Linux-Development-Sys Digest #238, Volume #6 Fri, 8 Jan 99 19:14:12 EST
Contents:
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (Sami Tikka)
cdrom informations ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
TCP send & Receive Buffer limit ("Umesh Kumar V. Rajasekaran")
Re: Open Storage of Application Configuration (was Registry Thread) (George
MacDonald)
Raiding Under Linux? ("ncc1701d")
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (George MacDonald)
Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea (Christopher B. Browne)
(bug fix) Re: 2.2.0-pre5 problem with ip_masq.c (Nathan Myers)
2.2.0-pre5: Problem with ppp (Michael Keller)
Re: Escape sequences and slang?? (Nix)
Re: GUI, The Next Generation (Paul D. Smith)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (jedi)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (Matthew Kirkcaldie)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sami Tikka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:57:42 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Ken Sorensen wrote:
> Questions to Ask:
> 1. Why do apps need to be in overlapping windows?
Actually, I've been thinking that overlapping windows are a major hassle.
You have to waste time and energy in positioning them and resizing them.
Full-screen console windows aren't so bad for text-only work.
I once saw the Sun JavaStation UI and I quite liked it. You had an
application launch bar on the left and the rest of the screen was devoted
to one application only.
Actually, I sometimes (not often) need to view two windows at once
(reading a manual page while coding). In these rare occations it would be
nice to be able to tile these two applications side-by-side or on top of
each other.
I am sad to see the sorry state that svgalib is in today. I really hope
that the GGI project flies and makes working with the console windows a
possibility. Remember, console doesn't rule out graphical applications.
One can still have programs like the Gimp running on a virtual console.
Granted, the interface might need a bit of re-thinking.
> 3. Why do we need a Mouse (or keyboard - it may be obvious but think about
> it...)?
I really hate to take my hands off the keyboard. I can touch-type pretty
well and whenever I take my right hand off the keyboard and bring it back
after a mouse movement, it takes some time to find the right place.
Something else is needed. Perhaps a system that tracks eye movements when
a special key is pressed on the keyboard.
> 4. There was talk of "Color-Reactive" interfaces where an application
> icon would have some indication of running, sleeping, etc.
If we are to use the windows paradigm, there's one feature which I have
often wondered why it is missing: shrinking and growing windows. It would
be really nice to be able to shrink non-active windows. Not to minimize
them by turning them into icons or sending them to the taskbar. Not to
"shade" them by hiding the window and leaving only the title bar. What I
really mean is make the window shrink. Preferably shrink and fly off to
suitable unused spot at the edge of the screen. The active application
would grow and fly to the center of the screen.
I used to know a guy who used a lot of xterm windows and he kept them all
in sight by just making the font of the non-active windows a lot smaller.
I think there was a font called "unreadable".
Sometimes it would be nice if you resized a window and it wouldn't change
the size of the area represented by that window but just draw everything
in that window to be larger or smaller. See what happens when you resize
the xlogo application and you'll get my drift. Of course, sometimes you
actually want to see more of the window's contents and then you should be
able to do resizing the way it is done today.
--
Sami Tikka, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.iki.fi/sti/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: cdrom informations
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:12:00 GMT
I'm trying to read information from cdrom's and i'd like to know how i can
read a seraial number from the cdrom if it exists (i think so it'called "the
universal product number" i hope it makes each cdrom unique)
I'd like some c language samples
Thank you very much
If you could answer to my e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
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------------------------------
From: "Umesh Kumar V. Rajasekaran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: TCP send & Receive Buffer limit
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:45:04 -0500
Hi,
I would like to know how to increase the send & receive buffers
maintained by the TCP/IP. I know that one can increase it by using
setsockopt(SocketFd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_SNDBUF, sendBufSizePtr, length)
setsockopt(SocketFD, SOL_SOCKET, SO_RCVBUF, recvBufSizePtr, length)
But it does not allow me to increase it beyond 65535 bytes. Is there
anyway to increase the buffer to like 1Mbytes or something.
