Linux-Development-Sys Digest #811, Volume #6 Thu, 10 Jun 99 16:14:20 EDT
Contents:
Re: Where is linux free download? (Christopher Browne)
Re: long long... how to use?? ("Dan Miller")
Re: Kernel and Modules (Sylvan Butler)
pThreads and STL in RedHat 6.0 (Allen Curtis)
Re: long long... how to use?? ("John Burton")
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Anthony Ord)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Anthony Ord)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Re: long long... how to use?? ("Dan Miller")
Re: new kernel: LILO "kernel too big" error ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Any Journaling FS development? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Filesystems: Get full pathname from I-node ?? ("J�rgen Exner")
Re: Network Wide Systems Adminstration Software (Jonathan Abbey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Where is linux free download?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:36:52 GMT
On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:24:23 -0700, Assembly Wizard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I just spent an hour crusing the net looking for linux to download.
>Seems every site was selling linux.
>
>I downloaded it last year but am unable to find the free site I got it
>from...can some kind soul help?
Question #1. Which distribution do you intend to use?
*Real* precise answers may be attainable if you tell us that. In the
case of Debian <http://www.debian.org>, downloading across the
Internet is one of the better ways of getting it.
Alternatively, take a look at <http://metalab.unc.edu/mdw/linux.html>,
which is one of the major sites where a *LOT* of Linux "stuff" may be
obtained.
Question #2. How hard did you look?
<http://www.linux.org> would be a not-half-bad starting point. Or see
my URL below...
Question #3. How fast is your network connection?
If you have a slow connection, it is probably more economical to
"kickstart" things by buying one of those cheap CDs.
If you feel your time is of less value than the $10 that you might pay
for CD+Shipping+Handling, then feel free to spend the extra time
downloading stuff.
Places like <http://www.linuxcentral.com>, <http://www.lsl.com>, and
<http://www.cheapbytes.com> can provide you 600-odd-MB of "Linux
stuff" that doesn't have to be pulled across a network connection for
a couple of dollars.
--
"Using Java as a general purpose application development language is like
going big game hunting armed with Nerf weapons." -- Author Unknown
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
------------------------------
From: "Dan Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long long... how to use??
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:54:34 -0700
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!
I was *hoping* there were new extensions for this data type, but I
couldn't find references anywhere in the source code!!
That worked perfectly (as you knew it would...)
Dan M
Reality is a point of view wrote in message ...
> +---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:14:07 -0700):
> | How do I get actual, working, 64-bit math??
> +----
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>int main( void )
>{
> long long int a = 4118737465LL;
> long long int b = 4118466591LL;
> long long int c = a + b;
> printf( "%lli %lli = %lli\n", a, b, c );
> return 0;
>}
>
>--
>Gary Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Privacy on the net is still illegal.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sylvan Butler)
Crossposted-To: hp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Kernel and Modules
Date: 10 Jun 1999 17:20:32 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:33:26 -0700, David Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Sylvan Butler wrote:
>>Check the output of 'uname -r' when running under each kernel.
>
>Alas... I would if I could. I can't seem to get booted SMP! This is what
>has given rise to my questions.
Oh! Why didn't you say so? (Or did you and I just spaced it...)
Have you tried single-user mode SMP? (At the lilo prompt add 'single'
as a parameter to the kernel name.)
sdb
--
| Sylvan Butler | Not speaking for Hewlett-Packard | sbutler-boi.hp.com |
| Watch out for my e-mail address. Thank UCE. #### change ^ to @ #### |
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin, 1759
"Don't Tread On Me!"
------------------------------
From: Allen Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.app
Subject: pThreads and STL in RedHat 6.0
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:06:39 -0700
I have glibc version 2.1.1-6 and do not seem to be able to link a
program that uses both pThreads and STL. I know that has worked before.
Can anyone tell me what the secret is to doing this?
Thanks for the help.
------------------------------
From: "John Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long long... how to use??
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:19:13 +0100
Yes. prink has it's own implementation separate from the standard
"printf" and it doesn't know about this sort of thing.
