Linux-Development-Sys Digest #209, Volume #6 Mon, 4 Jan 99 02:14:05 EST
Contents:
Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers ("JS")
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (mlw)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Re: silly question (mlw)
Re: ESS 1869 drivers (Bhyrava Prasad)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Leslie Mikesell)
the page and buffer caches ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers ("James A. Cleland")
Re: Unresolved symbols in ufs.o (David T. Blake)
x windows redhat (User470357)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Frank Sweetser)
Re: x windows redhat (Kurt Wall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:54:24 -0600
As with most people I talk to about Windows (serious users that is), I'm
pretty frustrated with crashes when I want to do anything "out of the
ordinary" during setups. Hence, I've checked into Linux.
I have Red Hat v. 5.1. I would like to run Xwindows but I can't figure out
how to configure my video card correctly. It is an 8MB Matrox Millenium
G-200 (AGP bus).
The driver doesn't appear when I'm doing the setup so I tried selecting the
'unlisted video card' but this doesn't seem to work.
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Jim
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 05:27:26 +0000
Ken Sorensen wrote:
> Questions to Ask:
> 1. Why do apps need to be in overlapping windows?
> 2. Why does it have to be flag (not 3D)?
> 3. Why do we need a Mouse (or keyboard - it may be obvious but think about
> it...)?
> 4. There was talk of "Color-Reactive" interfaces where an application
> icon would have some indication of running, sleeping, etc.
>
> Question all of your assuptions, take nothing for granted!
These are very cool questions, here are my thoughts:
1. Overlapping Windows?
Have you ever seen Windows 1.x with tiled windows Yuck. The question is
why rectangles on a video monitor.
2. 2D? 2D represents how we look at a piece of glass, see point #1.
3. If voices were reliable and generic, voice might be good. Voice is
not ready. Handwriting is too slow, nope, currently keyboard are
required. Mice, yuck! I would love to see light pens.
4. Can you say "color blind?"
I think the current UI is a lot like stering wheels on cars. I can't
think of a more stupid paradigm directing the vehical going 80 MPH, but,
I can't come up with anything better.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 05:53:47 GMT
Frank Sweetser wrote:
>
> "Bjorn Wesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I'm working on a web based configuration tool for small Linux systems, and
> > if there would be a library that could ease the interface between the cgi
> > scripts (or whatever) and the 20's of /etc config files that are necessary
> > to config, yes that would be a Good Thing.
>
> i don't know of any such library. however, linuxconf has the same goals.
> it allows for plugins to deal with the various config styles. so, there
> would be a sysV plugin for the /etc/rc.d/ scripts, a sendmail plugin to
> sendmail.cf/aliases/etc, and so forth. it offers, command line, ncurses,
> GTK, and web interfaces - a very nice package, overall, esp once it
> stabilizes a bit.
Yickes! I never even looked at this before! It's rather nice!
/usr/lib/linuxconf on my system has tons of stuff in it, including
a whole raft of web pages. On reading some of these I discover a web
interface suppossed to be running on port 98. Does anyone know
if that actually works? RedHat 5.1
Aspects of this design are similar to what I was thinking about, i.e.
the wrapping of existing config files with one higher level interface.
I like the fact that a config can be saved/restored. Also nice is
the fact it notices files that have changed and are not consistent with
what linucconf thinks should be there.
It appears that the program can be invoked from a CLI and perhaps
over the network. Anyone know the details of the security
model used? Can it do a PGP based config change, or any other kind
of authenticated/encripted change?
Anyone know what the GTK interface is like, is that just a gui interface
or is it a CORBA based interface?
Are there any plans to extend this to cover user applications instead of
just system ones? i.e. when fired up linuxconf could check the user id
to see which panels to activate(config/control/apps?)?
Modules could be written for the various apps, and perhaps a
standard could be decided upon for newer apps to use. Perhaps
a standard config component could be written that is invoked
by apps when users want to change preferences.
I'm wondering if this has sufficient framework and extensibility
to be "the" app config tool?
