Linux-Development-Sys Digest #353, Volume #6 Sun, 31 Jan 99 02:14:35 EST
Contents:
2.2.1 - kernel: Negative d_count (-1) (Greg)
Re: How to run Windows Applications on Linux (Steven Shaw)
Kernel 2.2 Changes file - needed (Wilmarcd)
-fno-strength-reduce? (was: Re: glibc-performance) (Martin Dickopp)
Re: linux on an overclocked PII (Jan Andres)
Saving Machine State (Bill Reh)
Re: password validation (Nicholas Todd Lawrence)
Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows (Nick Papadonis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2.2.1 - kernel: Negative d_count (-1)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 16:27:10 GMT
Hello all,
I've been running a 2.2 kernel since pre-8 came out. I'm running
on a RedHat 5.2 system with an updated sysklogd to handle the
/boot/System.map issues. Everything seems to work decently, except that I
have had a bunch of unexplainable crashes since moving to 2.2. I've been
examining the stack traces in /var/log/messages and I'm wondering if
anyone else qould care to interpret them.
The main message that I am receiveing is;
kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for
Sometimes, this is for a /home/ directory, others for /dev. It
doesn't seem to be application specific, cause the following applications
have generated it;
Process krootwm (pid: 458, process nr: 44, stackpage=c266f000)
Process xconsole (pid: 465, process nr: 51, stackpage=c3305000)
Process kbgndwm (pid: 457, process nr: 43, stackpage=c263d000)
Process bash (pid: 593, process nr: 48, stackpage=c3267000)
Process kfm (pid: 455, process nr: 41, stackpage=c23a5000)
Process kscd (pid: 463, process nr: 49, stackpage=c3219000)
Process .Xclients (pid: 436, process nr: 29, stackpage=c1117000)
Process ssh (pid: 600, process nr: 52, stackpage=c1d55000)
Here are the relevant entries in /var/log/messsages...
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c0f79b40 ebp: 00000021
esp: c266ff84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process krootwm (pid: 458, process nr: 44,
stackpage=c266f000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c201eb80 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c266e000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 404d96b0 00000001 bffff020 400559c0
c266e000 c0114dc6 00000100 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000001 40419558 404d96cc 404d96b0
00000001 bffff020 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c3265380 ebp: 00000021
esp: c3305f84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process xconsole (pid: 465, process nr: 51,
stackpage=c3305000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c201ee80 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c3304000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 402066b0 00000001 bfffef00 00000000
c3304000 c0114dc6 00000100 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000001 0804bbd0 402066cc 402066b0
00000001 bfffef00 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c0f79a20 ebp: 00000021
esp: c263df84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process kbgndwm (pid: 457, process nr: 43,
stackpage=c263d000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c201eb00 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c263c000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 404ea6b0 00000001 bffff098 4002788e
c263c000 c0114dc6 00000100 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000001 4042a558 404ea6cc 404ea6b0
00000001 bffff098 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c3265020 ebp: 00000021
esp: c3267ee4
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process bash (pid: 593, process nr: 48,
stackpage=c3267000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c3425720 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 00000001
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: c3266000 00000001 c3267fc4 00000000
c3266000 c0107963 00000001 c3266000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000000 080b08e0 bffff90c c3266000
c32663b4 c3267f40 c32663b4 00000001
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0107963>]
[<c01189bb>] [<c01189a4>] [<c0106ecc>] [<c0107a88>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c0f797e0 ebp: 00000021
esp: c23a5f84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process kfm (pid: 455, process nr: 41,
stackpage=c23a5000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c3e0f500 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c23a4000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 405706b0 00000001 bffff018 4004f4f0
c23a4000 c0114dc6 00000100 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000001 404b0558 405706cc 405706b0
00000001 bffff018 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c3265140 ebp: 00000021
esp: c3219f84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process kscd (pid: 463, process nr: 49,
stackpage=c3219000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c201ed40 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c3218000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 404d96b0 00000001 bffff2ac 00000000
