Location, location, location. ;)You should take note that *no* commercial audio software for Linux has succeeded, and there have actually been a few nice apps for sale (Jazz and the Ultramaster RS101 come to mind).
Why do you think that was? Being closed source? (Would you have bought it if you could download it?) Too pricey? Linux cheapskates? ;) (Before WW4 starts, I exclusively use linux for my work :) )
I'd be interested to know.
Seriously, did you ever see an ad in EM or SoS or Keyboard for those products ? Me neither. So it doesn't help sales if no-one knows about your product. OTOH, I'm sure the ad budget for those products was close to zilch.
The RS101 was very neat, and there's now a group who would like to see the sources opened. Alas, the owners of the code have been rather slow about releasing it.
I don't think the prices were out of line with comparable products in Windoze, so again I'm leaning towards a lack of presence in the larger marketing world.
And the truth is that there are damned few musicians working with Linux even now, so the situation three years ago was considerably worse (WRT the target clientele).
No, no, I don't know you well enough to target you. ;-)There was a day in my youth when musicians were perceived as radical people. Alas, they seem mostly now to be happy toeing corporate lines. Perhaps Linux is a motivating influence for those musicians who still perceive themselves as truly radical, denying that public equation in favor of something better ? Just a thought...
I really hope that comment was targeted at me, i really do. You couldn't
paint a better picture of irony :)
Seriously I abhor ad hominem attacks on this or any list. IMO your original post was civil and well-stated. It was also provocative (and I hope it was meant to be) in a good way.
Mea culpa. I gathered from your post that Windows was your main OS for making music. Nothing wrong with that, but the statement that (I'm paraphrasing now) poor performance from the OS is something "par for the course" for Windoze users was taken as a sad commentary on the state of "what obedient consumers have learned to accept from software producers".So you accept a poor situation and make a virtue of it ?
Again, misinterpretation. I never said that did i? I said it was par for
the course for windows users.
It is very difficult to sell something to someone that you can also getI've heard this argument so many times for so many years, I'm starting to wonder if it really holds water. I'm not sure a company writing music software can actually generate considerable cash flow from services. What would be the nature of most of that service ? I know there are a lot of Cubase users out there, but would so many have problems enough to keep Steinberg's support lines busy generating income ? What other services do you think would generate the necessary level of income for such a company ?
for no cost. Infact, it's almost impossible if the customer knows this.
If steinberg opensourced cubase, they would not be making money on sales
of cubase. People would package them up with better installers and we'd
all be using it. What I do believe you can sell is services. This is
where the "product" becomes the tool and you sell your time and
peripheral services.
I'm sorry: MCPS ?Btw, are you making a living as a musician or a coder or both ?
I'm making a living as a coder. I will be making money from music when
the MCPS money comes through.
I'm not so sure. Ron Kuper (?) from Cakewalk/Sonar has been known to lurk here, and he's come across as truly interested in Linux audio activities. Ditto for Charlie Steinberg (though I don't know if he's a lurker or even a member of the list). It's worth noting that both those companies have come far by (along with making a good product) being responsive to their customer base. It's quite possible that they could find productive channels for contributing to open-source projects without competing against themselves. Some time ago I voiced the question "How will Cakewalk et al respond if/when Ardour starts being distributed along with M-Audio and RME boards and makes real progress in the pro-audio world ?". Ron's response was sober and solid, stating that they would respond by trying to make their products even better. These guys have an excellent grasp of market realities in what is indeed a very narrow market, they know how to make smart moves. Consider the success of VST: Steinberg created an open standard (well, open by the standards of the Windows/Mac worlds) and created a thriving community of developers and users. Everyone wins.Personally I'd be happy to see those ports, but I wouldn't go out of my way to support them unless the manufacturers bring something more to the party.
I don't think they'd ask.
It's also worth mentioning the evolving business model for Ardour. Paul has made it clear that certain features will only be added to Ardour if they're paid for, e.g. if you want MIDI capabilities in Ardour you'll get them much faster if you contribute some dinero. I don't know how well this actually working for Paul, but if it does work sufficiently well perhaps it's another aspect of Ardour that will make a little history and serve as a HOWTO for projects of similar scope. My impression has been that Paul has been looking at various ways to generate income from Ardour, it will be very interesting to see how it all works out over the next few years.
Yes, but as in my example of the food co-ops we really ought to strongly encourage a "take & give" philosophy among users. The benefits are self-evident, and there are of course many ways to contribute to open-source projects without being a developer/coder yourself.Otherwise they'll be just some more hangers on for the ride, benefiting from the work done by many of the people who populate this list.
That's the beauty of open source, it frees us to build on the shoulders
of others.
I would probably check them out just due to curiosity and to see what features I'll bug the developers for in Ardour and ecasound... ;)To each his own though, and I can easily understand why a user would want those apps on this platform.
ok, shock time: I probably wouldn't bother with these either.
Purchasing their products.OTOH, if Steiberg et al. give something back then I'm better inclined to support their products.
I don't understand what you mean by supporting them.
PS: I may just post about where i really stand on all this and maybeEven as a "Devil's advocate" post your original was a good spur towards discussion of some interesting topics. Thanks for writing it, sorry for any misapprehension on my part, and I hope we read more from you on this list.
I'll take off my devil suit ;)
Best regards,
Dave Phillips