Dan Miller wrote in message <7jovhp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Is there some reason why this wouldn't work in a device driver??
>I took the same code, put it in my proc handler, and instead of
>printing out (for example)
>
> v3 = 4,118,466,591
>
>it prints out
>
> v3 = %li
>
>yet, sizeof(v3) returns 8, which means the compiler knows the
>data type; are printk and sprintf just less capable in a driver??
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:32:24 GMT
On Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:08:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jimen
Ching) wrote:
>Anthony Ord ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>On Fri, 04 Jun 1999 22:29:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jimen
>>Ching) wrote:
>>>university. They took everything ESR said to heart, without question.
>>>And when I raised a question, the audiance was the first to defend the
>>>ideas. This is not the type of environment I would expect from academia.
>>transmit photons and yet have no mass or anything else. It
>>is needed because otherwise we wouldn't exist (remind anyone
>>of The Creator?) and despite looking for it, no one can find
>>it (remind anyone of The Creator?).
>
>I think you misunderstood me, because you just proved my point. Just as
>astronomers and astrologers shouldn't just accept CDM, so shouldn't CS
>professors and scientists accept 'open source'. The thoery and benefit
>behind 'open source' should be proven with data. I saw no data to back up
>the theories in ESR's papers. But the prof's and grad-students that attended
>the lecture accepted it without question.
You said "This is not the type of environment I would expect
from academia.". My assertion was this is EXACTLY the
environment I would expect from academia.
>>>i.e. teenage, software developer wanabee. I'll admit there are a few
>>>gifted teenagers who can write better software then some of the 40 year
>>>olds I know. But these teenagers are rear.
>>Or rare even... ;-) Or are you saying they are anal and I've
>>misinterpreted it?
>
>Whoops. I think the next evolution of the keyboard should place the
>letter 'e' and the letter 'r' as far away from each other as possible.
>This was not the first time I made this mistake. :)
>
>>But if I go back to my favourite saying - "A demonstration
>>is worth a thousand Usenet messages.". That always should be
>
>Was this derived from 'A picture is worth a thousand words'?
And something else, but I've forgotten what the something
else is.
>You understand
>that this only applies if the concept you're trying to discuss has physical
>form. How does one demonstrate that a file system based on objects is
>superior to one that is not? Does simply having _source code_ prove this
>point? It may make it easier to prove, but the source code is not the proof
>itself.
No, you create both and test them. You can theorise until
the cows come home, but tests are the only way you'll find
out. Filesystems are so heavily used, any slight difference
will be really magnified.
>>>3. The third problem I saw can be summed up with, "theory without data".
>>>This is the same problem ESR had with all his papers. There are no data
>>>to support any of the ideas and concepts being discussed. Examples are
>>>not data.
>>They are if there are enough of them. I can't prove people
>>will die, but I have enough examples to put forward a
>>statistically significant case...
>
>People die because of cellular deterioration. This can be proven without
>using examples.
No it can't. You can't even define dead unless you have a
dead body (an example) to measure (24hrs without brainstem
activity - except people have suddenly sprung back to life
after more than 24hrs of no brainstem activity, but we won't
mention them here)
>But I understand your point. But in this case, examples
>are not enough. ESR theorises that the recognition factor is the _major_
>factor that drives the open source community. Yes, you can find examples
>of this. But is it the MAJOR factor? Did he do a survey and counted up
>all of the votes and saw that egotism is the top reason for the existance
>of the free software community?
Even a survey isn't good enough if you want proof. All that
97% confidence limits mean, is that 3% of your surveys are
absolute crap.
If you don't like his theory, come up with a different one.
Then you can do these seminars, and get invited into catered
functions for free...
>>You can't expect the guy to do a full analysis of it while
>>on stage. You are always going to get quick answers in such
>>a situation. Can you think of a reason why it shouldn't be?
>
>I expect him to at least think about it.
He's in the middle of a talk! What did you expect him to do?