c3218000 c0114dc6 00000100 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 00000001 40419558 404d96cc 404d96b0
00000001 bffff2ac 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c0cccea0 ebp: 00000021
esp: c1117f84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process .Xclients (pid: 436, process nr: 29,
stackpage=c1117000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c0cddaa0 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c1116000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 400aa6b0 0000008b bffffc00 00000000
c1116000 c0114dc6 00008b00 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 0000008b 0809e640 400aa6cc 400aa6b0
0000008b bffffc00 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Negative d_count (-1) for home/damin
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at virtual address 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 00101000, pr3 = 00101000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: *pde = 00000000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Oops: 0002
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: CPU: 0
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EIP: 0010:[<c012ce62>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: EFLAGS: 00010286
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: eax: 00000028 ebx: c21985c0 ecx: 00000202
edx: c03c2000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: esi: ffffffff edi: c32654a0 ebp: 00000021
esp: c1d55f84
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Process ssh (pid: 600, process nr: 52,
stackpage=c1d55000)
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Stack: c0cfb6e0 c2198620 c3d5a3a0 00000001
c0114d0c c21985c0 c000e060 c1d54000
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 400f66b0 000000ff bffff18c 00000000
c1d54000 c0114dc6 0000ff00 c0107a40
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: 000000ff 08076018 400f66cc 400f66b0
000000ff bffff18c 00000001 0000002b
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Call Trace: [<c0114d0c>] [<c0114dc6>]
[<c0107a40>]
messages:Jan 30 10:03:19 tori kernel: Code: c7 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 83 c4 10 5b
5e c3 89 f6 53 8b
------------------------------
From: Steven Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How to run Windows Applications on Linux
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:06:59 +1000
Does Starcraft really run under Linux? Are you using wine?
Steve.
Huge Starcraft fan.
Bill Anderson wrote:
> "D. Stimtis" wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ...
> > > Santa's making a list. If You could have any piece of software ported
> > > to Linux, other than Microsoft's what would it be?
> > >
> >
> > Corel Draw 8, FreeSpace, and StarCraft (guess which are for work and which for
>play?).
> >
>
> Starcraft <1.04 runs well. Ran faster than under Windows on the same
> machine.
> 1.04 (Brood Wars+) apparently sound works, but no screen output. It is
> being worked on.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wilmarcd)
Subject: Kernel 2.2 Changes file - needed
Date: 29 Jan 1999 00:11:42 GMT
Could someone out there send me the Changes text file from the
2.2 kernel? I'd like to have a look at any things I may need.
At 13MB and not having a real 'net connection at the moment I'm not going to
download the source just yet but would like to get a heads up on requirements,
etc.
Thanks,
---
Marc D. Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Platform/8269/ -- Windows 3.x Makeover
http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Dickopp)
Subject: -fno-strength-reduce? (was: Re: glibc-performance)
Date: 30 Jan 1999 22:23:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Juergen Heinzl) wrote:
> For gcc-2.8.1, I cannot tell, to buggy and I used egcs-1.1.1 to
> compile the libraries with ...
> -Os -fomit-frame-pointer -march=i686 -mcpu=i686 -malign-loops=2 \
> -malign-jumps=2 -malign-functions=2 -fno-strength-reduce
> ...
Out of curiosity, what's the benefit of the `-fno-strength-reduce'
flag here?
Cheers,
Martin
--
_ _ Martin Dickopp
/|\ /|\ Dresden, Germany
-' | `---' | `- eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===+=~~~~~=+=== WWW: http://hep.phy.tu-dresden.de/~dickopp/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jan Andres)
Subject: Re: linux on an overclocked PII
Date: 30 Jan 1999 20:58:47 +0100
Frank Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I overclocked my PII 266 to 300 and upped the bus speed to 75 mhz. Now
> when I boot Linux turns off DMA on my hard drives. Is this bad? What
> does DMA do anyway?
>
> By the way I am on 2.2.0-final (aka 2.2.0-pre9)
>
> Jan 25 20:12:06 FranksPC kernel: hdb: timeout waiting for DMA
> Jan 25 20:12:06 FranksPC kernel: hdb: irq timeout: status=0x58 {
> DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
> Jan 25 20:12:06 FranksPC kernel: hda: DMA disabled
> Jan 25 20:12:06 FranksPC kernel: hdb: DMA disabled
> Jan 25 20:12:06 FranksPC kernel: ide0: reset: success
Overclocking makes your system very unstable. Windows users often
don't notice this, as they are used to instability, but under Linux,
you do.