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: silly question
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 05:32:14 +0000
Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>
> Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Taso Hatzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > ebatchelor wrote:
> >
> > >> Why the convoluted, hard to recall, someone thought it was funny in 1975
> > >> utility names? It seems to me that BASH could be easily recoded to
> > >> include easy to use and remember identifiers without giving up ANY
> >
> > > Recoding bash or any existing shell is not on, but if there are enough
> > > DOS-ophiles out there, why not produce a DOS COMMAND shell for Linux?
>
> > Now that would be truly perverse. Spend time to make a usable system
> > unusable. Perverse.
>
> It'd be fun tho' :)
>
> --
> Tristan Wibberley Linux is a registered trademark
> of Linus Torvalds.
Actually, I would love to see Xcopy on Linux. "xcopy /s /e /h /c this
there" would be great. As for command.com, NO stop, you can't do that it
is evil.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Bhyrava Prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ESS 1869 drivers
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 11:23:09 +0530
The way I got this to work is to remove /etc/isapnp.conf
because my PNP BIOS always sets up the card in the same
way. Then I used the soundblaster module under
Redhat (5.0 and 5.2) and gave it the right IRQ and DMA.
Soundblaster needs two DMAs , so I gave it the second DMA
anyway. But it works fine.
My /etc/conf.modules file has
alias sound sb
options -k sb io=0x220 irq=5 dma=1,5
alias midi opl3
options -k opl3 io=0x388
This works great with ESS1869.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 4 Jan 1999 00:08:34 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Yickes! I never even looked at this before! It's rather nice!
>
>/usr/lib/linuxconf on my system has tons of stuff in it, including
>a whole raft of web pages. On reading some of these I discover a web
>interface suppossed to be running on port 98. Does anyone know
>if that actually works? RedHat 5.1
Another package you might want to investigate is 'webmin' at
http://www.webmin.com/webmin/. It is less Linux-oriented
and includes an interface for DNS zone files.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: the page and buffer caches
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 05:28:47 GMT
In "The Linux Kernel (by David A Rusling)",
3.8.1 Reducing the Size of the Page and Buffer Caches
...
The Page Cache, which contains pages of memory mapped files, ...
Likewise the Buffer Cache, which contains buffers read from or being
written to physical devices, ...
...
I wonder the difference the page cache and the buffer cache.
Please answer me what...
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 06:11:49 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > This is not 1985, computers are not just used by experts. As far as the
> linux
> > > kernel, see above.
> > >
> > I missed the first part of this thread, so forgive me if I'm reiterating
> > something already covered. Your comment above is correct, but "dumbing
> > down" the user interface isn't the answer (ask anyone involved in hiring
> > how well it's worked in our schools). The appropriate answer, IMNSHO,
> > is to provide the tools needed for the non-expert to easily learn how to
> > do the required modifications to make his system work as desired. Both
> > Windows and Linux are lacking here.
>
> Absolutely. That's where I'm coming from. We cant get there until everything
> works in a defined way though, that's where the central config database comes
> in.
>
Step up one level and think about accessing the information via some
standard "view" and access procedures. i.e. if all values are defined
as
name
type
value
then a basic interface can consist of
value = name.get()
name.set( value );
If a service is running that knows how to do a get/set on an object
of that type, then it does not matter if the data is centralized.
Other aspects such as syncronization/authentication/... can be
wrapped around the above basic interface to provide any desired
level of service.
If you have the time take a look at SNMP and MIB's as a model,
and then also CORBA to provide the framework. These are solutions
to this kind of problem.
> > But your car and your stereo are both essentially single purpose tools.
> > As was said a long time ago, the computer should have been named "the
> > all-purpose tool". BTW, do you change oil, plugs, filters, etc. without
> > either a manual or prior experience?
>
> I dont want to debate the validity of my hastily thought-of example. What I'm
> advoating here is putting all the engine parts under one hood, instead of
> strewn about the car.
>
> > While I don't claim anything is impossible, simplicity and flexibility
> > are usually mutually exclusive goals.
>
> I think this is true, I think the system should be such that all of the
> complexity and flexibility is there, but it's organized in layers such that
> an experte can do all the way down, where as a novice will only understand
> and only need a few levels. It should get more complicated the deeper you go,
> and the flexibility should increases. I dont know if a central config
> database is a vehicle to bring this, but IMHO it's a good start.
I agree with most of what you say, just detach the schema form the actual
storage and replace the SQL with a simpler query language. i.e. interject
a layer that does translation to/from the actual storage mechanism/format.