Sit down and ponder for three hours? If you want to ask him
such a hard question which you believe deserves a lot of
thought, then email the guy so he has plenty of time.
>If he doesn't know the answer,
>I expect him to admit it, rather than give me some lame answer. He has
>given enough of these lectures to know better.
If people didn't answer things unless they were absolutely
100% sure of the answer, the only questions that would be
answered would be the banal ones. These talks are not for
him to do the work of deciding whether OS is applicable to a
given situation, they are for him to share his knowledge so
*YOU* can decide whether OS is applicable to a given
situation.
After all, you will know the whys and wherefores of the
situations better than he. All his answer says, is that he
does not know of any particular show-stopper that would kill
your analysis before it begins.
>--jc
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:32:26 GMT
On 9 Jun 1999 12:16:16 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donal K.
Fellows) wrote:
>In article <jc473.4152$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Jimen Ching <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I think you misunderstood me, because you just proved my point.
>> Just as astronomers and astrologers shouldn't just accept CDM, so
>> shouldn't CS professors and scientists accept 'open source'. The
>> thoery and benefit behind 'open source' should be proven with data.
>> I saw no data to back up the theories in ESR's papers. But the
>> prof's and grad-students that attended the lecture accepted it
>> without question.
>
>I think they recognise it as peer-review, which has a (*very*) long
>history of being pretty darned effective, especially so in the more
>engineering disciplines (of which CS is one) where many eyeballs means
>that many more problems get spotted...
You have got to be joking. Peer review is not all it is
cracked up to be. It is unduly influenced by fashion, and
what could be best described as "religion".
These days, it is unduly influenced by commercial
considerations.
The only thing peer review measures in controversial areas
is persistence of the person whose ideas are being reviewed.
Scientific "fitness" plays much less significant role than
reputation for such things.
Watch "The Planets" (long, boring, but often informative)
and see how many times they say "This theory was first
mooted 80 years ago.". You can bet peer review hammered that
flat.
And of course there are the things peer review misses like
Ether etc.
>Or are you going to suggest a "better" process than peer-review?
There is no process that can take the bigoted human out of
the equation, and that is the problem.
>Donal.
Regards
Anthony
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:50:38 GMT
Christopher Browne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: If you intend to roust up support for your project, it is *your*
: responsibility to support *your* proposal.
: Usenet is filled with cranks.
: There are people that have peculiar views about tax law. Others with
: peculiar views about physics. Some with peculiar views about computer
: systems.
: Your posts are more consistent with representing the views of a
: "crank" than those of someone that knows exactly what they are doing.
: Feel free to implement the system, and disprove this perception.
the essay is an assertion that the design goals outlined in it
are possible to achieve. agreed: the end system would be an
existence proof. it would also put the cart before the horse.
the essay is the horse that may pull the cart. the cart requires
people to jump on. again, your words above are essentially,
"I will call you a bozo until you disprove me". it misses
the fundamental point of the essay: to outline an idea.
it's like saying, "sure you say you have a building design..
SO WHAT?? who cares? when you have all 100 stories finished, call me up,
and I might not call you such a jackass"
: The point was that architects need to have training and experience in
: what is and is not feasible, otherwise the structures will never get
: built.
you don't really come out and say this, but I take it that the
architecture idea is essentially saying that some of my key
design goals are impossible or not feasible. which ones? why
do you assert that? plz be m ore specific..
: In the profession of Architecture (as in "folks that design
: buildings"), an architect is required to study both art *and*
: engineering.
blah,blah,blah. architecture vs. artistry. both are necessary.
both need to know what they are doing. we agree, unless you want
to say you disagree again<g>
your post again amounts to, "show me more before I stop
calling you a bozo". (which I will probably stop
replying to). but this is the moving goalpost problem.
there is no end to how much I can continue to contribute
and still be subject to criticism such as yours. so I am not
too interested in the vague criticisms of people who say,
"you have not done enough work not to escape my further
criticism".. all work is incomplete, eh? even linux.
