Linux-Development-Sys Digest #304, Volume #6 Tue, 19 Jan 99 07:19:24 EST
Contents:
Re: 2.2.0pre7ac patches (Peter Samuelson)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Michael Powe)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (Christopher Browne)
Re: LILO and 10 GB drives (Dr A O V Le Blanc)
Re: 2.2.0pre7ac patches (Peter Samuelson)
Printer Problem (Peter Harrison)
Re: disheartened gnome developer (jedi)
Re: SysV vs. BSD ps Re: - deprecated - why? (Marc Slemko)
Re: 2.2.0-pre7 and APM - system clock loses time! (Bernd Woltermann)
introduction on device driver programming (Joerg Schueler)
Re: What does this traceroute output mean? (Martin Kahlert)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Subject: Re: 2.2.0pre7ac patches
Date: 18 Jan 1999 22:01:22 -0600
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Neil Schemenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> Ignore the instructions in the README file. This is the proper way
> to apply patchs:
> $ cd /usr/local/src/linux
> $ bz2cat ../patch-XXX | patch -p1
One of my favorite pet peeves: people who recommend patching with -p0
instead of -p1. Actually I use -Ep1 which should not be strictly
necessary but never hurts. Any README or HOWTO that recommends using
-p0 (or no -p) is fundamentally broken; either that or the patch is
relative to the wrong directory, which means the patch is broken.
> Extra credit if you can explain why this is better.
So that your source tree doesn't have to start with a directory with a
particular name ("linux"). Perhaps most people use /usr/src/linux, but
this is impossible if (like me) you have more than one source tree
sitting around. (I keep 2.0.x for reference, and usually two or three
2.[12].x's. I am also a compulsive user of `cp -lpR' to make a quick
copy of a tree so I can revert patches easily.) When I am either
making or applying a patch I would hate to have to make sure the
relevant tree was named "linux".
This also applies to other source trees. If you have a directory
called gimp-1.0.3, for example, and want to apply a patch for an input
filter someone made for gimp-1.0.2, "-p0" will bite you hard....
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 19 Jan 1999 02:28:59 -0800
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Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Christopher> On 18 Jan 1999 12:27:54 GMT, Richard Kulisz
Christopher> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you help run a stock exchange then you're establishing a
>> slave auction where whole corporations sell themselves into
>> bondage to distant investors. No, that is not communistic. It
>> doesn't help the community either.
Christopher> Should I interpret that as indicating that you
Christopher> consider free markets to be a bad thing?
Yes. And there is no such thing as a "free market" in the real world.
There are two types of government interference in the market. The
much-praised-by-conservatives type that typified the late 19th Century
United States, in which the government acted as the strong arm for
business; shooting and imprisoning labor activists, and using
legislation to promote business enterprises without regard to the
impact on the general society. In the United States, this position
directly descended from the Founding Fathers.
And then there is the much-condemned-by-conservatives type that
typified the so-called Progressive Era and the period roughly
1960-1975, in which the US government attempted to act as protector of
individuals and society as a whole instead of merely the 1%'ers.
There's no inbetween. Choose your side.
mp
8<---------------how-easy-is-it-to-demunge-an-address?------------------->8
#! /usr/bin/perl # if you are [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Another Luser):
while ($line = <>){ if ($line =~ m/^\s*$/ ){ last; }
if ($line =~ m/^From: (\S+) \(([^()]*)\)/){ $from_address = $1; } }
if ($from_address =~ m/\S+NOSPAM\S+/){ $x = index($from_address, NOSPAM);
substr($from_address, $x, 6+1) = ""; printf("The real address is %s\n",
$from_address);}else { printf("No munge, just plain %s\n",$from_address);}
printf("\nBrought to you by the Truth In Mail Headers Foundation\n");
8<-----------------------here's-one-example------------------------------>8
- --
Michael Powe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
Portland, Oregon USA
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:16:31 GMT
On 18 Jan 1999 12:27:54 GMT, Richard Kulisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Christopher B. Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>- And, by the same token, if I help run a stock exchange, thereby
>>establishing monetary values on a diverse grouping of capital assets, this
>>is likely to earn me a living, whilst accomplishing something that benefits
>>the community *far* more than it benefits me. You'd call *that*
>>communism?!?
>
>If you help run a stock exchange then you're establishing a slave auction
>where whole corporations sell themselves into bondage to distant investors.
