Linux-Advocacy Digest #259, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 09:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Stephen Cornell)
Re: Getting used to Linux ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (Thaddius
Maximus)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) (Karri Kalpio)
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: IBM Goes Gay (.)
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Edward Rosten")
Re: IBM Goes Gay (.)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Cornell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: 15 Jun 2001 13:22:19 +0100
Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Thanks for the offer Doc, but an educated fellow like yourself should
> have no problem with a search engine.
I did. It's your turn to put up, or shut up.
--
Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Getting used to Linux
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:25:33 +0100
In article <9gcn40$dna$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
>> i dont like teh fact that Unrreal and Quake3 are mostly dependent on
>> having a Voodoo type board since it seems like those are the ones that
>> utilize OpenGL/Glide the most. I'd say blame there is split between
>> Loki and the vid card manufacturers. Loki could have made the games
>> less reliant on those libs but the manufactuers could have made their
>> boards compatible with the libs as well.
>
> You could also add Linux to the list, if it want to be used for games,
> it should provide an abstraction library.
It does: OpenGL.
Or are you referring to a more general API?
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:19:45 +0100
David Brown wrote:
>
> Edward Rosten wrote in message <9gclgt$cjn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >
> >> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Do you thing the victory was an international effort?
> >>
> >> **Obviously** That's the point. Somewhere between the idiots who say
> >> "the US won the war single-handedly" and the idiots who say "the US
> >> didn't do anything" lies the truth.
> >
> >Indeed.
> >
> >
> >There seem to be a huge number of idiots from the US on this group
> >(either that or a small number of very vocal idiots, which I think is
> >closer to the truth) who believe the US won it alone. there also seem to
> >be some other idiots who believe the reverse.
> >
> >-Ed
> >
>
> Well said. But there is also the class of Americans who, although they
> acknowledge that they were only part of the war in Europe, think that they
> "saved" us as some sort of favour for which we should be humbly grateful.
> The truth is that the US *had* to enter the war in Europe, for a number of
> reasons. If they had not, then they would be in a very bad position
> internationally, whether Germany had won or lost. The British and their
> allies in Europe may possibly have won without US help, but it would have
> been very unlikely. But with more concentrated help from Russia, Britain
> and Russia could have defeated Germany, leaving all of Europe united with
> Russia - not good at all for the US. Had Britain been defeated, the last
> resistance in Europe would be quickly overrun. Hitler would have been
> disposed of soon enough by other German leaders (Hitler was very
> charismatic, but not too smart - great for getting the support of German
> populace, but not ideal for running a new German empire). With smart
> leaders, they would have consolidated control in Europe and combined the
> technologies of the various countries. Then, if they had wanted to attack
> the US, they would have been able to do so without problem - they would have
> had better planes, better boats, better computers, better bombs, better
> rockets, and a far more efficient infrastructure. They could also have
> taken Russia, had the campaign been run rationally, and without a war on the
> Western front. The US could not risk this sort of senario, so their
> intervention in Europe was just as much for their own benifit as for their
> allies.
Would have, should have, could have... yadda, yadda, yadda...
The USA kicked the 3rd Reich's butt and kicked it hard and we
blew the Pacific theater to smithereens. What more could
you possibly ask for???
...
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:29:04 +0100
> Well Brent, the Founding Fathers didn't really ask for your opinion when
> they drew up the US Constituition, did they?
>
> As an American, please educate yourself on the PROFOUND differnece
> between a democracy and a republic:
You have NO clue at all.
I don't know why you are incapable or realising that the terms democratic
and republic are orthogonal.
A country can heva either, both or neither.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:30:28 +0100
> "Republican government: One in which the powers of sovereignty are
> vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly,
> or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers
> are specially delegated."
>
> "Democracy: That form of government in which the sovereign power resides
> in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or
> indirectly through a system of representation."
If you look at both of those carefully, the US fits under the description
of a representative democracy and republic. Why can't something be both?
Hint: it can.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:35:04 +0100
> *sigh* Obviously for you the devil is in the details. Please
> read the following over and over and over until it sinks in.
*huff*
> http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm
> http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2000/tst121200.htm
>
> Our elected representatives make decisions for the people based on what
> they believe is in our best interest (republic), they do not tally up
> our opinion on each matter and then decide accordingly (democracy).
Yes: I didn't say it was a democracy...
> As for your statement that we "democratically elect the
> representatives," I have no idea what that means. We do elect
> representatives.
