Linux-Development-Sys Digest #565, Volume #6 Fri, 2 Apr 99 03:15:18 EST
Contents:
Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform" (Jeremy Crabtree)
Re: How about /dev/web? ("Michael T. Babcock")
Re: how are contributions to the linux development coordinated ("G. Sumner Hayes")
Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC. (Klaus Schilling)
Re: polling an interface at 12 KHz (Gerard van der Sel)
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0 (Enkidu)
Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform" ("Jim Ross")
Re: compiling problem (Chris Mahmood)
sleep_on / wake_up problem, full-duplex, SoundBlaster 16 ("Regis")
Re: 4 Gb memory? ECC? (Mikko Hyvarinen)
Re: COM/CORBA equivalent (Le physicien nocturne)
Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC. (Lee)
Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC. (Michael Powe)
Re: clone() or PThreads ??? (Thomas Rink)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform"
Date: 2 Apr 1999 02:07:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kendall Bennett allegedly wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Since the announcement of MetroWerks CodeWarrior for the "Red Hat Linux"
>platform, a couple of threads have brought up the subject of difference
>between Linux distributions. As a developer of commercial products for
>the Linux platform, we are all too familiar with the subtle differences
>between Linux distributions that cause headaches for vendors wishing to
>develop and *support* products for the Linux platform. Hence
>software vendors end up developing for and supporting their products on
>the most popular Linux distribution, which is currently Red Hat.
huh? Unless you do something that is obscenely distribution-specific,
it doesn't matter.
>I know there is already the Linux LSB project underway to hopefully solve
>some of these problems.
Then why start yet another project?
>However I think we need something more
>definitative than this. What we need to do is put together something
>similar to the the Microsoft PC '99 guidelines, but for Linux
>distributions. I am proposing that we start a new project to define the
>'Linux 2000 Platform'.
1) PC '99 is evil, 2) Who gets to decide what is 'standard'?
>Since there will be differences between the different uses for Linux, we
>should define multiple variations of the Linux 2000 platform. The
>contents of what make up the variations Linux 2000 platform should be
>debated and eventually voted on to come up with the final guidelines.
>Some people may not agree with the final vote, but the important thing is
>that compromises need to be made for this to be successful. We may also
>want to define what are 'base components' that must be installed on every
>system, and components that are optional and may or may not be installed
>by the user.
Well...other than the bare minimum, just about everything should be optional.
>The important thing here is that then software vendors can say that they
>support the 'Linux 2000 Platform' as opposed to a particular Linux
>distribution. People writing books about Linux can target the 'Linux 2000
>Platform' as well, so people wanting to learn about Linux can simply get
>any distribution that is Linux 2000 compliant. As long as the
>distribution guidelines are set in and the distribution vendors correctly
>follow the guidelines, the Linux world will be a better place.
Sounds like a marketing tool.
>Perhaps we need a new mailing list dedicated to defining and regulating
>these issues?
You would also need the participation and support of several MAJOR
players in the Linux community.
>The following are my first two (very bare) suggestions to begin with:
>
>Linux 2000 Workstation
>----------------------
>
>Base components:
> . Standard locations for all configuration files!
Such as? For the most part they live in /etc .
> . Glibc based
> . RPM for package manager
I suggest dpkg instead, it's a bit more, shall we say, 'advanced'.
(I use Slackware, and I don't use ANY package managers ;)
> . GNU make, C/C++ compiler and development libraries
Well, DUH! ;)
> . XFree86 installed to /usr/X11R6/lib (or /usr/X11)
Or both, thanks to the wonders of sym-links.
>Optional components:
> . Web browser (Netscape or Mozilla variation?)
> . Need more suggestions here!
>
>Linux 2000 Server
>-----------------
>
>Base components:
> . Standard locations for all configuration files!
See above.
> . Glibc based
> . RPM for package manager
See above.
> . GNU make, C/C++ compiler and development libraries
Again DUH! ;)
> . XFree86 installed to /usr/X11R6/lib (or /usr/X11)
See above.
> . Ftp, telnet servers
> . Apache web server
Naturally.