>No, that is not communistic. It doesn't help the community either.
Should I interpret that as indicating that you consider free markets to
be a bad thing?
>>- Evidently, according to your criterion, the only way a President of the
>>United States can be truly successful is by implementing communism. A
>>successful President should cause there to be economic growth in the the US
>>that far, far exceeds the few hundreds of thousands of dollars that (s)he is
>>likely to earn in the job. Obviously a case of accomplishing something
>>that, in your words, "benefits the whole community far *far* more than it
>>benefits you."
>
>And since none of the US Presidents are responsible for economic growth
>then they can never be successful ...
If they help the government to stay out of the way, they can
occasionally be quite successful at improving peoples' economic outcomes
over situations where government action intrudes at great cost, but I
think we're starting to get a bit of a flavor of your attitudes...
>>- Closer to home, if Paul Martin Jr. is successful in his job as Minister of
>>Finance, this benefits Canadians hopefully to the tune of billions of
>>dollars in improved allocation of resources. One would hope that this
>
>How does it benefit Canadians to have improved allocation from the poor to
>the rich? I don't see how that benefits the community.
Again, this surely connects to some potently political attitudes; you're
making some assumptions that weren't warranted by what I said...
>>exceeds the cost of his compensation package. (Was there a private member's
>>bill raising ministerial salaries into the billions?) Is that communism?
>>(Is Carleton U still "Last Chance U?")
>
>Carleton is a world leader in Object-Oriented Programming. It actually
>teaches it to its students, or did until our bastard of a university
>President wanted to hand a freebie to his corporate buddies and switched
>classes from an object-oriented language to an imperative one. I'm very
>lucky I enrolled before the switchover.
Apparently I struck a nerve...
>>Ah. You must be one of the disciples of "objective value." Unfortunately,
>>there is reasonable evidence that there's no such thing, or at least, it's
>>not measurable. Things have different values to different individuals for
>>different reasons. Value is perceived by participants, and we don't
>>necessarily ever see the "objective actions of the system."
>
>You can replace objective with /rational/; the value something /would/
>have if humans possessed enough self-knowledge and rationality to do
>away with internal contradictions and inconsistencies. At which point
>you're left with something that's pretty damned objective.
You must have missed the sections of macro econ on evaluating the costs
and values of perfect information. It is not enough to know yourself;
you have to know what is going on in the world outside.
There are lots of cool mathematical models out there for representing
economic systems. They might be useful for predicting behaviour,
supposing it was possible to collect an infinite amount of data to plug
into the models.
Since that would involve infinite cost, people have to cope with
imperfect information that thereby is *not* objective.
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dr A O V Le Blanc)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: LILO and 10 GB drives
Date: 19 Jan 1999 09:05:50 -0000
Someone wrote:
>Disk /dev/hda: 16 heads, 63 sectors, 19540 cylinders
>Units = cylinders of 1008 * 512 bytes
>
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
>/dev/hda1 * 1 131 65992+ 6 DOS 16-bit >=32M
>/dev/hda2 * 132 262 66024 83 Linux native
>/dev/hda3 263 19540 9716112 5 Extended
>
>I have a bunch of logical partitions but those are irrelavent.
>/dev/hda2 is my root partition and it is below cylinder 1023.
"w��g" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>LINUX doesn't boot from the root partition, it boots from the /boot
>partition. You should have /dev/hda2 set to mount to /boot.
This is a bit confused. The boot loader boots the kernel, and the
kernel uses some partition as the root partition. The root partition
can be anywhere, but the kernel and the boot loader may not be
so free. Some boot loaders (e.g., LILO), require that the kernel is
physically located below the 1024 cylinder line. If this is the
case on your system, and if your root partition is at least partially
above the line, you may wish to mount as the directory /boot a
smaller partition from below the line, and to store your kernel
there. Alternatively, you may store your kernel on another partition
(such as a DOS partition) which is below the line.
The second question is this: where is the boot loader located?
The first stage of a boot loader may be located in the Master Boot
Record of a disk, or it may be located in the start of any partition
on the disk. The second stage of a boot loader (assuming it has
two stages) may be located anywhere. LILO has the restriction that
its first and second stages, as well as the map file which it constructs
when it is installed, must be below the 1024 cylinder line. Normally
the second stage of LILO (boot.b) and its map file are kept in the
/boot directory. So normally the partition /boot is on, whether it
is the root partition or something separately mounted, must be
below the 1024 cylinder line.