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 06:24:45 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <76mq45$93n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote:
> .
> >
> > Sure, but that means it will have to be just as complex as the existing
> > system and even fewer people will understand it.
>
> I dont know the specifics of how sendmail parses it's config file, but other
> than the actual rulesets, most other config options are well defined and
> predictable. M lines can only have so many options, D and C and F lines
> generally contain a single word, sometimes a list of words that are all the
> same type of data. The rulesets are the only tricky part here. Since most
> rulesets are beyond the capacity of normal users there's nothing preventing
> them form just being blocks of text lines in the database, so sendmail can
> retain it's power. If you need to add or modify a rule, add a line of text to
> the apropriate ruleset. I dont want to take anyone's power away, What I'm
> talking about is organizing all of the text files into a central place or
> system. Imagine the sendmail.cf as a tree, with rulesets all being leaves,
> macros being a leaf, C-lines as a leaf, etc... My point is, there are better
> ways to do things than laying them out in a single flat file. You dont need
> to change the way sendmail works to better organize it's information.
>
Well the flat file representation of a tree is generally not a pretty sight!
It should be irrelvant though! If you have a tool that maps it to a
more natural format that better represents what the actual structure
of the information is, then it becomes easier to understand and to work
with.
I would rather the raw storage be ASCII, where I can at least read/edit
it without a special tool. If it were a binary file then it is
even less easy to read!
> >
> > You can bring the system up in single user mode to fix things in some
> > circumstances. In slightly worse cases you can boot from a floppy
> > with a small toolkit and rebuild most things with just a text editor.
> > How do you propose to fix a registry based system when its database
> > is damaged to a point that it won't run? Is this something you expect
> > to fit on an already crowded floppy?
>
> Doesn't it logically follow that if configuration is done through one API or
> one system that the boot floppy would not be so crowded?
In the current system the files are like DB chunks that are clustered in
locals of similar importance/functionality. If you put this all in
one file you lose that. If you put it in a DB you can acheive the same
thing by using multiple DB's, chunks, clusters, ... Then you *need* a DB
to read the data. In most cases the power of a DB is not needed for
slow changing, stable, infrequently accessed data.
The more dynamic, the more the data is accessed, the more the need for
a DB. Don't try to force it where it's not needed.
Don't get me wrong, I think a DB is very useful in some situations,
i.e. large systems/networks, but you need to be aware of the trade offs.
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: "James A. Cleland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Matrox Millenium G-200 Drivers
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 01:34:31 -0500
JS wrote:
> I have Red Hat v. 5.1. I would like to run Xwindows but I can't figure out
> how to configure my video card correctly. It is an 8MB Matrox Millenium
> G-200 (AGP bus).
The XFree86 3.3.2 version that ships with RH5.1 doesn't support the G200
chipset AGP. What you can do is update your XFree to 3.3.3. I'm pretty sure it
supports the G200 AGP. Check out the xfree86.org website and look at the
release notes for Matrox cards. I'll bet you find your card is supported in
3.3.3. I would also bet that someone else will respond to this post and
confirm this in short order.
OR you could purchase Accelerated-X which is what I'm using with my 16meg
Millennium G200 AGP. It's a pretty fast server and the configuration is
brain-dead simple. I ran the install, ran the GUI setup (select your card,
select your monitor, select your bpp), and ran the server. Simple as that. In
fact, the new release coming out soon will autodetect your hardware, I hear.
Can't beat that.
James
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Blake)
Subject: Re: Unresolved symbols in ufs.o
Date: 03 Jan 1999 22:23:41 -0800
David Ronis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I just finished installing 2.2.0-pre4. It runs, but I get the
>following problem from depmod:
>bash-2.02# /sbin/depmod -a
>/lib/modules/2.2.0-pre4/fs/ufs.o: unresolved symbol(s)
Did you do
cd /lib/modules
rm -r 2.2*
cd /usr/src/linux-2.2
make dep; make clean; make modules; make modules_install
??
Do you need ufs ??
