Linux-Development-Apps Digest #630, Volume #6 Sat, 20 May 00 10:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (David Steuber)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (David Steuber)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (haysus)
this is my first time posting on a news server :) . anyways i gotta question about
gtk-- ("joe")
Memory issues of application under Linux (Yin)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (David T. Blake)
Re: Parsing files ("Anthony W. Youngman")
Linux RAD tools now available - totally cross platform as well! ("Richard D")
Re: Capturing IP packets. Need ideas... (Stefan Schlott)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Ray)
Re: Newbie: prime my search for X11 app development ("Markus Rathmann")
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Full Name)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Full Name)
Re: Memory issues of application under Linux (Michel Bardiaux)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Doug Alcorn)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Doug Alcorn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 05:00:02 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore) writes:
' The QPL requires software be free (as in free beer). It also requires
' you to submit any software you link with QT to them, even if it is not
' distributed and from the wording it seems that they want you to give
' them unlimited rights to even your own personal (again, non
' distributed) programs that you link to Qt.
It requires your software to be GPL, if you use the Qt Free Edition.
Naturally, if you don't like that, don't use Qt.
Perhaps the project idea requested should be a free C++ library that
does what Qt does. It should probably be a clone that you can build
KDE against. Otherwise, no one may want it.
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
All bits are significant. Some bits are more significant than others.
-- Charles Babbage Orwell
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 05:00:03 GMT
"Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
' And as a result of SuSE predating RedHat, SuSE rpms are incompatible
' with RedHat ones :-( I wish they'd switch to dpkg, but I bet there would
' be incompatibilities with Debian there too - for the same reasons -
' maintaining backwards compatibility breaks sidewards compatibility :-(
It is the RPM BS that has caused me to abandon that format whenever
possible. Instead, I prefere to install software from source.
Packages that conform to the ./configure, make, make install mantra
are easy to build and put where you want them. You don't have to
worry about dependencies because ./configure should discover if
required libraries can not be found.
Granted, this is not the way most users want to operate. But until
all the distros adhere to the FHS strongly enough and stop adding
their own hacks (patches) to the code, this is the most reliable way
to go.
I've even updated GCC and libc this way. That took a while on my
hardware.
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
All bits are significant. Some bits are more significant than others.
-- Charles Babbage Orwell
------------------------------
From: haysus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 20 May 2000 00:10:04 -0500
>No distribution can put anything in /usr/local. That's for YOU to make
>non-distro-spawned additions in.
I ran Caldera 2.3 for a while (not the best idea) and I recall it
installing lots of stuff to /usr/local. Perhaps I'm wrong, it's been a
few months.
------------------------------
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: this is my first time posting on a news server :) . anyways i gotta question
about gtk--
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 06:16:44 GMT
. well im strictly a newbie, c++ programer. i want to start programming my
own web browser. if i want the program to work in gnome do i have to write
it in gtk ? . is this the best way do you think ? . is it easy to code a
client/server app in gtk--? have you ever done it before? would using the
gtk-- libraries affect performance? if so then what should i do :)
------------------------------
From: Yin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Memory issues of application under Linux
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:53:38 +0800
Can anyone gives me some hints on how to make a detail measure of
memory usage of running process under Linux?
It seems that 'top', 'ps', 'free' all gives different statistics of a
running process.
Also, I have tried to compile a program by 'gcc a.c' where a.c is:
int main(void)
{
while(1);
return 1;
}
The output is a.out.
After using 'strip' to cut down the size to 3Kb and run it, 'top' said
it used up 292Kb in Size column and 252Kb in SHARED column, 'free' said
it used up about 60Kb and 200Kb shared (Calculated by free memory before
& while running the process).
Can anyone tell me where the memory goes? Thanks alot.
Jacky
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Blake)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 20 May 2000 01:27:19 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Victor Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >:> a thing.