As you can see here, the CPU cannot handle the bus correctly any
more. I suppose the DMA requests are eaten up somewhere in the bus
interface. I suggest that you undo the overclocking. The performance
win that you get from 266->300 MHz is not very big, but the
reliability loss *is* big. It's better to have a system that is a bit
slower, but that works without problems.
--
Jan Andres
Email (rot13ed to avoid spam): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ham radio: DH2JAN
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Reh)
Subject: Saving Machine State
Date: 31 Jan 1999 05:19:13 GMT
Hi,
I would like to know if there's any way to save my machine state, ie save my
kcore and swap file and restore them after rebooting, or something to that
effect.
You see, I was running lynx and I downloaded and installed a newer version of
lynx, thus writing over the old binary. It's been running in memory now for
almost three weeks (congradulations by the way to all of those who've worked on
the kernel -- great job). Anyway, I'd like to fiddle with my kernel, and that
requires rebooting the machine, but I want to see how long I can keep lynx
running.
So if anyone can let me know if it's possible to save the lynx that's running
in memory and restore it after rebooting, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill
------------------------------
From: Nicholas Todd Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: password validation
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:42:57 -0600
Unfortunatly, I am not the administrator of the machine I am working on
and cannot change the uid of my program to root.
Would the following idea work?
In my program, I fork off another process which invokes the login (or
rlogin) command. Using a pipe, could I then feed it the login id and
password, pipe the output back to the parent process, check the results
for "Login incorrect" and then use that to validate the password.
Is this a workable idea or does it have some hidden problems of its own?
Thanks
On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, David D. Gitchell wrote:
> Nicholas,
>
> Look at "man 3 shadow" for the utilities dealing with the shadow
> password file. Note that your cgi-bin executable will have to be setuid
> root to use those utilities -- you must be VERY careful.
> -- Dave
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> #include <std_disclaimer.h> /* I speak for myself, only. */|
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> LCDR David D. Gitchell, USN (Retired), Hutchinson, KS, USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Why I'm dumping Linux, going back to Windblows
From: Nick Papadonis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 31 Jan 1999 01:45:49 -0500
Completely agree. It seems that in the UNIX world
people try to force away non-technical newbies. A lack
of examples is further proof of this.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> weak arguments.
>
> you are basically saying, if I can't show every possible example of how
> a command can be used, then I am not going to show any.
>
> I am saying, showing few examples is better than nothing.
>
> if you need examples of what I am talking about, find a VMS system
> and type 'help' and see what I mean.
>
> On VMS, each command has examples included. some have one or two
> examples, some have more. These examples speed the learning process
> and leaves one feeling better about the system helping them to use
> its commands.
>
> >New functions are added as the need arises and they are added into the
> >list of options. Should the fact that you don't happen to need one
> >of those options today mean that it shouldn't be given equal space
> >in the manual?
> >
>
> same bougus argument.
> as I said, one or two lines is all it takes to show some examples
> and explain them. how much time does it take for the programmer
> to do that? 5 minutes per example? or instead have the user
> spend 2 hours reading the man page trying to figure which option
> they should use to do some common task?
>
> >>may I am wrong on this, but I would really be interested in hearing from
> >>others who wrote man pages, why did they not put some effort in putting
> >>examples.
> >
>
> >I have always thought that every complex product should have two
> >completely separate manuals.
>
> fine. but untill someone does this, we are talking about what we have today.
>
> man pages are easy to get to, and quick to read. and people are used
> to them. no need to redesign the world. simply add few examples at the end.
>
> Certainly a programmer who just finished a program could come up with
> few examples of how to use their program.
>
> it is such a trivial thing for the expert on the program to add after they
> finished, and takes little time, and would have greate value to new users,
> why is this resistence for the Unix programmer is something I stil do not
> get.
>
> kna
>
--
Nick Papadonis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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