"great works of art are never completed, only abandoned"..
who said that anyway?
every key that someone types on a keyboard toward the
goal is another nudge toward the goal. every criticism
such as yours is an obstacle to be overcome, that doesn't
really need to be erected in the 1st place.
what I describe in the essay WILL BE REALIZED. not
necessarily by me or those who have read the essay.
that I have great confidence in. in fact I am not
so interested in carrying out all the low level details.
the outright hostility I've encountered here makes me
even less interested.
if I do contribute more, it will be because of a positive
motive such as making it come about, rather than trying
to disprove taunters such as yourself.
--
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"in theory, there's no difference [EMAIL PROTECTED]
between theory and practice, mad genius research lab
but in practice there is!" http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/
------------------------------
From: "Dan Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long long... how to use??
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:19:38 -0700
Is there some reason why this wouldn't work in a device driver??
I took the same code, put it in my proc handler, and instead of
printing out (for example)
v3 = 4,118,466,591
it prints out
v3 = %li
yet, sizeof(v3) returns 8, which means the compiler knows the
data type; are printk and sprintf just less capable in a driver??
Reality is a point of view wrote in message ...
> +---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:14:07 -0700):
> | How do I get actual, working, 64-bit math??
> +----
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>int main( void )
>{
> long long int a = 4118737465LL;
> long long int b = 4118466591LL;
> long long int c = a + b;
> printf( "%lli %lli = %lli\n", a, b, c );
> return 0;
>}
>
>--
>Gary Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Privacy on the net is still illegal.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: new kernel: LILO "kernel too big" error
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:43:33 GMT
i was thinking the very same thing. i had a 600+k
kernel and a 508k kernel (both 2.2.5-15) that
worked when doing an /sbin/lilo. however my 471k
2.2.9 kernel did not an resulted in a kernel too
big error. desperate i tried make bzImage and it
worked. far fetched and questionable but it did
work. let me know if this works for you or if we
have to find a better solution that works for all.
--
Curt Rebelein, Junior
http://rebby.com/
"Linux is user friendly,
it's just picky about
its friends."
In article <7jnu3b$d0f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Martin A. Boegelund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> In article <kwf73.292$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "steve davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > I'm finding it hard to believe that 426KB is
actually too big - I get
> the
> > feeling this is a bogus message and something
else is going on here.
> >
>
> Me too. I had a kernel-source (2.2.9) and a
.config file that worked
> with RH5.2, but using those with RH6.0 gave me
"kernel too big".
> Also, using "make bzImage" might not help, since
I later on get
> problems with compiling my modules; I get errors
from modules I
> _didn't_ select... Well they are selected, but
greyed out by an earlier
> de-selection so they shouldn't have any
influence on module
> compilation, or what?
> Very strange...
>
> Any comments, ideas, help???
>
> [deletia]
>
> --
> ------------------
> Mr Sparkle - Aka Martin A. Boegelund
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Any Journaling FS development?
Date: 10 Jun 1999 14:04:42 -0500
Reply-To: "J.L.M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>yup - stephen tweedie is working on journaling code for e2fs, and in
Does he have a cvs repository where we can get our grubby little hands
on the work-in-progress?
>addition SGI is working in porting and releasing linux code for the XFS
>filesystem.
I wonder why they're waiting until "later this summer" to "begin
releasing code"
--
James
http://ssdd.conservatory.com
------------------------------
From: "J�rgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Filesystems: Get full pathname from I-node ??
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:22:08 -0700
Reply-To: "J�rgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ELSID Software Systems LTD. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Does any one know of a method of finding the complete pathname of a file
> given
> the i-node of that file.
>
> From what I have read it appears that the file system structures are
> only set up
> to get the I-node given a pathname but not the reverse.
You are aware that there may be multiple directory entries for the same file
(aka hard links) as well as no directory entry at all for a given file (only
remaining link is an open file descriptor in a process)?