...it is a *representative* democracy.
You vote for representatives. This part is a democratic process. the
representatives are selected in a democratic manner.
You DEMOCRATICALLY select people to represent you. They are then free to
pass laws within certain limits, but not based of further referendum.
That is what a *REPRSENTATIVE* democracy is.
As you can probably see a country (eg the US) can be both a republic and
a *representative* democracy at the SAME time.
Just because it is not written in the constitution, does not make it
false.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: Karri Kalpio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: 15 Jun 2001 15:33:34 +0300
Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
...
> None of you get it! Do you??? It doesn't matter what you
> think or believe, the FACT is the USA is a Republic. ...
Just like North Korea.
> ... You
> cannot change this!
Unfortunately...
--karri
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:37:14 +0100
>> > The term "representative democracy" was devised by the democratic
>> > party and the tabloid press. Repeat an error often enough and long
>> > enough and people will start to believe in the big lie.
>>
>> BS. It is a description of a system where a buncha of representatives
>> are elected (democratically) to run the country.
>>
>
> Give it a rest Ed. The fact that the people of the US choose
> representatives is not indicative of a "representative democracy." For
> the US to be a
> "representative democracy" the elected representatives would have to
> consult the people on each and every matter and cast their vote
> accordingly. This is clearly NOT the case in the US.
That's not a representative democracy, that is a democracy, period.
> In a "representative democracy" sovereign power resides in and is
> exercised by the whole body of free citizens through represenatives.
> This is clearly NOT the case in the US.
No, the representatives are elected democratically. They the npass laws
without further referendum.
> Yes, in both systems there are representatives elected by the people,
> but in the US sovereign power does not reside in, nor is it exercised by
> the whole body of free citizens. The US is clearly NOT a
> "representative democracy."
>
> We have "representatives" but this does not make the US a
> "representative democracy."
>
>
>
>> The confusion is that "democracy"=="representative democracy" which is
>> not true.
>>
>
> The only confusion lies in your incorrect understanding of the US form
> of government. We have no democracy in the US, we are a Republic!
You have a representative democarcy.
You seem to misunderstand what a representative democarcy is. Yopu are
comfusing it with a true democracy. Under the *correct* definition, the
US is definitely a representative democarcy.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:39:22 +0100
> I can tell that it is breaking your heart to come to terms with the fact
> that the USA is a republic and NOT a democracy and that your term
> "representative democracy" is nothing more than a tabloid trash
> buzzword.
i couldn't care less about the US since I'm a UK citizen and I know that
my country is a representative democracy that works in a similar way to
the US.
representative democracy is not a tabloid buzzword (but it may have been
taken up by them and "altered" in the US), it is a valid description (and
correct) of the system in place in the UK and US.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: 15 Jun 2001 12:40:50 GMT
Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <9gb4ag$isl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On 14 Jun 2001 07:12:57 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>>
>>>>Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Hating the english isnt racism, its nationalism.
>>>>
>>>>> Hating someone based on a steroetype of their race is racism.
>>>>
>>>>So "english" is a race now?
>>
>>> Erm, yes.
>>
>>>>You fucking moron. I'll bet youre engilsh.
>>>>
>>>>I dont hate *caucasians*, you ignorant swine. I hate people from
>>>>england, no matter what fucking color they are, bitch.
>>
>>> Therefore you are a racist. Goodbye: *plonk*
>>
>> Took long enough.
> Ah! I get it now!
> You're a mate of Kookis and you're trying to see who can get the most
> killfile entries. figures, really.
Not really. I just hate the english, southern italians, most germans and
a handful of swedes.
Kulkis hates everyone.
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:41:33 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Nick Condon"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>
>>Liberals? What are you on about. I think the US and UK definition of
>>Liberal must differ somewhat since you attribute many evils to them
>>which are completely unrealated, even oppersite to the things liberals
>>here want.
>
> Yeah, when Americans say "liberal" they mean something like "socialist".
> They can't say "socialist" because they've already warped that to mean
> "communist", which of course has been twisted to mean "unamerican".
>
> Unfortunately, it leaves no word for them to describe what we would call
> liberals. Libertarians are almost there, but have some illiberal kinks.
That explains quite a lot.
Thanks.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: 15 Jun 2001 12:43:39 GMT
Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> No, I understand the biological definition of 'race'. Not your fake,
>> made up, nationalistic version.
> So, what is this `biological' definition of which you speak? When does a
> nationality become a differnt race?