>Also, a time or two, I've seen problems with having
>multiple partitions set as active, which seems to be the case if that is a
>true FDISK screenshot. If you're going to use LILO, then you only need one
>partition active. With the way I have LILO configured, it is /dev/hda2.
There is no requirement to have any partitions active, and no restriction
on the number. If you use a Microsoft-style boot loader in the MBR,
it will select the partition to try to boot by looking for an active
flag, and if I am not mistaken, it will select the first such
partition that it finds. Note that other boot loaders in the MBR,
such as LILO or GRUB, ignore the active flag completely. Linux also
ignores the active flag, so if you have a completely Linux machine,
you may have as many or as few active flags as you wish. Some
operating systems, such as those produced by Microsoft, will only
boot if their 'root' partition is flagged as active. I look after
a number of machines (currently 75) with four or more operating
systems on them:
Windows 3.1
Windows 95 and/or 98
Windows NT
Linux
FreeBSD
Normally I prefer to have a separate partition for each operating
system. (In the case of the Microsoft systems, this means the
partition type of other Microsoft systems has to be hidden at boot
time.) The Microsoft systems also have the irritating feature
that their 'root' partition must be a primary partition. So
the boot loader has to fiddle with both partition types and
active flags. It is also possible (using some _very_ creative
fiddling) to have more than three or four potential primary partitions,
and to rewrite the partition table in such a way that it actualises
these before attempting to boot them:
partition 1 First potential primary partition, and possibly other
potential primary partitions.
partition 2 Currently actualised potential primary partition.
partition 3 remaining potential primary partitions.
partition 4 Extended partition including remainder of disk.
but I have not put such a system into production use yet, though
I did create one once in order to confirm that it works.
-- Owen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Subject: Re: 2.2.0pre7ac patches
Date: 18 Jan 1999 23:50:47 -0600
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[me]
> > One of my favorite pet peeves: people who recommend patching with
> > -p0 instead of -p1.
[N1ho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> Hmmm - guess you might want to take it up with Linus - it's been in
> the README for every kernel I've built in the development stream for
> the last 3-4 years.
Good point. Now I remember where it was that I was surprised to see
this advice. Maybe someday I'll send him the necessary patch to
README.
> Well, there you have it - read the README and you'll discover a nifty
> little feature of Linux (and UNIX in general) called a symbolic
> link.
Don't know if that was supposed to be sarcasm, but in any case I'm not
exactly oblivious to symbolic links. But this isn't about symbolic
links. If I didn't mind using `ln -s' I wouldn't mind using `mv' to
accomplish (in this case) much the same thing.
It's just much easier and less error-prone (for me) to cd to whichever
directory I really want and use `patch -p1', rather than `ls -l' to see
where the symlink is pointing, `ln -fs' if necessary, and `patch -p0'.
I'm not whining ... if you like `patch -p0' and you know what you're
doing, that's fine. I just think that `-p1' can prevent enough
headaches that I'd like to see people who aren't sure (i.e. the target
audience of README files) be told to use that until they know enough to
understand why or why not.
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Harrison)
Subject: Printer Problem
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:12:45 -0800
Is anyone aware of a printer driver that will enable a
Lexmark 3200 Jet printer work with Linux, and with
WordPerfect 8.0 ported for Linux??? Any suggestions
would be greatly appreciated.
*** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: disheartened gnome developer
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:44:47 -0800
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:21:14 GMT, Christopher B. Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:39:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Red Hat "dropped" some Python/Tk configuration tools, in favor of
>>> supporting Linuxconf; that happened with barely a whimper, as nobody
>>> really cared very much, or was terribly inconvenienced by the "loss."
>>> I have a hard time caring, myself. There are better things to expend
>>> emotional energy on.
>>
>>Sure. But that's not dropping, it's replacing.
>>We were discussing things like "Red Hat goes propietary". In that case,
>>you don't get linuxconf, you get the old Python/Tk tools and no maintainer.
>
>At which point people take the Linuxconf sources, which are available from
>the original producers that *aren't* at Red Hat, or, for that matter, from
>the same *country* as RHS, turn their backs on Red Hat Software, and
>continue from there.
>
>Linuxconf doesn't use the GPL, but rather a license that fits on a single
>page and strongly resembles the GPL...
