Linux-Development-Sys Digest #576, Volume #6 Sat, 3 Apr 99 16:14:23 EST
Contents:
Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform" (David T. Blake)
Mozilla? (Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform") (Christopher B. Browne)
buffer space consumption (was: How about /dev/web?) (Fergus Henderson)
Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC. (Dan Mercer)
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0 (John Thompson)
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0 (James Goldman)
Re: arp problem when setting NOARP? (Andi Kleen)
Give it a rest! (was Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0)
(John Thompson)
Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform" (Adam P. Jenkins)
Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC. (Craig Kelley)
Re: can we do float point calculation in kernel module? (Peter Samuelson)
Linux Kernel Manpages? (Olav Woelfelschneider)
Compiled 2.2.5 Now, no mouse. (Jonathan Adams)
Re: Give it a rest! (was Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0)
(Matthias Warkus)
CORBA using kernel recources... (Conrado Buhrer)
Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0 (Jeremy Crabtree)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Blake)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform"
Date: 03 Apr 1999 07:14:20 -0800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree) writes:
>>Note that RPM would be a whole lot more usable if there was something
>>functionally equivalent to Debian's APT and dselect tools...
>
>Or even pkgtool's character-mode interface.
>
>(Glint is okay, but the CLI RPM stinks)
>
>(WHOA!...pkgtool is a...sh SCRIPT!?...cool...)
Glint is pretty bare minimal. GnoRPM is much better.
But I still like the power of the command line, because
I can use the shell as well.
But none of these offer REAL package tool functionality.
A REAL package tool would do what we end up doing when the
package tool screws up - use ldd and nm to figure out if the
right library versions are installed. It would be slower, but
when it failed you could be told exactly which symbol was
missing and where it was supposed to be found. That would
be a useful package manager.
RPM will only look in one place for a library it is
supposed to find - the RPM database. Nevermind that I
compiled it by hand instead of downloading the package.
Even then, it can find the right file name (let's say
/lib/libc.so.6) and not bother to check the glibc
version, which is a SURE killer.
>>>>>>Optional components:
>>>>> . Web browser (Netscape or Mozilla variation?)
>>>
>>>Or lynx, or any other browser. What's the difference for 3-rd party
>>>applications?
>>
>>If trying to establish a standard, shouldn't the product picked be
>>require to conform to some standards? :-).
>
>So...Arena is the one, then? ;)
>Or, am I confused?
Arena doesn't offer bare functionality. I'd vote Mozilla in
but not netscape. That would definitely speed its
development up a bit. Lynx IS the GNU text browser, and
all versions of linux use the GNU tools.
--
Dave Blake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Mozilla? (Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform")
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:42:41 GMT
On 03 Apr 1999 07:14:20 -0800, David T. Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
posted:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree) writes:
>Arena doesn't offer bare functionality. I'd vote Mozilla in
>but not netscape. That would definitely speed its
>development up a bit. Lynx IS the GNU text browser, and
>all versions of linux use the GNU tools.
Note that jwz resigned from AOL this week... See:
<http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html>
This doesn't read like an April Fool's prank, and I would certainly
say that if he's gone, and for the reasons he cites, that Mozilla
development is in *real* serious trouble.
It's been a year, and there hasn't been a Mozilla release based on the
"Open Source" code release. (Sure, there's been M3; I ran it for 15
minutes, watched visuals drawn wrong slowly, and then put it down.)
*That's no prank.*
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fergus Henderson)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: buffer space consumption (was: How about /dev/web?)
Date: 3 Apr 1999 17:22:15 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro) writes:
>Joseph H Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Which reminds me of another fix I'd like to see done to Linux: you should be
>>able to set a limit on the amount of buffer space a process can cause to
>>become allocated. The idea is that you should be able to 'tar' a large
>>drive without causing all of your database server pages or buffers to be
>>paged out (which would cause the users to complain that the database is
>>slow). I would assume that this kind of working set limit would be useful
>>more generally as a way to reduce paging.