On the boat to ireland, about 20 miles off the coast of Rosslaire. Ask any
irish person.
Or are you saying that "british" is the race? When you say "english", do you
include welsh? Scots?
>
>>> I wasn't accusing you of hating non caucasians. I was accusing you of
>>> being racist for hating the English. There is a difference. There are
>>> planty of non caucasian Englishmen.
>>
>> Yes, and I hate them all too. Thats why I pointed out the difference.
> What have we done to make you hate us so much. not that I really care
> about the opinion of a complete fool.
Something about the inability of keeping about your own business and not worrying
about the opinions of others, I think.
=====.
--
"George Dubya Bush---the best presidency money can buy"
---obviously some Godless commie heathen faggot bastard
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:41:32 +0100
Stephen Cornell wrote:
>
> Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Thanks for the offer Doc, but an educated fellow like yourself should
> > have no problem with a search engine.
>
> I did. It's your turn to put up, or shut up.
>
Oh fer christ's sake, doc, you are a stubborn one, ain't cha?
Scroll down to: "In Recent Years"
http://www.encyclopedia.com/printablenew/04603.html
http://www.probe.org/docs/c-foreign2.html
For some strange reason they list the billions in terms of millions
ie, $14,896 million:
http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/2000/102700/Foreign_Aid.html
....
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:47:20 +0100
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > "Republican government: One in which the powers of sovereignty are
> > vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly,
> > or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers
> > are specially delegated."
> >
> > "Democracy: That form of government in which the sovereign power resides
> > in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or
> > indirectly through a system of representation."
>
> If you look at both of those carefully, the US fits under the description
> of a representative democracy and republic. Why can't something be both?
> Hint: it can.
>
> -Ed
>
In a "representative democracy" the people have sovereign power through
representatives. WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE IN THE USA!!! Seesh...
....
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:47:16 +1200
GreyCloud wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
>
>>GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Peter K�hlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Chad Myers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Who cares what you run in your home. We're talking about
>>>>>real businesses making critical decisions that effect their
>>>>>bottom line. It appears that they don't chose Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Yeah, yeah, Chad. By your definition IBM is no *real* business.
>>>>
>>>>Moron.
>>>>
>>>>Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Chads just pissed because he didn't sell off his MS stock in time last
>>>year.
>>>He must have lost at least 2/3 of its original value by now.
>>>By spreading FUD he is hoping his stock will improve.
>>>
>>>
>>I never invested in those crappy tech stocks, I have shares in Capital
>>Properties, United Networks and Auckland Airport, where I earn 11%
>>interest a year. Long term investments give the best return to those who
>>are willing to wait.
>>
>>Matthew Gardiner
>>
>
> 11%... is that all?? We were getting around 18-19% with utilities.
>
>
22% actually, I didn't look at the financial perspectus when posting the
original post, hence, it was a rectum plucked figure before.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:50:03 +1200
>>>I just think that McCaine has a grudge against bush.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I remember, when Bill Clinton went for his second term, there was a dim
>>witt who wanted to close the US up, vitually make it an eastern block
>>because "foreign competition was taking jobs away from US citizens".
>>
>>Someone should have really smacked the guy in the head with a reality stick.
>>
>>Matthew Gardiner
>>
>
> Ooohhh! Sometimes these little tidbits never get released into American
> mainstream media. Am I surprised?
>
>
Of all the places, it was on BBC World.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:53:03 +1200
>>Well, to be totally honest, it wasn't until I purchased by first PC, P75
>>with 8MB of RAM, that I found out who Microsoft were. Prior to that I
>>used by Amiga 500 exclusively for 8 years to complete all my work.
>>
>>Matthew Gardiner
>>
>
> I had an Amiga 3000. That one had a SCSI hard drive. I had Maple on it
> and that was some software at the time. Better than what win3.1 could do
> back then.
> They were fun machines.
>
Prior to getting it (the P75), I was actually tossing around the idea of
getting an Amiga 1200 AGA w/ 8MB of memory, CDROM via a squirl add-on
card, and an external hard disk, of around 40MB. Maybe I should have
got gotten it, atleast I would never needed to go through 1 year of hell
with Windows 95.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:50:27 +0100
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > *sigh* Obviously for you the devil is in the details. Please
> > read the following over and over and over until it sinks in.
>
> *huff*
>
> > http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm
> > http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2000/tst121200.htm
> >
> > Our elected representatives make decisions for the people based on what
> > they believe is in our best interest (republic), they do not tally up
> > our opinion on each matter and then decide accordingly (democracy).