> . Web browser (Netscape or Mozilla variation?)
On a server, this goes in the optional category.
>Optional components:
> . Need more suggestions here!
Summary: It sounds like you want
RedHat == Linux 2000
--
"Being myself a remarkably stupid fellow, I have had to unteach myself
the difficulties, and now beg to present to my fellow fools the parts
that are not hard" --Silvanus P. Thompson, from "Calculus Made Easy."
------------------------------
From: "Michael T. Babcock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.emacs,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: How about /dev/web?
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:26:16 +0000
Alexander Viro wrote:
> >Note that the "mount" pushes *absolutely nothing* of this process into
> >the kernel, since mount is a user-space program, not a kernel-space
> >program. That's the insight that Ryan seems not to have seen, and it's
> >not something that is *blindingly* obvious when you consider that
> >"mount" is one of those programs that sits at the edge between
> >kernel-mode and user-mode.
> Yes. But cd isn't. Moreover, if you are into the HTTP stuff
> you don't have a persistent connection and every request may take
> separate validation. Mount on each and every page?
I think you know full well that the original poster was simply tossing an idea
out to be muddled around in everyone's minds. You also know that Christopher was
just clarifying ... not making actual proposals on how to do things. Seeing as
you're not cluing in well ...
Whether CD is or is not user-space is almost irrelevant. Have you ever used
Midnight Commander? I'm not a big fan (too bulky), but it uses a good concept
that I would like to have you think about ...
... why not implement hierarchial Internet protocols as mountable filesystems
handled by a daemon process? A background daemon could be loaded that would
(using FTP as the example here) read /etc/ftpmount.conf and then ~/.ftpmountconf
and get username/password/other parameters and log into the site in question ...
mount -tFTP ftp.mit.edu /mnt/mit-ftp/
... username and password are checked for in /etc/ftpmount.conf and found to not
exist, so the default anonymous and guest@(localhost) are used and the root of
the ftp site is mounted at /mnt/mit-ftp/
Changing directories to /mnt/mit-ftp and doing an ls would then cause the daemon
to do a listing and pass it back to the user. This isn't difficult to implement
in the long run ... very little kernel coding needs doing, and in fact, this
could make accessing remote filesystems securely easier by using secure HTTP or
SSH to transfer the files. Any permissions the remote protocol supports (FTP
sites often specify user/group/other rwx ... web sites often don't allow the
reading of these) could be relayed back to the user. Caching could be
implemented as usual (with a local copy of squid / etc.) and timeouts placed on
the mounts. If the mount point wasn't accessed after a certain period, the
connection by the daemon would be closed. It would be reopened if the user tried
to use something under the mount point ... (think of a hard drive spinning up and
down ... )
Now, are you going to keep arguing against this because you don't get it, because
you didn't like it initially and now have something to prove, or are you going to
start working toward a potentially useful feature?
--
_____/~-=##=-~\_____
-=+0+=-< Michael T. Babcock >-=+0+=-
~~~~~\_-=##=-_/~~~~~
http://www.linuxsupportline.com/~pgp/ ICQ: 4835018
------------------------------
From: "G. Sumner Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how are contributions to the linux development coordinated
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:24:22 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I find the idea behind linux' success is very appealing: everyone
> who'd like to contribute to the development of linux can. But thinking
> of that, I ask myself: how is this coordinated. Say, for example, I'd
> like to change a line in a kernel's source file, because I think this
> would be more efficient. How would I do that? Do I have to register
> with some organisation, or with Linus?
Just change it. Then test the change. Then post the change to
the linux-kernel mailing list (and possibly this newsgroup), requesting
more testers. If you get some people to test it and it seems good,
e-mail the change to the maintainer of that bit of code -- read the
MAINTAINERS file to help find the maintainer, and if you can't figure
out who owns the code then include a query in your e-mail to
linux-kernel.
If you're distributing a patch, include [PATCH] in the Subject: line
of your mail. Obviously, you should include a short explanation of
what the patch does -- feature, optimization, bug-fix -- and how it
works to accomplish that -- move a test out of a fast path, correct an
off-by-one error, whatever.