>
> One problem: buffer space is heavily shared. And there is read-ahead.
>And there is metadata stuff (*especially* heavily shared). And there is fork.
I think rather than a fixed limit, what we really want is something
more like an equivalent to `nice' but for consumption of buffer space
rather than consumption of CPU time. The kernel already uses some
heuristics for deciding which buffers to reuse; presumably it should not
be particularly difficult to factor a per-process `buffer niceness'
into that calculation.
--
Fergus Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Mercer)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC.
Date: 3 Apr 1999 17:09:45 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Nix <$}xin{[email protected]> writes:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Mercer) writes:
>
>> Elegant? I've never heard it called that before. The question is,
>> why should I have to learn Lisp to get the most out of my editor?
>
> M-x customize is your friend.
>
> Outside of that, well, `you have to learn it because you do'.
>
> It's just the way Emacs works; and it makes for such power I'm quite
> glad it works that way. Lisp is a very simple language, after all.
>
>> > I know which wins in *my* book. This cannot be defined as an advantage
>> > on the part of nedit. No matter how good a special-purpose langauge is,
>> > it is almost beyond the bounds of possibility that it is as good as
>> > lisp.[2]
>>
>> It doesn't have to be. It only has to be good enough to get the
>> job done, which nedit does.
>
> Emacs's job is not `to edit text', though. And further, editing text is
> a very complex job; the autoindentation code in c-mode does syntactic
> analysis to determine where your lines should be indented to &c, and
> noweb-mode jumps between {language} and LaTeX modes on the fly while
> keeping each happy - can you do *that* sort of thing with nedit's macro
> language?
>
Don't do LaTex, don't ever want to. I've never found indentation to
be all that complicated. Nedit inserts my templates properly and knows
whether I'm writing ksh, Applix Macro, C/C++, awk, dtksh, tcl, make, html
or programs specification files. It can summon man files at the
touch of a key or auto-complete my function calls (with the aid of
of a dtksh script should my fragment match against multiple functions).
I would be willing to bet I spent less time customizing nedit than people
I know have spent customizing emacs. And I haven't had to learn a
language I don't need outside of my editor.
--
Dan Mercer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:39:05 -0600
Jeremy Crabtree wrote:
>
> (Sorry, I just couldn't resist...;)
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] allegedly wrote:
> [SNIP]
>
> >Are you saying the the X windowing system is a worthless
> >piece of software, because you can use linux with virtual consoles only?
>
> YEAH! X is WORTHLESS for /exactly/ that reason! Heck, I even have
> root-menus on my consoles! ;P
>
> (BTW, I really do have root-menus on my consoles ;)
So?
I have *root beer* on my console, but I'm not bragging about
it; I'm looking for a towel.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: James Goldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:08:54 -0700
Alexander Viro wrote:
> IMHO it's RH *trouble*. Bad luck, if you prefer such term. Discussing
> what *might* happen is pretty much pointless - RH made a kind of press
> that attracted an odd crowd of gimme-Windows-not-from-Evil-Empire
> lusers.
So what's wrong with that? Getting away from Bills Happy Point'n'Drool
Playgroud is exactly what got me started on Linux. Now that I've got it
all set up and I have a clue how to use it, I actually have come to love
it for its features and could no longer care less about Microshaft. Or
whether anybody else switches, for that matter.
> It's about luserness. Quite a different thing. RH got a lot of newbies
> (probably more than other distributions, but I suspect that nobody has
> numbers) *plus* almost all lusers. The thing being, lusers are much
> more vocal...
True, but how do you distinguish the two? For me, a Linux luser is one
who expects Linux to be exactly like windows and gets really annoyed
when it isn't. But who's fault is it that the Linux world is rapidly
filling up with this ilk? I'll tell you who: Microsoft and general
ignorance.
