On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Jostein Chr. Andersen <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thursday 27 January 2011 21.48.01 Christopher Cherrett wrote: > .... >> I could not care less if we slapped your name all over the new code we >> write. I do not have any of the same concerns you have. >> >> Want the code? I will sign over every line of code I wrote to you. I >> care nothing for the code, only what it can do. >> >> You would not fit into our camp well. We move too fast for most people. > > You - the OOM - are moving too fast for you own moral compass (if you have > any), if you are only partially that good, then you should have started a > project from scratch. > > Your unwillingness to give other people fair creds for their hard work is > amazing, and you've been in this business and environment long enough to > understand that creds is something that one gives. It's unbelievable that you > use so much time here to shit on the Ardour, Rosegarden and MuSE people in > stead of just saying "sorry our mistake, we have worked so much so we did not > think about it, but we will fix it". > > You can at least just stop to try to move the focus from what the thing is > about: -To do some crediting. > > Now, you just use energy to tell the world how bad the Ardour, Rosegarden and > MuSE people and projects are. They all wish you good luck, they are not your > enemies. > > I wish you god luck with OOM and that you can take a deep breath, calm down > and play nice with the Open Source community again. > > Jostein > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev >
This is the last i'm going to add on this. Firstly, i personally regret that i didn't include Werner's name immediately as attribution. He, along with half a dozen other devs in the community get my continued respect and admiration, not only for the quality of their work, their immense skills, and just as importantly, their willingness to interact in a user/dev relationship and discussion of equals in our own fields, with mutual agreement on functions and features, or a friendly and respectful challenge structure where the use case has to been profoundly proven, and if necessary, discarded without malice, or derisory sarcasm, and contempt. To be absolutely clear. The current MusE team, for whom i have no hard feellings at all, decided we were going too fast, with too many changes, and they were uncomfortable with the the modifications we wanted to add. They told us to fork the project and leave. We did that. And as is normal practise, as so many of you have firmly stated, that's opensource in action. Had we had a friendly reminder from those in the "community" we'd missed out the attributions, we would have been fine with that. But instead, the "team" came out the blocks with their omnipotent judgement that we'd transgressed, and were evil scum. (paraphrasing) Contrast that with the raw contempt, derision, and mocking dismissal of others who are willing to have a good laugh at testers, however clumsy they may be, and poke fun at the idea that users and devs can interact in a prosperous partnership for both. I've personally tested for at least 3 projects, day and night, providing feedback to the devs, at their request, only to be dismissed out of hand when i've turned up with reports, observations, etc... Then there's the swearing and insults when suggestions are made to improve workflow. Whether they're accepted or not, it seems that for some devs, making these suggestions is akin to telling them they're failing in some way, or the idea that improvements could be made to their app is an insult. I've personally endured hate mail, a raft of swearing and aggresive suggestion to more or less "go away", mockery, and outright dismissal out of hand from those devs who assume they know better than anyone what they think users want, and are contemptuous in their dismissal of anything else. That's up to them, but eventually those alienated users go away, with the impression this is hostile environment. some will just disappear, and others will seek to find another solution. That's fine, and those devs who seem to enjoy themselves in the Ivory tower have the right to treat people as they want. In the last 3 years, there are a handful of devs for whom I have the greatest of respect, and will continue to do so, based on a decent and intelligent user /dev relationship. They've NEVER uttered a harsh word, or spoken with any form of contempt towards what are sometimes "dumb user questions". I'm tired of the one way relationship with those who are enthusiastic to cling to their programs, dismissing out of hand, in the fear of some idea of losing something if they change it, or modify it, or, and this isn't a rare event, dismiss out of hand constructive and well presented use cases, because they don't see any value in their little world, or more appropriately, comfort zone. To be absolutely clear. I'm an altruist when it comes to OpenSource. I WANT to see devs getting credit for their work with users, and i will help in that process if i can. I bring many years of user experience on the shop floor, so to speak, and i'm more than willing to share that knowledge, as i have done for 3 years since i arrive in Linux, to see the WHOLE community go forward, and gain the respect they deserve. But i will focus my efforts with those devs who are least willing to listen, and for whom i have a great deal of respect, and if the answer's no, then it happens out of mutual respect, and not the other variety of "the answer's no, i'm not listening, chortle,chortle." I haven't named those devs who i respect and admire, because as this latest fiasco shows, they may suffer for some sort of perceived alliance with me or anyone in the OOP team, or those other user and devs in the community who have already drifted away for the same reasons i am, and code quietly and efficiently in the shadows. And just for the record. I will not take that contempt, derision, and clumsy insinuation from those who assume an self-exalted self realising omnipotent position of authority. Nor would any of you in the same position. I've already had the start of hate mail and judgemental condemnations from the acolytes, but that's a given in any group or people. Enjoy yourselves if that's what rocks your boat. The OpenOctaveProject remains committed to Opensource tools and option for both users, and devs, alike. We will continue to follow this path, and do so in the hope that we can build a base from which a stable workflow pipeline is a wonderful asset for the Linux Audio Community, as a whole, and the perception of the community, and it's reputation, is enhanced as a result. We will do this in co-operation with ANYONE who's interested in bringing together a great working environment for musicians and composers of many types, including those of us who write orchestral, radio, and film music for a living. If an app needs some love to enhance it's USERS toolset, in conjunction with other apps, as part of a consistent and reliable base that users can enjoy, and be comfortable with, then we'll help, and offer design suggestions. We've ALWAYS done that. Some devs have accepted or rejected those suggestions with intelligent discussion and some enthusiasm, and others have done exactly and often belligerently, the opposite. This is the last i'll post on this particular subject, as it's more or less wasted on those who won't consider another perspective, and frankly seem to enjoy the...."scandal" of it all. My respect for those devs who are willing to interact without contempt, derision, mockery, dismissal, swearing, paranoia, etc, remains undimmed. They know who i'm referring to, and my door is always open for another perspective, and possibly more clumsy testing, on User workflow and design, whether it's added or not. I have enjoyed many decent discussions with those skilled, intelligent, and decent people, and learned much along the way as they generously share their own opinion, and ideas. I sincerely hope that continues. Once again, i regret not adding Werner's attribution, and i offer my unreserved apologies to you, Werner, if you feel offended by this, or slighted in any way. It wasn't deliberate, or in any way an attempt to commandeer your excellent work without recognition. If OOP continues to grow at the same rate, and experienced users keep jumping on board, the recognition of your work will reach an ever widening audience, as it will for all those devs with whom we have a decent partnership, want to see succeed in a wider user base, and be recognised for their outstanding work going into the future. To the rest, who gleefully jumped in with both feet with their condemnations, judgements, and sometimes sly, sometimes deceitful, but always relentless character assassination, I don't care. I'm not interested. If that's the sum total of your existence, i feel pity for you. Enjoy yourselves, i'm back to work, and the next step forward. Alex. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