> Or, for another one, if I decided
> to write a module or something, how would I be sure nobody else
> is working on the same thing at the same time. If I knew that, I
> should actually get in touch with him/her and do the development
> together.
When you start to develop a new feature, post a message to linux-kernel
saying that you're doing so. Someone else will e-mail 5 minutes later
with a patch they've been working on for the last 6 months that does
what you want, but isn't well-tested yet. Help them test it and fix
the bugs.
In the unlikely event that nobody's working on the problem, plunge
ahead and post code early and often (once it's in a working state).
If a patch is large, put it on a web site or ftp site somewhere and
post a pointer to it; remember to post announcements of the new
version every time they're warranted.
> Is there some faq on these issues or something to clarify this?
Nope. You ought to subscribe to the linux-kernel mailing list, though;
you'll see the process in action and figure it out quickly.
--Sumner
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC.
From: Klaus Schilling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 02 Apr 1999 00:35:41 +0200
"Bill Zimmerly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Can you name one that was as good an implementation of all 3?
> > Did it cost around $50 USD?"
>
> As a matter of fact, I can...
>
> Forth
>
> Far more powerful an integrated environment than Turbo Pascal. The prices
> *WERE* and are free and most good implementations are open source, just like
> Linux. (Beats the hell out of $50 USD.)
>
> > I thought not...
>
> Then you had better do yourself a favor and quit trying to think for other
> people, you're obviously not too good at that.
Nothing can beat the GNU Emacs, the self-contained Emacs Lisp IDE
Klaus Schilling
------------------------------
From: Gerard van der Sel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: polling an interface at 12 KHz
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:17:56 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Daniel Derksen wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have to devellop an application which polls a hardware-interface at 12
> KHz and I was thinking about develloping this application on Linux. I'm
> not really into Linux yet so before I get into it, could someone give me an
> indication on whether I have a chance of achieving this ?
>
> thanks in advance!
>
> kind regards,
>
> Daniel.
If you 'poll' on interrupt basis I have a 'driver' example at 8192 Hz in
userspace. It is based on the /dev/rtc device.
The next step (16384 Hz) is available if your rtc chip is correct.
You better make a module (driver) on interrupt base.
--
Met vriendelijke groet,
Gerard van der Sel
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"De dinosaurussen hadden hun komeet, wij hebben de Windows computer" -
me
"The box said: 'install on Windows 95, NT 4.0 or better'.
So I installed it on Linux."
------------------------------
From: Enkidu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:43:53 +1200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wizard wrote:
>
> On top of adding value the strengthen the Linux code base by
> setting things like RPM free.
>
RPM is a good package manger, but it is *not* essential. I've been
running Linux for years without it.
>
> The other key item that everyone overlooks is the large amount
> of effort the people at RedHat, Suse and others put into driver
> development. If that does add value I don't know what does.
>
This is a fiction. Redhat do *not* develop drivers.
>
> The simple fact is that the RedHat Cd gets a lot of people
> involved in Linux that might not otherwise. This is truely a
> good thing.
>
It's a mixed blessing. Count the number of times there are questions
on this group from someone who has bought or downloaded Redhat, and
doesn't know how to partition a disk. Or even that they can't run
Linux under Windows! A recent question posted was "Where's the
setup.exe for Linux".
However if these people *can* learn, then they become an asset to
the Linux community, and to the non-Microsoft world.
Redhat does put *barriers* to understanding, by making things look
more GUI, and hiding the nuts and bolts. Again this is both good
and bad.
Cliff
------------------------------
From: "Jim Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform"
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:57:33 -0500
Christopher B. Browne wrote in message ...
>On 1 Apr 1999 21:34:22 -0500, Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>posted:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>I suggest dpkg instead, it's a bit more, shall we say, 'advanced'.
>>
>>Seconded, with possible ports integration.
>
>Unfortunately, the flaming of Red Hat by those of the Slackware
>Religion acts as an anodyne, distracting people from the possibility
>that there might be ideas out there that are better than either
>system's approach.
