIX, so one would assume that they're
>> > > > probably a big IBM shop, and are probably running trades under AIX
>> > and/or
>> > > > OS/390.
>> > >
>> > > If they were running anything Microsoft, they would have crashes so much
>> > > more often it would make this little down time look like a holiday!
>> >
>> > You might want to consider that the NASDAQ runs MS for 90% of their
>> > operation and has had 0. That's zero MS related downtime since their
>> > adopting NT. They continue to convert their backend operations to W2K but
>> > are not completed. This is not an operation you take lightly or race ahead
>> > quickly but they are doing it. Converting from archiac Unix mainframes to
>> > W2K servers.
>>
>> That all depends on what you mean by "archaic". Do you mean the old
>> hardware boxes or the o/s? From my viewpoint I consider Win2k a kludge
>> compared to unix. Some consider unix to be very old and win2k as a
>> modern o/s... I kept checking into many reviews from different sources
>> on Win2k and find it is more of a kludge... can't call that modern.
>> At least Unix is structured and has some good reasons for its design.
>
>Please refrain from speaking out of your ass.
>
>Every Unix system I've used so far (which is Solaris, AIX, IRIX,
>Linux, and BSD) (yes, I know Linux isn't Unix, but you get my drift)
>every single one of them seems to be teetering on the edge of failure.
>I've had to reinstall this Solaris box on my desk 3 times now because
>the fscking pkgadd and patchadd BS fails constantly while installing
>patches. If you call that "structured" and a "good design" then you're
>smoking crack.
Aw, you're getting all irritable these days....
Our work linux servers just keep going, going going going.
The MS exchange ones just keep crashing crashing crashing.
The serious machines are mainly sun E.x thingies. They do
major network management and data analysis and stuff, hey,
they just keep going, going, going.
>
>Win2K, OTOH, seems to be well structured in the kernel, as well as
>the rest of the OS. You could debate the Win32 API (which is seperate,
>BTW), but the kernel is rock solid. Top-notch SMP, proven VMM and
>process seperation, multi-user, certified DAC security infrastructure,
>etc. It's quite well designed, you must not know what you're talking
>about, or you're thinking of Win9x.
How would you know what's in the kernel? It's closed source. All
you can repeat here is marketing mumbo, not fact.
Linux's kernel is open and visible. You know what you get, you
know what you buy.
--
Mark Kent
------------------------------
From: Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Getting used to Linux
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:17:24 -0400
I had a PC at work where windows kept refusing to reformat the hard-drive.
Everytime I attempted to reformat it I had some obscure 'invalid partition'
error and attempting to repartition it resulted in more errors. The only
way I could make the drive useable was to boot with a 'TOMSRTBT' linux
floppy and use linux fdisk and mkdosfs commands then reboot with the win98
CD to reinstall the OS.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:03:31 -0400
Ed Cogburn wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> > Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just goddamned sick and tired of
> > every loser in this country fucking up their life....all on their own,
> > and then whining and whining until the fool assholes in Congress say,
> > "There, there....have some of the TAXPAYER'S MONEY...", taking even
> > more out of my pocket.
>
> Which has what to do with how AIDS is spreading? What does this have to
> do with AIDS period? The only taxpayer money involved with AIDS is the
> research grant money spent on medica research, and conservatives have
> made sure that its not a whole lot.
>
> >
> > Enough of this nonsense.
>
> Yes, please, shut up you idiot.
>
> > Screw them. In this day and age, if you have AIDS, you're an idiot,
> > and should be just lined up against the wall and shot, just on principle,
> > for being such a fucking dumbass.
>
> It don't take a genius to figure out that Aaron doesn't give a damn
> about anyone else but himself.
>
No...
it's that I'm being told that I ***MUST*** demonstrate respect...
...for people who don't even respect themselves.
> --
> It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -- Voltaire
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:05:06 -0600
Eugenio Mastroviti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=21403
> > or
> > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2772060,00.html
>
>
> > The study results prove that Linux on the server side is still "just a niche
> > play," Miller added. It's unrealistic to look at sales numbers and believe
> > that all of these are being deployed. While many users have bought Linux to
> > try it out, a large number of those copies bought, downloaded and acquired
> > were tested and then never actually used, he said.
>
> Well, if I may add my 2 cents to the discussion:
>
> I'm sysadmin for a small company in London. In the last year we have
> bought a total of 9 servers. None of them had Linux preinstalled when we
> bought them. Now they all run Linux. Why? Because I don't like
> preinstalled software. I know what partitioning scheme will work for our
> servers, I know what software configuration will work, I know what
> packages I want, I know what packages I don't want - mostly because I
> prefer compiling the sources. So we bought them without the OS and we
> also bought a copy of RedHat.
>
> So if this survey had been run in the UK, these 9 Dell servers would
> have been classified as non-Linux.
>
> I believe others here could tell the same story...
Ditto. We have (at last count) 17 Linux servers -- none of them came
pre-installed on the machines; in fact the opposite is often true,
they count as OEM copies of Microsoft Windows. I'm just tidying up
the last bits on our new dual-Xeon 1ghz / 2gb RAM / 180gb RAID array
machine running RedHat 6.2 and Oracle 8.1.7.
I would venture to state that MOST Linux servers have an OEM license
for Microsoft Windows attached to them in some insidious manner.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Opera
Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:09:41 -0600
Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sean Clarke) writes:
> I've seen Netscape take linux down Ed but it wasn;t a kernel panic.
> I just got into a state where everything locked up and I couldnt
> get into any of my virtual consoles.
Netscape 4.x sucks. Mozilla nightlies are much better.
> My two guilders worth is that at the moment Opera is the business, no
> crashes yet with me, nice and fast and the adverts are very very tiny.
>
> Me's happy with Opera.
I use Opera most of the time as well -- worth the $40 any day. It has
Netscape 2.02 speeds and stability with all the trimmings of modern
HTML. I love how the back button is instananeous (IE and Mozilla
are *very* slow at back-button operations) , and I love the
tabbed-windows as well.
I'll probably end up switching to Mozilla when it comes out at 1.0,
but for now Opera is an incredible piece of technology -- well, after
you hack the buttons to be in the right place anyway... :)
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
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