>
> Yes: I didn't say it was a democracy...
>
> > As for your statement that we "democratically elect the
> > representatives," I have no idea what that means. We do elect
> > representatives.
>
> ...it is a *representative* democracy.
>
> You vote for representatives. This part is a democratic process. the
> representatives are selected in a democratic manner.
>
> You DEMOCRATICALLY select people to represent you. They are then free to
> pass laws within certain limits, but not based of further referendum.
>
> That is what a *REPRSENTATIVE* democracy is.
>
> As you can probably see a country (eg the US) can be both a republic and
> a *representative* democracy at the SAME time.
>
> Just because it is not written in the constitution, does not make it
> false.
>
> -Ed
>
Ed, Ed, Ed.... *sigh* In a "representative democracy" the people exercise
sovereign power through their representatives. WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE
IN THE USA!
....
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:55:13 +0100
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> > The term "representative democracy" was devised by the democratic
> >> > party and the tabloid press. Repeat an error often enough and long
> >> > enough and people will start to believe in the big lie.
> >>
> >> BS. It is a description of a system where a buncha of representatives
> >> are elected (democratically) to run the country.
> >>
> >
> > Give it a rest Ed. The fact that the people of the US choose
> > representatives is not indicative of a "representative democracy." For
> > the US to be a
> > "representative democracy" the elected representatives would have to
> > consult the people on each and every matter and cast their vote
> > accordingly. This is clearly NOT the case in the US.
>
> That's not a representative democracy, that is a democracy, period.
>
>
> > In a "representative democracy" sovereign power resides in and is
> > exercised by the whole body of free citizens through represenatives.
> > This is clearly NOT the case in the US.
>
> No, the representatives are elected democratically. They the npass laws
> without further referendum.
>
> > Yes, in both systems there are representatives elected by the people,
> > but in the US sovereign power does not reside in, nor is it exercised by
> > the whole body of free citizens. The US is clearly NOT a
> > "representative democracy."
> >
> > We have "representatives" but this does not make the US a
> > "representative democracy."
> >
> >
> >
> >> The confusion is that "democracy"=="representative democracy" which is
> >> not true.
> >>
> >
> > The only confusion lies in your incorrect understanding of the US form
> > of government. We have no democracy in the US, we are a Republic!
>
> You have a representative democarcy.
>
> You seem to misunderstand what a representative democarcy is. Yopu are
> comfusing it with a true democracy. Under the *correct* definition, the
> US is definitely a representative democarcy.
>
Ed, just let your epiphany moment happen without fighting it. You'll
be OK.
....
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:07:17 +1200
> Hmmm... IMO it's more of a cultural thing than anything else... but it's
> not really 'cool' for kids to be engaged by school... kids believe that
> getting grades and getting into college are more important than
> learning, so they cheat/float by.
>
> Also, kids get cynical by low teacher/child ratios. One huge problem is
> that parents are apathetic and would rather watch Survivor than go to
> PTA meetings, and they take teacher criticism of their children as
> insults and get defensive and work against the teacher rather than with
> them.
>
> My mom is a teacher so I should know.
>
At the school, who decides how the money is spent? in New Zealand,
schools are bulk funded by the government and the Board of Trustee's of
the respective school decides how the money is going to be spent. The
PTA, however, is in charge of fund raising and other non-core issues
with the school, for example, say if the BOT decide to puchase 12 new
Linux PC's (ok, I couldn't help it :) ), if the BOT cannot find the
money in the budget, they then go off to the PTA, who then draw up ways
on how to raise the money.
Regarding the teachers, do you have parent-teacher interviews in which
the teachers and parents can have one on one talk about what is
happening? Most parents know if there kid is a little toe ragg, and
they simply want to be told straight out what is happening in class, and
yes, occasionally, you will get a parent who thinks sun shines out of
their childs ass, but they, generally speaking, are in the very-very
small minority.
Regarding the grades, that is actually due to the way the tests are
setup. For example, in my class at college, there were two students who
just sucked in all the information they could, then spat it back out on
the test, however, when the "big test" came, and actually required those
principles to be put into practice, in this case, Economics, finding the
economic profit of a particular company, they failed misserably.
Children not only need to remember, by hunger for more information.
Wanting to learn more and more, and learn how to apply this information
is real world situations. That is how you keep people interested. It is
a bit like learning programming, and never touching a computer the whole
time you are learning.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
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