--
Dave Blake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (User470357)
Subject: x windows redhat
Date: 4 Jan 1999 06:43:06 GMT
5.1
I have redhat on a 225cds satellite toshiba labtop. I can't get x windows up
and running the trouble is I can't find the Hor and ver refresh rates, the
mannual, tech line, and web site don't give them out. Linux is the only thing
currently installed on the box.
---> the web page does give this out "(Refresh Rate @ 800x600/ 64K colors
Non-Interlaced : Vert.: 85 Hz)" but not the hor rate
the LCD is 12.1 siagonal Dual scan Passive Matrix Color
Dot pitch .30mm x .30mm /contrast ratio: 27.1. avg Internal resolution 800 x
600
64kcolors
video Chips and tech. F65554 2mb (is picked up by auto probe)
(225 is not listed on common web sites that give out configs)
thank you for any help you can give please E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 04 Jan 1999 01:43:33 -0500
George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Frank Sweetser wrote:
> >
> > "Bjorn Wesen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > I'm working on a web based configuration tool for small Linux systems, and
> > > if there would be a library that could ease the interface between the cgi
> > > scripts (or whatever) and the 20's of /etc config files that are necessary
> > > to config, yes that would be a Good Thing.
> >
> > i don't know of any such library. however, linuxconf has the same goals.
> > it allows for plugins to deal with the various config styles. so, there
> > would be a sysV plugin for the /etc/rc.d/ scripts, a sendmail plugin to
> > sendmail.cf/aliases/etc, and so forth. it offers, command line, ncurses,
> > GTK, and web interfaces - a very nice package, overall, esp once it
> > stabilizes a bit.
>
> Yickes! I never even looked at this before! It's rather nice!
>
> /usr/lib/linuxconf on my system has tons of stuff in it, including
> a whole raft of web pages. On reading some of these I discover a web
> interface suppossed to be running on port 98. Does anyone know
> if that actually works? RedHat 5.1
didn't try it in 5.1, but it works okay in 5.2. you need to add
linuxconf 98/tcp
to /etc/services if it's not already there, and
linuxconf stream tcp wait root /bin/linuxconf linuxconf --http
to /etc/inetd.conf. restart inetd, and point your browser to port 98...
> Aspects of this design are similar to what I was thinking about, i.e.
> the wrapping of existing config files with one higher level interface.
>
> I like the fact that a config can be saved/restored. Also nice is
> the fact it notices files that have changed and are not consistent with
> what linucconf thinks should be there.
>
> It appears that the program can be invoked from a CLI and perhaps
> over the network. Anyone know the details of the security
> model used? Can it do a PGP based config change, or any other kind
> of authenticated/encripted change?
don't think there is much of one ATM - definatelly could be a problem...
> Anyone know what the GTK interface is like, is that just a gui interface
> or is it a CORBA based interface?
just a GUI.
> Are there any plans to extend this to cover user applications instead of
> just system ones? i.e. when fired up linuxconf could check the user id
> to see which panels to activate(config/control/apps?)?
>
> Modules could be written for the various apps, and perhaps a
> standard could be decided upon for newer apps to use. Perhaps
> a standard config component could be written that is invoked
> by apps when users want to change preferences.
hrm... i know that there can be modified behavior for root vs normal users,
so i don't see why not. after all, it's only a matter of opinion of what
makes a 'system configuration' vs 'app configuration'.
> I'm wondering if this has sufficient framework and extensibility
> to be "the" app config tool?
it's certainly the closest thing i've seen so far.
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.0pre3 i586 | at public servers
Love makes the world go 'round, with a little help from
intrinsic angular momentum.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kurt Wall)
Subject: Re: x windows redhat
Date: 4 Jan 1999 06:51:04 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using recycled bits, User470357 blurted out:
%
%5.1
% I have redhat on a 225cds satellite toshiba labtop. I can't get x windows up
%and running the trouble is I can't find the Hor and ver refresh rates, the
%mannual, tech line, and web site don't give them out. Linux is the only thing
%currently installed on the box.
comp.os.linux.development.system discusses Linux system development.
Perchance you would have better luck in comp.os.linux.x or maybe in
comp.os.linux.setup?
--
Kurt Wall
Informix on Linux FAQ - http://www.xmission.com/~kwall/iolfaq.html
Spanish Translation - http://www.xmission.com/~kwall/iolfaqsp.html
------------------------------
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