If I increase it more than 65535 bytes and try to use getsockopt to
check the size of the buffer, it always returns 131070 (I guess
send+receive). but not beyond that.
I have heard of TCP Window Scaling option at the connection
establishment phase to go beyond the 16-bit limit in the TCP header. But
don't know how to increase it exactly.
can somebody help on this please.
Thanks
Umesh
--
Umesh Kumar V. Rajasekaran
Software Development Engineer II
FORE Systems, Inc.
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Open Storage of Application Configuration (was Registry Thread)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:33:22 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Johan Kullstam writes:
> > put user application configuration in /usr/etc.
>
> That could be awkward when /usr is mounted r/o and/or NFS. Everything
> local to a particular box should be in /etc. Look at the FHS.
>
> > also, there's no need for the `conf.d' part. simply being part of /etc
> > means its a configuration file. the `d' can maybe stay but i think
> > that's redundant too.
>
> Usually, the `d' means that there is a script somewhere that runs
> `run-parts' over the scripts in the directory.
>
> > if the application has *one* configuration file, it could be a straight
> > file under the appropriate etc directory. if the application >has more
> > than one file, make a directory.
>
> It may be better to create the directory anyway, in case the application
> acquires more files in the future.
Hmm,
The ".d" looks like a naming convention used to distiguish between a
file and a directory that would otherwise bear the same name. I think
the first use was simply to note the distinction between
/etc/rc and a directory that was replacing it
Red Hat seems to have used it also for /etc/logrotate.d ,
/etc/profile.d and /etc/pam.d
Was there a /etc/logrotate or a /etc/pam before?
Well it doesn't much matter to me, a /etc/opStore or /etc/opStore.d
is fine. I would like to have the /etc/opStore.conf though.
Also longer term I was thinking of defining other "stores" i.e
opStore
|
|
V
OpenStore = UserStore + AppStore + SystemStore + NetStore ( + otherStores)
Where the UserStore is user specific, System store handles system
related info(hostname info, passwd, file system, ...)
AppStore handles the application specific info(i.e. default settings),
NetStore handles things stored on the network.
The UsersStore has it's own data, pulls in data from the other stores,
and/or defines "views" into the other stores to define how to get the data.
The various stores would be configured in the /etc/opStore.conf file.
i.e.
AppStore: /usr/etc/AppStore
or
AppStore: /usr/local/lib/AppStore
B.t.w. I just checked with the companay that uses the name www.openstore.com
and they said it was ok if we wanted to use www.openstore.org! So I
was thinking of expanding the name to OpenStore. What do you think?
I think Frank is correct in puting the "configuration about where to get
the application configuration info" in /etc/opStore.d . I would also
like to allow the definition of macros in opStore.conf that can
be used in the /etc/opStore.d files. For example it would be nice to
define common "switch" settings, perhaps to define a "mobile",
"dockedAtHome", "dockedAtWork" macros that define
the "how to find config info" settings for each of those contexts.
Something is gelling, oops paradigmmmmm shiiiiifffffttttttttttt ... *
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: "ncc1701d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.dev.kernel,linux.dev.raid
Subject: Raiding Under Linux?
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:35:14 -0600
Hi Guys.
Got a few questions and was wondering if anyone could help me out. I know
that Raiding under Linux is supported, but I need to know a few specifics:
1. Does the Linux version of Raid1 (Mirroring) implement a first read
status? In other words, do both drives in the mirrored set get used for
reading as well as writing, thus boosting performance in the mirrored set?
2. If not 1, does the mirroring work as an interleaved operation, the kernel
requests data from a mirrored drive every other request?
3. If not 2, in a mirrored situation does the kernel just use the secondary
drive for writing unless the primary fails, at which time the kernel
switches over to the secondary drive for all IO?
Then as far as faulted mirrors are concerned, what happens?
1. If a drive fails, does the kernel just throw a message on the
screen/syslog?
2. Does it start a rebuild of the failed drive after formatting? (I HOPE I
HOPE :)
3. Is a rebuild an interactive situation, where one must pull the bad drive
and reimplement the mirror using the command line tools?