Actually, if anything, the distributions are moving away
from highly specialized, specific value add ons. Redhat
is moving away from it's own old python applets and hacks
of fvwm2 and Caldera just plain dropped Looking Glass.
Mandrake is rather good proof that at least for the time
being, Redhat is nothing close to a microsoft.
--
Herding Humans ~ Herding Cats
Neither will do a thing unless they really want to, or |||
is coerced to the point where it will scratch your eyes out / | \
as soon as your grip slips.
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: Marc Slemko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SysV vs. BSD ps Re: - deprecated - why?
Date: 19 Jan 1999 08:46:12 GMT
In <77u4f8$1es$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Hannigan) writes:
>In article <77ljr0$5sm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marc Slemko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy J. Lee)
>writes:
>>
>>>On Solaris, use /usr/ucb/ps to get BSD ps behavior.
>>
>>...and the sad part is, that /usr/ucb/ps is the _only_ way to do certain
>>things on Solaris, ie. /usr/bin/ps can't do them.
>Can you be more precise? What exactly can't you get?
The most important for me is the 'w' flag, or 'ww', etc.
>>>AIX ps without the - takes BSD options; with the - takes SysV
>>>options. The man page on Linux ps seems to imply that Linux
>>>ps will take that approach in the future.
>>
>>That is such a stupid solution that I was completely dumbfounded the
>>first time I read that bit of the man page. Talk about confusing people
>>who have committed the sin of ever using any other Unix.
>Eh? It's a nice solution. We should be happy its possible.
If you want to give people a way to choose which type of ps they
want, then give them a way. There are lots of ways other than
breaking people's fingers and going out of your way to be confusing.
And the obvious religious advocacy of requiring people who want
a sane ps to set "I_WANT_A_BROKEN_PS" has no place. Broken is
a pretty strong word for one person's preference.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bernd Woltermann)
Subject: Re: 2.2.0-pre7 and APM - system clock loses time!
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:34:01 GMT
Hi,
In <BeHo2.2863$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Chris Rankin wrote:
> Hi,
> I just noticed this: normally, I can suspend the machine (using apm
> v2.4, and YES I am running the apmd daemon - for what it's worth) and
> xclock shows the correct time when I start the machine up again in the
> morining. Well, this is my first morning with 2.2.0 and the system clock
> was not correct. In fact it was about 5 hours slow and apmd claimed that
> it had been asleep for slightly over an hour. I had to do a "hwclock
> --hctosys" to resync the system clock with the CMOS.
>
> The only think that's changed is the kernel (and its APM driver).
>
> Cheers,
> Chris.
>
I've got the same problem with 2.0.36.
Bernd
--
=====================================================================
Bernd Woltermann, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm,
Institute of Information Technology
Address: Wilhelm-Runge-Str.11, P.O. Box 23 60, 89013 Ulm, Germany
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====================================================================
------------------------------
From: Joerg Schueler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: introduction on device driver programming
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:21:04 +0100
Hi folks,
does anybody know a good web page or paper on device driver programming
? I just need an introduction on the basics in that.
Thanks
Joerg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Kahlert)
Subject: Re: What does this traceroute output mean?
Date: 19 Jan 1999 11:29:13 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
James Youngman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> See if you can spot the problem (from either end) using tcpdump. IMHO
> running tcpdump on the Alpha end is more likely to be illuminating.
What tcpdump-options would be useful to check?
>> Some more data:
>> On pentium:
>> eth0 Link encap:10Mbps Ethernet HWaddr 00:00:E8:58:33:3A
>> inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
>> UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
>> RX packets:4853 errors:1 dropped:0 overruns:0
>> TX packets:4897 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0
>> Interrupt:10 Base address:0xf200
>> This seems correct to me - doesn't it?
>> The Pentium card is a 4Lan PCI (Realtek 8139 driver)
>> The system is Linux 2.0.35
>>
>> On Alpha i have a DEC onboard net (Samsung UX2 board)
>> and Linux 2.0.36
>
> And what does ifconfig say on the Alpha?
Quite the same, but i check it out in the evening.
> Do you have a headware problem (e.g. 10baseT with cards configured for
> duplex but only a non-duplex hub)?
I have a twisted cable and no hub (only 2 machines).
The card is configured for duplex. Is this o.k.?
Thanks for your answer,
Martin.
--
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
------------------------------
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