People have been stuck with DOS/Win31/95/98/NT/CE/2000 for so long they
can't imagine anything else. That's M$'s influence. And now there's this
big ol' bandwagon again. Linux has become a buzzword.
I consider this rather bizarre, in a way. I mean, if you've been
speaking only English all your life and you decide to learn Norwegian or
something, you'd be an idiot to expect it to be the same, wouldn't you?
Yet so many people think in just that way about operating systems.
That's the ignorance part.
For me, switching to Linux was exactly what I expected. I mean, I *knew*
it would be different in the same way learning DOS was a pain when my
experience up to that time was Commodore64 (don't laugh - I loved that
machine!). So I knew I'd have to read a lot to get good.
James
=====================================================================
DOS is evil
Windows95 is eviler
Windows98 is evilerer
Windows2000? I wonder ...
------------------------------
From: Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: arp problem when setting NOARP?
Date: 03 Apr 1999 18:55:28 +0200
Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Greg Herlein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > monitor# tcpdump -neli eth1
> > tcpdump: listening on eth1
> > 17:47:06.651781 0:40:5:41:a4:aa 0:0:0:0:0:0 0800 98: 192.168.10.2 >
> > 192.168.10.1: icmp: echo request
> > 17:47:07.646843 0:40:5:41:a4:aa 0:40:5:31:d:cf 0800 98: 192.168.10.2 >
> > 192.168.10.1: icmp: echo request
> > 17:47:07.646926 0:40:5:31:d:cf 0:0:0:0:0:0 0800 98: 192.168.10.1 >
> > 192.168.10.2: icmp: echo reply
> > 17:47:08.646791 0:40:5:41:a4:aa 0:40:5:31:d:cf 0800 98: 192.168.10.2 >
> > 192.168.10.1: icmp: echo request
> > 17:47:08.646821 0:40:5:31:d:cf 0:40:5:41:a4:aa 0800 98: 192.168.10.1 >
> > 192.168.10.2: icmp: echo reply
> >
> >
> > Whenever the an interface has the NOARP flag set, the first packet sent
> > from each host has the destination MAC 00:00:00:00:00 instead of the other
> > hosts' MAC address. All subsequent frames sent will be sent correctly to
> > the other host's MAC address, but when the interface is left idle for 2-5
> > minutes, or the NOARP flag is toggled on the interface, the problem
> > recurrs and the first packet will be sent to 00:00:00:00:00. This problem
> > is completely eliminated when the NOARP flag is removed from the
> > interface.
>
> This is correct behaviour. NOARP means "there is no MAC address on this
> link", and it is actually the bug that it fills in an Mac address on
> the second output (this is caused by an interaction with the L2 header
> cache)
To follow up myself:
You can get the effect you want by not setting the NOARP flag,
and doing
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/neigh/ethX/ucast_solicit
echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/neigh/ethX/mcast_solicit
Then the neighbour cache management code will never send out any ARP
requests.
I hope this helps,
-Andi
--
This is like TV. I don't like TV.
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Give it a rest! (was Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux
6.0)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:37:03 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Enkidu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >Bill Anderson wrote:
>
> >> To ignore these facts, and claim they do nothing other than
> >> collect stuff, is to appear foolish.
> >>
> >Are you suggesting that the Redhat sysadmin apps, install process
> >etc are *essential* to run Linux? If so you are wrong. All they do
> >is tie you in to doing it the Redhat way!
>
> Are you saying that emacs is a worthless piece of software, because people
> could as well use vi?
This thread is a perfect example of the postulate that given
suffficient time, any thread in a *nix discussion group will
eventually degenerate into an "emacs vs vi" polemic.