Those are pretty much my main questions. I'm fooling around with Raiding
right now on some of my Linux boxes, but I thought I would post the
questions to see what I can dig up. I would really like to use Linux for
some of my applications, and would like to keep just commodity based
hardware in the machine, avoiding hardware solutions if possible. I know
that a lot of this is really CPU dependent, but it would be so great if the
mirroring was all automatic after implementing it for the first time. Also
is the raid software in 2.2 going to be finalized after the initial REAL
release of 2.2 comes out. It's my understanding that the raiding built into
the kernel is beta still... Is this right?
Of Course I'm probably dreaming when it comes to my wants for Linux,
preferably I would love it if someone would respond back saying that Linux
supports options 1 and 2 from the above list :) Is there someone that has a
web page or three pertaining to Raiding under Linux, or is it still
something kind of exotic under Linux?
Thanks for whatever light you can shed on the subject.
Jason
PS I know that this is a raid question, but the development system ng is so
much more popular among people :)
------------------------------
From: George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:53:12 GMT
Frank Sweetser wrote:
>
> Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > George MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Nice solution! That handles the new conventions on linux perfectly.
> > > Linux seems a bit more organized and better thought out than other
> > > unix implementations, well at least with regards to configuration.
> > >
> > > I would like one file that is higher up than than appconf.d that
> > > allows the location of appconf.d to be configured. My reasoning is that
> > > on other unix's the /etc area is in root is sometimes quite small, so may
> > > not be capabable of holding it. I can envisage other systems
> > > wanting to put the "appconf.d" directory in /usr/lib or usr/share,
> > > ... I kind of like the linux way, but perhaps we should allow for
> > > the placement elsewhere.
> >
> > put user application configuration in /usr/etc. place systems/boot
> > stuff in /etc. this mirrors the /usr/bin v /bin and /usr/sbin v /sbin
> > splits.
>
> only the top level metadata file has to be known before hand, probably a
> compile time setting. everything else can be specified in there, making it
> just local policy.
>
> > also, there's no need for the `conf.d' part. simply being part of
> > /etc means its a configuration file. the `d' can maybe stay but i
> > think that's redundant too.
>
> <shrug> that's just the naming convention redhat uses, so that's why i
> suggested it.
>
> > if the application has *one* configuration file, it could be a
> > straight file under the appropriate etc directory. if the application
> > has more than one file, make a directory.
>
> not neccessary. the /etc/opStore.d/<app> file does not contain the
> settings for <app>, it only contains information on the location(s) to get
> the settings for <app>.
>
> > it it not so clear how to manage shared data, i.e., two applications
> > want the same data (e.g., bash and csh both want a default path. i'd
> > be nice to maintain one and have the other follow automatically).
> > perhaps links (hard or soft) would be useful.
>
> make a "shells" configuration category. opStore.d/bash, opStore.d/csh, etc
> would then just including the shells config category and automagically get
> access to the default path, along with any other settings needed to be
> shared. however, the path is something generic enough that i think it
> should go in a global category.
>
> which suggests another feature - instead of each layer only having the
> option of accepting/replacing the previous level's value, it might also
> want to re-write it. ie, take the organization default path, add any
> system local paths, etc etc.
Yeah I had a similar thought, if a variable/field/attribute can be overriden
at a particular level then, if it is a list, the items in the list should
be modifiable with one or more of add/delete/replace methods. Note
one value in a list, is a short list.
--
We stand on the shoulders of those giants who coded before.
Build a good layer, stand strong, and prepare for the next wave.
Guide those who come after you, give them your shoulder, lend them your code.
Code well and live! - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (7th Coding Battalion)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Registry for Linux - Bad idea
Date: 8 Jan 1999 02:13:29 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 07:24:33 GMT, Alexander Viro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>John R. Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> There is a *known* workaround to a registry- and it is a proven
>> technology. While we whine and moan about the difficulty of
>> dealing with it's file's, the MacOS implements all registry-like
>> functions within the resource forks of files.
