Tim E. Real wrote: > On March 19, 2010 06:33:32 pm [email protected] wrote: > >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:54:24PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >>> [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> And don't forget that 90% of all music that is still >>>> popular today has been produced without any form of >>>> automation, and even without the editing facilities >>>> that e.g. Ardour provides - just using 16 or 24-track >>>> tapes (and in many cases even less). If you can't do >>>> a decent fade-out manually you just have to learn and >>>> do it. Agreed, it's easier with a real P&G fader than >>>> with one you have to move by mouse. >>>> >>> Full ACK and IMO it's not up to the audio engineer to fade, but it's >>> the task of the musician to play the instrument dynamically. In most >>> cases an audio engineer makes a mix that is kept for a whole song, >>> loud and silent passages are done by the artist, not by the >>> technician. >>> >> That's certainly true for most of the music I love, >> but OTOH in practice as an audio engineer you are >> supposed to solve problems created by circumstances >> out of your control. If a singer wants to redo one >> phrase of song and it ends up being a few dB louder >> than the rest you'll have to accept that - you can't >> ask to do it again just because of that. >> > My problem exactly. Two takes are often not played the same way at the > same volume, especially considering the volume of each note played, > compared to another track. Also, guitarists like to double-track. > > Ralf is saying, if you flub a note, you haven't mastered your part! > A recording is: The artist plays, you record. End of story. > It's a much more 'live' affair, like recording an orchestra for example. > Tweaking notes! That's for pop, eh? > > It's only Rock and Roll... But I like it... Like it... Yes I do... > Solos are hard. Sometimes many takes, just to get that bad note or phrase. > So I do need cross-fading (and other automation goodies). > So in MusE it is supplied via audio automation. I agree it is a pain having > to > input the events. There may be some advances on this front coming soon from > Robert... I hope... >
I'm a "light music" musician myself. If you piece together improvised solos, it isn't improvisation any more. Anyway, it's valid to arrange solos this way, if you like it. Such takes are usually done immediately, so the main loudness always should be the same. Just cutting and putting this takes together sometimes needs cross-fading. This can be done for nearly every recording application by overlapping the recordings and defining fade outs and ins for overlapping passages. If even this doesn't work, I guess you seldom will be able to do it better by using fader automation. Sometimes just recording a new take, instead of cutting and pasting and mixing is the better way. I very often compose, arrange and mix music at the same time, being alone in my homestudio. I also know this way of making music. Sometimes I do play instruments I don't rule. The computer should enable us to make music this way. But anyway it's better to practise, practise and practise and to avoid this. Do it all the year around. I once was a good instrumentalist, had a long break and now I'm not a good instrumentalist any more. Do you know that Django Reinhardt had an accident and that he played solos with just two fingers? You concern is a valid concern, but IMO it's possible to fit together several takes and sometimes music needs exercises. I do understand what you are talking about. >> But it's no >> big deal. Either you just remember to push the fader >> at the right time, or today, using Ardour, you can >> just cut out that fragment and move it to a separate >> track with its own EQ and level. I find this a lot >> easier than using automation. >> > In MusE you can leave the fragment alone and just do some automation > tweaking for it, or move the fragment as you say to its own track with > a different volume, but you must supply any desired cross-fade automation > events, it's not as advanced as Ardour. I dunno, but perhaps for Muse it's the way like it is for Qtractor? You need to use the mouse and move the graphic of the recordings at the end and the beginning of overlapping tracks? IMO this is much easier than moving a virtual fader. But ok, everything about this was written and you prefer automation, that's ok, but you can see that some people do it without automation. It's possible, nothing is missing. Ralf _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