Having said that the best method to get the directory entries (if one
exists) is to use "find" and search for the inode value or if it's a
frequent task to dump a directory listing with "ls -i" into a file and then
to use grep to search for lines with that inode number.
jue
--
J�rgen Exner
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Abbey)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Network Wide Systems Adminstration Software
Date: 9 Jun 1999 19:21:06 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jordan Mendelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
| Hello all,
|
| I have a situation which I believe faces a large amount of the people who have
| large networks setup out there.
|
| I run an ISP which does dialup internet access, web hosting, colocation, mail
| hosting, database hosting, shell services, etc. All the basic stuff you'd expect
| from an ISP. The problem I've run into is accounting and management across
| multiple machines.
|
| [...]
|
| I've come up with a solution which would maintain backwards compatibility while
| individual daemons are updated to handle access to configuration directly.
|
| Basically what happens is that I'd push all my configuration data, /etc/passwd,
| /etc/shadow, /etc/group, /etc/named.conf, /var/named/db.*, httpd.conf, virtuals
| config, pop.virt, aliases, virtusertable, etc to a SQL database such as Mysql,
| Oracle, Informix, etc.
|
| A client daemon would sit on every machine and update configuration from the
| database back into the configuration files themselves restarting other daemons
| such as apache automatically. For example, every half minute new changes for the
| passwd database would be aquired and merged into /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow,
| any new users would have home directories created and skel copied over, quotas
| would be established on all machines for that user where they have access, etc.
|
| Another example is I add a domain to the database, apache configuration is
| automatically updated, the user is given frontpage/webdav access i required,
| virtual ip is setup, nameservice is reconfigured to handle the domain,
| relay-domains and/or sendmail.cw is updated on all mail servers is updated to be
| able to accept mail as that host, etc.
|
| This particular configuration has the advantage that if the database ever goes
| down, configuration data still exists on all the machines and they continue to
| run.
|
| Data can be easily accessed from an outside source since it's all stored on a
| standard SQL database, you can export it any way you want or easily build a
| billing database around it.
|
| However, this solution is not truly optimal as it is really just a big hack :)
| Does anyone know of any similar system that exists out there? I've been
| searching all over. So far I've found SFI Director
| (http://www.sfi.ch/english/main_e.html) which has similar functionality,
| Ganymede (http://www.arlut.utexas.edu/gash2/) that looks like the beginnings of
| a system which could be extended to do it, COAS (http://www.coas.org/) which is
| poorly documented but looks promising, NIS/NIS+ of course, DCE defines a CDS
| system which handles similar tasks.
As the author of Ganymede, I'd say that the sort of stuff you're
wanting to do is not at all likely to come right out of a box on any
UNIX network. The best we were able to come up with is an extendable
system with an efficient database system with plug-in code and scripts
to propagate data into your environment.
You might find that something like Ganymede, combined with an SQL
database and something like Mark Burgess' cfengine
(http://www.iu.hioslo.no/cfengine/) would be useful for you.. you'd
make changes through Ganymede, which would in turn propagate data into
the SQL database for your billing and into cfengine for your system
configuration, etc.
We push data from Ganymede into NIS, DNS, Radius, LDAP, Apache, our
Samba password file, and into our NT PDC as well. Having Ganymede
serve as a well-managed control point which can then propagate the
changes out to various services really works well, and any system
you'd get or build would have to work in that fashion.
Note that Ganymede alone wouldn't take care of your situation of
having a user put a CD in a drive and run some code to connect to
Ganymede directly, as Ganymede needs the account to be set up ahead of
time for the user to connect with, but you could create an auxiliary
server or something web-based which could accept information from the
user and connect back to the Ganymede server to get the job done.
Strategies like that can also get around the problem of Ganymede
needing all clients to be written in Java.
| Jordan
|
| --
| Jordan Mendelson : http://jordy.wserv.com
| Web Services, Inc. : http://www.wserv.com
--
===============================================================================
Jonathan Abbey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Applied Research Laboratories The University of Texas at Austin
===============================================================================
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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