>>
>> I'm of the opinion that _this_ data/resource forking of file
>> structures will be the "next big thing" for Linux to embrace;
>> If we embed registry information into either the executables
>> or data files, we can more easily maintain synchronicity.
>
> Wake me up when you'll patch vi so that it could deal with that,
>erm, stuff. Ditto for tar, sed, grep, awk, ftpd, yodda, yodda.
The MacOS approach works nicely enough in the context of a single
user, single tasking system.
Unfortunately, with many applications, many users, and many kinds of
"documents" being out there at once, there are too many links needed
for a mere one fork.
The associations are more "general" than you'd expect.
Data may associated assortedly with:
a) A document,
b) An application,
c) A host,
d) A user,
e) A group of users
f) A "site" (e.g. - multiple machines)
Forcing this into a "fork" quickly means that you need a whole *pile*
of patches, distributed in lots of directions.
Only a) and b) can be readily associated with a "data fork" that is
attacked to a file.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to Linux today?..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Subject: (bug fix) Re: 2.2.0-pre5 problem with ip_masq.c
Date: 7 Jan 1999 16:18:30 -0800
Harry<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bryan Franklin wrote in message <771nom$c1a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>I just tried to compile 2.2.0-pre5 with the same options that I compiled
>>pre4 with and I get the following errors:
>>ip_masq.c:544: `IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE' undeclared (first use this function)
>
>Putting
>#define IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE 0x0010 /* loose dest binding */
>
>in include/net/ip_masq.h let me compile the kernel.
... but with wrong results. The -ac1 patch has :
=========================================================
--- linux.vanilla/include/net/ip_masq.h Sun Nov 8 15:07:02 1998
+++ linux.ac/include/net/ip_masq.h Wed Jan 6 23:54:03 1999
@@ -48,7 +48,8 @@
#define IP_MASQ_F_NO_SADDR 0x0004 /* no sport set yet */
#define IP_MASQ_F_NO_SPORT 0x0008 /* no sport set yet */
-#define IP_MASQ_F_NO_REPLY 0x0010 /* no reply yet from outside */
+#define IP_MASQ_F_DLOOSE 0x0010 /* loose dest binding */
+#define IP_MASQ_F_NO_REPLY 0x0080 /* no reply yet from outside */
#define IP_MASQ_F_HASHED 0x0100 /* hashed entry */
#define IP_MASQ_F_OUT_SEQ 0x0200 /* must do output seq adjust */
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: Michael Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2.2.0-pre5: Problem with ppp
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:32:04 +0100
I just compiled the Kernel 2.2.0-pre5 on my S.u.S.E. 5.3 installation
successfully.
Booting with it, my ppp connection behaves as follows:
The modem (analogue) dials, establishes the handshake with my ISP, but
right after that, it hangs up, and there is the following error log:
pppd[xx] ioctl(SIOCADDRT) device route: Network is down
diald[yy] Nonzero exit status (7) on command /sbin/route add 127.0.0.2
metric 1 dev sl0
diald[yy] Nonzero exit status (7) on command /sbin/route add default
metric 1 dev sl0
diald[yy] Nonzero exit status (7) on command /sbin/route add 127.0.0.2
metric 1 dev sl0
diald[yy] Nonzero exit status (7) on command /sbin/route add default
metric 1 dev sl0
If I reboot and load my old S.u.S.E. 2.0.35 kernel, the dilaup is
working with the same configuration without any problems.
What can I do?
Michael Keller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP Public Key:
Length: 2048, Key ID: 85EE21DD
Fingerprint:
FB 01 13 1D EE F1 15 8E 32 C5 B8 F8 88 45 31 34
------------------------------
From: Nix <$}xin{[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Escape sequences and slang??
Date: 08 Jan 1999 04:17:47 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Thanks, the problem turned out to be my code, I had:
>
> printf ("\033]P7505050");
> init_the_lib ();
>
> This of course works much better if you flush stdout after the printf!
> Adding a \n to the printf fixed the problem.
ITYM `kludged around the problem'.
Do an `fflush (stdout);' to be sure; not all environments are
line-buffered.