>
>The fixation on RPM, with occasional vague mention of dpkg, betrays a
>generally vast ignorance of the various packaging methods that in use.
>Almost certainly Ports and the Debian tools represent something closer
>to the "state of the art" than does RPM.
>
>Anyone for stow? Depot? NSBD?
>
>Note that RPM would be a whole lot more usable if there was something
>functionally equivalent to Debian's APT and dselect tools...
I think people understand that RPM has problems.
They just believe it is better for some people than source packages.
Source is ok, but not for everyone.
Jim
>
>>>(I use Slackware, and I don't use ANY package managers ;)
>>
>>>> . GNU make, C/C++ compiler and development libraries
>>
>>>Well, DUH! ;)
>
>I disagree, slightly. POSIX make is a more unambiguously requirable
>option.
>
>>>> . XFree86 installed to /usr/X11R6/lib (or /usr/X11)
>>
>>Optional. Install libs if you are so inclined, but server and
>>applications do not belong to required part.
>>
>>>Or both, thanks to the wonders of sym-links.
>>
>> Exactly.
>
>Absolutely.
>
>>>>Optional components:
>>>> . Web browser (Netscape or Mozilla variation?)
>>
>>Or lynx, or any other browser. What's the difference for 3-rd party
>>applications?
>
>If trying to establish a standard, shouldn't the product picked be
>require to conform to some standards? :-).
>
>--
>Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: Chris Mahmood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: compiling problem
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:24:07 -0800
what version of ssh? did you give any options to the configure
script?
did you check the mailing-list archive?
-ckm
------------------------------
From: "Regis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: sleep_on / wake_up problem, full-duplex, SoundBlaster 16
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:44:39 +0200
I would be happy to have a solution about a little sleep_on/wake_up problem
I have.
First,let me explain what lead to the problem:
I recently change a SoundBlaster PRO for a SoundBlaster 16 and i have decide
to build my own driver as a loadable module (Voxware sound driver work !).
In my driver ,I have implemented a full-duplex capability as it is possible
with a SB 16, by using of the two DMA channels (8bits and 16bits) at the
same
time. I use 16bits DMA for recording and 8 bits DMA for playing, both DMAs
share the same IRQ but a soundcard status port give the info on which
DMA (or sample size) it's occuring. Status gives 0x81 for 8bits, 0x82 for
16bits (and 0x83 for both but this should be avoid, maybe).
Basicaly, the driver work like this. At init, two DMA buffers are allocated,
one for each DMA channel, interrupt is registered without SA_INTERRUPT.
When writting, the write function try to fill as much as it can the DMA
buffer ,if the buffer is full the proccess go to sleep through a call
to 'interruptible_sleep_on' and is wake up by the interrupt routine when
there is available space.
When reading, the read function try to read as much as it can from the DMA
buffer ,if the buffer is empty the proccess go to sleep through a call
to 'interruptible_sleep_on' and is wake up by the interrupt routine when
there is data available.
To demonstrate myself the full-duplex, I have built a little program which
does this :
1) set read to 16bits 44100 Hz stereo
2) set write to 8bits 44100 Hz stereo
3) in a loop send data read from soundcard to the soundcard (after signed
word to unsigned char convertion)
This produce an echo effect, and it works.
Here is the problem, it happen that the program never wake up.
That arise when apparently interrupt for 8bits and 16bits are merge.
When buffers are synchronise, it has never happens.
By synchronise, I mean that the 8bits buffer length represent the same
sampling time as the 16bits buffer length, as long as the two DMA doesn't
start at the same time all work fine even with 8bits buffer length of 128
bytes, which is an interrupt rate generation of 689 Hz (8bits stereo 44100
Hz).
If both buffers represent different timings, after a while the program stop
'echoing' but don't hang the system.
The Question:
Does anybody knowns about how to fix me, or can give me a guideline to
follow
for a full-duplex operations ?
Note:
I used linux 2.0.0 (Slackware 3.1) on an IBM PS/VP 486DX2 66 Mhz with 20
Mb.