> >
> >: First, the Qt library _is_ now free. Trolltech decided to license it
> >: using a "free" license. Second, there already was (a now dead?)
> >
> >Not "free", just "open source". And Raimond have specially tweaked open
> >source definition, so Mozilla and Qt would pass the test.
> >In strict Stallman's sense of "free" Qt is not free.
>
> Put another way: what would or wouldn't stop you from making
> a BeOS or MacOS version?
QT licenses DONATE all derived works back to Trolltech. That
includes all modifications of the code. You literally cannot
patch the code without giving them the patch.
Further, if you modify the code, you can only distribute your
modifications as patches. Not as another version of QT. The
license actively prevents forking in this way. Only Trolltech
is allowed to release versions of QT.
Further, if you even LINK to QT, you have to make your program
more FREE than QT. You have to make your program's source
redistributable and make modifications of your program's
source redistributable.
Further, if you create a program that links with QT and
is private, behind your own firewall, you have to make its
source available to Trolltech upon request.
Consider the loss of freedom relative to the LGPL. With LGPL
you can create any program that only dynamically links with
the library, be it open source, closed source, or behind the
firewall. There is NEVER a requirement that you give copyright
from every program that links to an LGPL library to FSF.
Any LGPL program can be forked and redistributed under
a new name, as long as it remains LGPL.
I don't think QT does qualify as open source. It clearly
fails allowing the creation of derived works licensed under
the same license. If you create a derived work, Trolltech
has copyright of that work. You may only distribute it as
a patch, whereas Trolltech make take your modification and
distribute as their copyright. They own your work. Their
license is horribly tilted towards Trolltech. Should they
ever try to use these rights granted under their license,
there will be a true uproar.
--
Dave Blake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Parsing files
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:23:33 +0100
Reply-To: "Anthony W. Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
>Marc Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Does anyone know of any good documentation on parsing files in a C
>> program, specifically config files?
>
>If they're really complex config files, you can use flex, the fast
>lexical analyzer generator, and bison, a parser generator.
>
>Actually, the ease and quality of the above two programs has
>consistently lowered my definition of "really complex" until it's
>"anything that would take me more than five minutes to code support
>for." YMMV.
>
>flex and bison aside, never use scanf() (use sscanf() if you
>absolutely must) and always use strtoul() and friends instead of
>atoi() and friends.
>
flex and bison are obsolete ... :-)
Take a look at ANTLR (www.antlr.org). I don't know flex/bison and I'm
having problems with antlr (grammars and java are not something I've
studied before), but apparently it can cope with everything flex/bison
can, and a lot more besides. It's also got a newsgroup - it's the
successor to pccts and shares the pccts newsgroup (pccts came on my SuSE
6.3 CDs).
--
Anthony W. Youngman - wol at thewolery dot demon dot co dot uk
Witches are curious by definition and inquisitive by nature. She moved in. "Let
me through. I'm a nosey person.", she said, employing both elbows.
Maskerade : (c) 1995 Terry Pratchett
------------------------------
From: "Richard D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux RAD tools now available - totally cross platform as well!
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 09:50:34 +0100
All I ever hear is complaints from people about the fact that RAD technology
has not made it to Linux yet.
I am sick of waiting for the Borland Kylix product and found the following
product...
OMNIS Studio - see http://www.omnis.net
Also see a couple of independent reviews below....
OMNIS Studio is a Work of Art (ZDNet) -
http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/issue/0,4537,2421330,00.html
and OMNIS Studio brings Database Application Development to Linux
(LinuxPlanet) - http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/1710/1/
Fully OO, connects to all the big DB's and has its own if you don't have a
big requirement, and best of all, you write one set of code and with NO
recompilation it runs on all Win platforms as well, and Mac (if you are
interested in that).
Do check it out!