--
`Anyone who says you can have a lot of widely dispersed people hack
away on a complicated piece of code and avoid total anarchy has never
managed a software project.' - Andy Tanenbaum in 1992 on comp.os.minix
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GUI, The Next Generation
Date: 08 Jan 1999 18:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
%% Sami Tikka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
st> On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Ken Sorensen wrote:
>> 1. Why do apps need to be in overlapping windows?
st> Actually, I've been thinking that overlapping windows are a major
st> hassle. You have to waste time and energy in positioning them and
st> resizing them. Full-screen console windows aren't so bad for
st> text-only work.
If you don't want overlapping windows, go get Andrew (a windowing system
that runs on X). As best I recall from when I used it at CMU it didn't
use overlapping windows.
The source is free and I'm sure you can find RPM's or other packages
pre-built for Linux.
--
===============================================================================
Paul D. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
===============================================================================
These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:30:23 -0800
On 7 Jan 1999 17:37:50 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>>
>> Troll Tech, whatever you or I might think of them, are
>> still just a company. Idealism and wishful thinking
>> won't alter that or change the constraints that companies
>> operate under.
>
>so, are you saying there should be no companies who work for profit??
>
>if eveything is free, companies will close, and there will be no jobs.
>
>is that what you want? no jobs?
You do understand the distinction between an application,
an API or the OS do you not? I would imagine not since you're
a Windows cheerleader.
>
>this is the free and great capitalist country we live in, where companies
>are created to make wealth for its stock holders, to employ people and
>to spread the American dream far and wide.
That's why one should not trust a corporation as far as
one could throw it's board or it's shareholders. Like
most groups of humans, such groups often resemble a lynch
mob with the CEO and board as potential tree ornaments.
>
>I for sure do not mind, and very happy to pay for my software products,
>becuase I know when I do that, I am helping a company make some profit,
>which in turn give people money to buy something I might make one day, and
>therefor we all prosper and gain wealth and happeniss.
>
>This is why I buy these Linux distrubtions from Fry's where I know the prices
>are higher and where I know I can get Linux for free if I wanted to. But I
>dont. I want to pay for it.
>
>Look live the American dream.
The american dream is not despotism. Therefore, we should
not tolerate such things in our economies or encourage them
to be formed.
I've spent considerably more on Linux software, commercial
or otherwise, so spare me pseudo-capitalist tripe.
--
Herding Humans ~ Herding Cats
Neither will do a thing unless they really want to, or |||
is coerced to the point where it will scratch your eyes out / | \
as soon as your grip slips.
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Kirkcaldie)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 05:59:38 GMT
John wrote:
>I agree completely, UNIX and LINUX do not have the ease of config.
>that WINXX does. I personally feel that the speed and stability far
>outweighs that one point, plus what I have learned using LINUX about
>computer hardware and software is incredible and could never have
>happened using MS products. It seems to me this person feels ease of
>use is the most important thing, and for him, at this point anyways, LINUX
>isn't fulfilling that expectation. There isn't a problem with that, but don't
>condem UNIX's for that one thing and remember that what seems like
>needless configurations to you is what really turns other people onto this
>OS, and also enables this OS to perform tasks that MS products only
>wish they could do.
I find it amazing that the same arguments that can be used to pitch the
superiority of MacOS to Windows, and are regularly ridiculed by Windows
fanatics, are grabbed and pushed to the front when Linux comes along with
its true grunt and stability. If you really, really like ease of
configuration and the speedy ability to get your work done, and don't mind
the odd snarl or instability, you'd choose the MacOS, where it was done
first and done right. If you don't mind a learning curve but want your
computer to be stable all the time and get more done on given hardware,
you'd choose one of the Unices or something like that. Or maybe MacOS X
when it finally limps out the door. Why you'd choose Windows is well
beyond me, other than (1) lots of games, (2) everybody else is using it,
or (3) some minor app that has no MacOS equivalent. In seventeen years of
computer use, programming, research, graphic design and journalism, I've
never come across one.
Matthew.
------------------------------
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