The driver is for my personnal use.
" As of version 2.0.0, linux still don't recognize my 2 harddisks (Maxtor)
without specifying the geometries, even with brand new E-ide driver.
OpenBSD does recognize them without help !
And I don't tell you about Mitsumi CD driver "mcdx" which, when doing
a simple 'find /cdrom -name *.lsm -print > lsm.all ' command, slowdown
the
system in a way that I must wait a bunch of seconds between each char I
type
or when I switch to another virtual console ..."
------------------------------
From: Mikko Hyvarinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 4 Gb memory? ECC?
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:04:11 GMT
Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Jakob" == Jakob Sigurdsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > My employer is considering buying a Linux Box with 4 Gb memory, we
> > are thinking of a Quad pentuim (Xeon) setup.
> > What is the max memory in linux?
>
> More than 2GB on a x86 is impractical. You can probably support upto 3GB on
> Linux but that reduces the max process size to 1GB. For 4GB,
> you want to look into Alpha or Sparc64.
>
> Stefan
What is the maximum physical memory size supported by Linux on an Alpha
machine? I have seen patches for 2GB on Alpha, is this the current
limit? If so, why?
Now that I'm at it, how's the ECC support for Linux doing? (on x86 and
Alpha)
--
Mikko Hyv�rinen, morphy@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Legalese: My opinions are mine and I speak only for myself.
------------------------------
From: Le physicien nocturne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: COM/CORBA equivalent
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 03:11:10 -0500
Sunil R. Karkera wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm new to Linux. I'm a Windows API developer in VC++. I recently installed
> Red Hat Linux 5.2. I would like to start developing a freeware Help-desk
> system, for use by any organization, from commercial to voluntary.
> I would like to know if Linux has something like COM/CORBA infrastructure
> euivalent. I want to wake the program componentized.
> Please suggest me some good freeware C++ development tools, GUI tools for
> Linux, that supports COM/DCOM like framework.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Sunil
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
These sites should give you a good start:
http://linas.org/linux/corba.html
DCOM/ActiveX for linux
http://www.softwareag.com/corporat/solutions/entirex/entirex.htm
Good luck!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC.
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:03:57 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Wesley W. Garland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Out of curiosity, why do you hate debuggers so much? They save
>*so* much time when writing code with any sort of complexity
>whatsoever...
The best programmer I ever knew once said to me, in all seriousness,
"Debugging is a complete waste of time. Just write it correctly to start
with."
Easy for him to say.
Lee
------------------------------
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC.
Date: 01 Apr 1999 23:49:04 -0800
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Stephan" == Stephan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Stephan> BTW, does someone else have these strange experience?
Stephan> Sometimes I am looking for hours or days for a bug,
Stephan> without any apparent progress. Then, when doing something
Stephan> completly unrelated (usually sports), it goes BANG and I
Stephan> do not even need to check the code to know what was wrong
Stephan> and how to fix it.
Yes, this is very common in any endeavor. It's always good advice to
`take a break' when you're really stuck. I know I've often had the
experience of leaving off a project and going to bed; and then waking
up in the morning & thinking, `Oh, yeah, that's what I need to do!'
mp
- --
Michael Powe Portland, Oregon USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
"Three hours a day will produce as much as a man ought to write."
-- Anthony Trollope
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------------------------------
From: Thomas Rink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: clone() or PThreads ???
Date: 01 Apr 1999 10:20:18 +0200
"G. Sumner Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1. You cannot current lock shared memory into RAM on Linux. This
> basically kills shm for real-time applications -- if the shm is
> swapped out, your "real-time" process will have to wait for it to
> be swapped back in from disk. Bad mojo.
Really? This is from `man shmctl' (Kernel 2.0.36):
In addition, the super-user can prevent or allow swapping
of a shared memory segment with the following cmds: (Linux
only)
SHM_LOCK prevents swapping of a shared memory segment.
The user must fault in any pages that are
required to be present after locking is
enabled.
SHM_UNLOCK allows the shared memory segment to be swapped
out.
Or isn't this implemented yet?
-- Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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