RD.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Schlott)
Subject: Re: Capturing IP packets. Need ideas...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Schlott)
Date: 20 May 2000 12:14:01 +0100
On Fri, 19 May 2000 13:46:58 +0200,
Julio Baixauli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Ok, I'm trying to capture IP packets from the network. The top level
>issue is to translate IPv4 to IPv6 (and viceversa) as is described in
>RFC1928 document. First, I have begun to work on libpcap packet capture
>library, but I don't understand very much. Is there any manual, FAQ,
>tutorial... something that explains me how to use it? Am I in the rigth
>way using the libpcap? Is there any other way?
Do you want to tunnel IPv4 in IPv6 (or vice versa)? If yes, libpcap
will not help you, since it simply captures IP packets without removing
them from the net. Have a look at the netfilter kernel modules; it is
really easy to catch an incoming IP packet. Process it (i.e. generate
a new packet for the opposite protocol stack), and tell netfilter to
drop it.
Hope it helps,
Stefan.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ray)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:42:18 GMT
On 19 May 2000 21:27:13 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> I want a tool that, after you put together your concept of the perfect
>>>machine, would upload a packaging description that would allow anyone else
>>>to duplicate that exact software selection so they only have to deal with
>>>the specific local configuration (IP address, users, etc.).
>>
>>On Debian that would be:
>>
>>"dpkg --get-selections > packages.dpkg" on master machine
>>"dpkg --set-selections < packages.dpkg" on new machine
>
>How graceful is it about hardware differences?
The above shouldn't change your hardware config. at all. In Debian hardware
configuration is pretty much a manual affair anyway.
> And is there
>a way to do a subsequent update (including adding/removing as
>well as updating packages) on the master so the copies can
>track along?
I imagine you could repeate the above any time you wanted to sync the client
machines' packages but I can't say I've ever tried it. Most people just use
"apt-get update" "apt-get upgrade" to keep their packages up to date. If
you have several machines that you really want to stay identical then you
might be better nfs mounting the / dir from the server or maybe using rsync.
> What if source changes are done and things
>recompiled? Can the package be rebuilt and loaded from
>an alternate location on the copies?
You can have lines in your /etc/apt/sources.list like:
deb ftp://USER:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/my_custom_debs/local
and then put any custom built packages on your ftp server.
--
Ray
------------------------------
From: "Markus Rathmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Newbie: prime my search for X11 app development
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:46:17 +0200
Dave Nulton wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>Can someone drop a few buzz words on me so I'll know what to look for.
>A few example questions are: do I need ncurses, should I focus on X11
You'll need ncurses only, if your programmes need a console interface
with cursor positioning and semi-gfx chars (lines, intersections etc).
For KDE you won't need it.
>interfaces or kde, or the window manager. Do I need to worry about
I prefer C-programming, therefore I choose GTK (GNOME) as a Widgetset.
However, KDE should offer more of the same and is the better choice
if you plan a KDE-compatible application. No need to mess with X11
or the Windowmanager...
>shared libraries or multithreading. Does the OS, window manager etc.
>handle threading? Are there any FAQs or howtos that you might recommend
>to addresses my general ignorance about X11 application development?
>
A few URLs, whre you may find more information about KDE (!) programming
or linuxprogramming:
www.linuxdev.net (Lot's of Links an a few intros)
www.kde.org (Look for a link to the developer section)
www.mosfet.org (infos about KDE (2) )
If you are looking for something similar to TurboVision, perhaps you
should have a look at
www.freshmeat.org and serach for "tvision"...
Hope that helps...
Markus
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:00:05 GMT
On 18 May 2000 12:19:01 GMT, "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>: There's just no excuse for not having an adequate installer. We have
>
>The installers I have are very adequate (make and tar). And from what
>I've seen the distros have excellenet installers too. I can understand
You can't be serious. Make and tar are "installers"???
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:05:15 GMT
On 18 May 2000 09:50:55 +0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
wrote:
>
>: 1. A streamlined, easy install process;
>
>Disagree. System should be installed by competent techinicans in
>computer shops. Windows is not any more easy to install than say
>Mandrake 7.0, only user do it much more frequently, so get used to it.