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Proposal: "Linux 2000 Platform"
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam P. Jenkins)
Date: 03 Apr 1999 12:39:43 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne) writes:
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> $EDITOR = "jed";
> $xemacsps = `ps aex | grep gnuserv | wc -l`;
> $xemacsps --;
> $xemacsps --;
> $emacsps = `ps aex | grep emacs | wc -l `;
> $emacsps --;
> $emacsps --;
> if ($xemacsps > 0) {
> $EDITOR = "gnuclient";
> } elsif ($emacsps > 0) {
> $EDITOR = "emacsclient";
> }
> $command = $EDITOR . " " . $ARGV[0];
> print $command, "\n";
> exec $command;
This is completely off-topic, but a couple of things about your script
confuse me. I use something similar to this on my computer.
1) Why do you use the 'e' option to ps? (This doesn't hurt anything
though.)
2) Why do you decrement $xemacsps and $emacsps twice?
3) If you run 'ps ax |grep gnuserv', sometimes grep will find two
lines; itself and the actual gnuserv command, and sometimes it will
only find gnuserv. At least it's that way on my system; it's
non-deterministic whether grep will print 1 or 2 lines. A trick to
make grep never find itself is to write 'ps ax |grep "[g]nuserv"'.
This avoids having "gnuserv" in the grep commandline.
So I would rewrite the above script as
#!/usr/bin/perl
$EDITOR = "jed";
$xemacsps = `ps ax | grep "[g]nuserv" | wc -l`;
$emacsps = `ps ax | grep "[e]macs" | wc -l `;
if ($xemacsps > 0) {
$EDITOR = "gnuclient";
} elsif ($emacsps > 0) {
$EDITOR = "emacsclient";
}
$command = $EDITOR . " " . $ARGV[0];
print $command, "\n";
exec $command;
Adam
--
Adam P. Jenkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: Programming tools for Linux/Unix: Editor, IDE, Frontend to GCC.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 03 Apr 1999 12:20:36 -0700
Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> You may want to read the full press release of CodeWarriors for
>> Red Hat Linux
>> Metrowerks' CodeWarrior is the first widely used, commercially available
>> Integrated Development Environment (IDE) to be ported to Red Hat Linux.
>
>> http://www.metrowerks.com/
>
> But notice this shameless plug from a company into the GNU/opensource
> community... At least he's honest though... he addmitted it's
> commercial.
What's wrong with commercial software under Linux?
> You have the right to remain silent, whatever you say will be misquoted,
> then used against you. FREE KEVIN.
He's pleaded time served. He will be out of prision this year.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Subject: Re: can we do float point calculation in kernel module?
Date: 3 Apr 1999 14:11:46 -0600
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> I'm now writing some kernel modules and want to do some float point
> computing there. I tried a little bit and it seems work. But I'm not
> sure if there are any potential risks to do so.
Are you saving and restoring floating point registers? If not, you had
better hope all your user processes don't mind getting them clobbered.
I.e. no, it is not safe. And it is definitely not safe if your module
runs on a 386 without an 80387.
For bare 386 compatibility, as well as because context-switching the FP
registers is quite expensive on anything older than a PPro, the kernel
does not automatically save and restore them for itself; code that
wants to use those registers is on its own. Thus there is little or no
FP, MMX or 3DNow! in the kernel.
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: Olav Woelfelschneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux Kernel Manpages?
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:30:11 +0200
Are there manpages or other references for the kernel function calls
which support writing modules?
Yes, I know and have Rubinis book on Linux Device Drivers, and it's great.
I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in the kernel guts.
However, it would also be great if I could type e.g. `man copy_from_user'
and get an online reference.
Thanks,
--
Olav "Mac" W�lfelschneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP fingerprint = 06 5F 66 B3 2A AD 7D 2D B7 19 67 3C 95 A7 9D AF
Mer mu� doch nur emol e bissje nochdenke. -- Mundstuhl
------------------------------
From: Jonathan Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Compiled 2.2.5 Now, no mouse.
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 10:00:06 -0800
Hi all-
I have compiled 2.2.5 on my home system. The build seemed to go well,
no errors, boots fine, finds and loads modules. However, when I try to
start X, it barfs and tells me "could not start mouse, no such device"
or something to that effect.
I've re-compiled it numerous time now turning on and off all the mouse
options to no avail. I noticed that in the kernel config for 2.0.36
there is a basic mouse support option in addition to PS/2 and other
types. In the 2.2.5 config there is the "Mice" section which seems to be
for PS/2 mice and some different bus mice. I didn't find an option for
basic mouse support like there used to be. Am I missing some thing?
In contrast...
I built the 2.2.5 kernel on my system at work, (where I do Slowlaris sys
admin from a LINUX box, love it!), and all went perfectly the first
shot, mouse, no problem.
The two systems are of course different hrdwr but I maintain the
software some what in parallel. Same basic configuration, same updates,
etc.
They both have generic serial mice.
Can any one possibly shed some light on this?
Thanks in advance!
-Jonathan Adams
--
NAR #72925 HPR Level 1, BayNAR Secretary
http://idt.net/~jfadams/roc/
http://www.baynar.org/
http://www.lunar.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Give it a rest! (was Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat
Linux 6.0)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 22:38:57 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:37:03 -0600...
..and John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Enkidu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >Bill Anderson wrote:
> >
> > >> To ignore these facts, and claim they do nothing other than
> > >> collect stuff, is to appear foolish.
> > >>
> > >Are you suggesting that the Redhat sysadmin apps, install process
> > >etc are *essential* to run Linux? If so you are wrong. All they do
> > >is tie you in to doing it the Redhat way!
> >
> > Are you saying that emacs is a worthless piece of software, because people
> > could as well use vi?
>
> This thread is a perfect example of the postulate that given
> suffficient time, any thread in a *nix discussion group will
> eventually degenerate into an "emacs vs vi" polemic.
Heh. I suppose I've got to rewrite Warkus' Theory of Usenet Quirk
Dynamics.
mawa
--
Lay me down, Carolina, lay me down, one more time, don't wanta wake me
up in the morning, no more. Sing me, one last old song, before they
close, the minstral show.
-- The Carter Family and Garrison Keilor, A Prairie Home Companion.
------------------------------
From: Conrado Buhrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: CORBA using kernel recources...
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:49:33 +0200
Hello,
>From what I have heard CORBA is having trouble linking files with
applications.. What are the chances of using CORBA to create a desktop
enviroment using kernel recources to direct the links between files and
apps ? Windows is miles ahead in this area, this is also something that
has become the main attraction of users towards Windows.
Finding a way for the desktop enviroment to control a small minority of
the kernel recources would be really helpfull in putting items in the
background of the desktop, dumping the image into a free memory device
and drawing it with regular corba resources.
Linking the files would be easy, but a database should also be created
to support the search strings over the internet, in one huge file.
Just an idea, thanks, Conrad.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Idea: Make a seperate "i686" tree for Redhat Linux 6.0
Date: 3 Apr 1999 21:02:18 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Thompson allegedly wrote:
>Jeremy Crabtree wrote:
>>
>> (Sorry, I just couldn't resist...;)
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] allegedly wrote:
>> [SNIP]
>>
>> >Are you saying the the X windowing system is a worthless
>> >piece of software, because you can use linux with virtual consoles only?
>>
>> YEAH! X is WORTHLESS for /exactly/ that reason! Heck, I even have
>> root-menus on my consoles! ;P
>>
>> (BTW, I really do have root-menus on my consoles ;)
>
>So?
>
>I have *root beer* on my console, but I'm not bragging about
>it; I'm looking for a towel.
Hrm...got root.beer stuck on tty* huh? Better check in
/pub/linen_closet and, failing that, /pub/laundry/clean
for towels.tgz
BTW, don't worry about the compression, it will expand
itself as it consumes the root.beer
--
"Being myself a remarkably stupid fellow, I have had to unteach myself
the difficulties, and now beg to present to my fellow fools the parts
that are not hard" --Silvanus P. Thompson, from "Calculus Made Easy."
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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