>
What can someone say to such a stupid statement.
------------------------------
From: Michel Bardiaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Memory issues of application under Linux
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:31:12 GMT
Yin wrote:
>
> Can anyone gives me some hints on how to make a detail measure of
> memory usage of running process under Linux?
> It seems that 'top', 'ps', 'free' all gives different statistics of a
> running process.
>
> Also, I have tried to compile a program by 'gcc a.c' where a.c is:
>
> int main(void)
> {
> while(1);
> return 1;
> }
>
> The output is a.out.
> After using 'strip' to cut down the size to 3Kb and run it, 'top' said
> it used up 292Kb in Size column and 252Kb in SHARED column, 'free' said
> it used up about 60Kb and 200Kb shared (Calculated by free memory before
> & while running the process).
>
> Can anyone tell me where the memory goes? Thanks alot.
>
> Jacky
"Where the memory goes": I assume you mean how does one 'bloat' from 3k
to 300K?
That your a.out is only 3k big means little; if it contained
declarations for
a large *uninitialized* global array, it would still be 3k; but the
"size"
command would show the big BSS. And a large array on the stack would not
even
be shown by "size". Moreover, the SHARED figure will be mostly code, but
from
both your app *and* all code pages in the runtime DSOs touchedduring
process
initialization; just one instruction can page in a whole page (I dont
remember
what the page size is!) That leaves the roughly 40k of unshared. In
there will be
the stack and the heap used by initialization (mostly dynamic loading of
libc),
plus some unused stack and heap since they tend to be grown by largish
increments.
If you want a small memory footprint, DSO loading is especially greedy.
Better
compile with "gcc -static a.c", compare outputs from "ls" and "size".
Also run
both the static and dynamic versions under strace and compare the
syscalls.
For the difference between ps, top and free: I dont know, better look in
the sources.
--
Michel Bardiaux
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:01:06 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name) writes:
> On 18 May 2000 12:19:01 GMT, "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >: There's just no excuse for not having an adequate installer. We have
> >
> >The installers I have are very adequate (make and tar). And from what
> >I've seen the distros have excellenet installers too. I can understand
>
> You can't be serious. Make and tar are "installers"???
>
tar xzvf package-name-X.Y-Z.tar.gz
cd package-name-X.Y-Z
./configure
make
make install
The onlything Peter left out was autoconf. Granted, not every user
wants to use this install method; however, an install method it is.
Many, many people have used it as such.
--
(__) Doug Alcorn (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.lathi.net)
oo / Win a 66GB capacity tape drive. Help me win too!
|_/ http://www.ecrix.com/extreme/getReferrals.cfm?ref=7612
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: Doug Alcorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:07:11 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name) writes:
> On 18 May 2000 09:50:55 +0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >: 1. A streamlined, easy install process;
> >
> >Disagree. System should be installed by competent techinicans in
> >computer shops. Windows is not any more easy to install than say
> >Mandrake 7.0, only user do it much more frequently, so get used to it.
> >
>
> What can someone say to such a stupid statement.
To some extent I agree. Installing an operating system is not for the
faint of heart. I would _never_ ask my mother (or my dad for that
matter) to install an operating system.
While I don't think OS installs are the exclusive domain of
technitians in computer shops, operating systems don't install
themselves. MS-Windows nearly installs itself mainly because it makes
all kinds of decisions for you. I think that Mandrake and RedHat are
fairly easy to install. I'm sure others are as well, but I've never
tried any of them. The only think I find really lacking is on screen
documentation explaining what the options mean. Mandrake tries and
makes a good effort, but still needs improvement.
--
(__) Doug Alcorn (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.lathi.net)
oo / Win a 66GB capacity tape drive. Help me win too!
|_/ http://www.ecrix.com/extreme/getReferrals.cfm?ref=7612
------------------------------
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