Linux-Development-Sys Digest #871, Volume #6 Thu, 24 Jun 99 05:14:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: gcc byte packing of inherited class data (Nathan Myers)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Terry Murphy)
Re: using C++ for linux device drivers (Nathan Myers)
Re: Why not C++ (Nathan Myers)
Re: PCMCIA eth card does not work correctly, please help. (Nathan Myers)
Re: vesafb for S3 868? (Olav Woelfelschneider)
Need help porting DOS app that uses parallel port ("Chris A. Henesy")
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Greg White)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Daniel Robert Franklin)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Michael Gu)
Distributed Robotic Systems with low bandwidth network (Fung Wai Keung)
Re: Difficulty in compiling kernel 2.2.10 (Marc Mutz)
Re: Linux Books (Reid Gravelle)
Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Michael Gu)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Todd Knarr)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Subject: Re: gcc byte packing of inherited class data
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:29:50 -0700
Erwin S. Andreasen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:27:42 +0000, Bruce Edge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>I can't get gcc to pack this data:
>>
>>class a { char c; };
>>class b { long l; };
>>class c : public a, public b {};
Why should it? This is a _gross_ misuse of multiple inheritance.
struct c { a m_a; b m_b; };
is a much better starting point for this kind of work, if indeed
it's wise to trust the compiler to do it (which I doubt).
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Murphy)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 24 Jun 1999 01:17:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Re: why Database configuration systems are bad]
>A few reasons:
>o A failure of a proprietary, binary dataset results in total system
>failure. Solution: reinstall OS.
A database configuration editor can be used to edit a damaged
databases. There is no reason why a well designed database
would be more susceptible to damage than a text file. There
is not much meta-data in fixed-length databases.
>o In order to fix it, it needs to have a running system with full a
>toolsuite.
So VI/EMACS is not a tool? The only tool you need to repair database
configuration settings is your database configuration editor, just as
the only tool need for text based configuration is a text editor. You
need one type of tool for one format, and another type for a different
format. I don't see what is difficult about this.
Actually, a database configuration editor is a much simpler program
than a text editor. On the machine I'm at now, REGEDIT.EXE is 71K,
and VI.EXE is 231K. I'm certain that the difference between SYSGEN
and EDIT/TPU is even much more noticeable.
>o Buggy
Implementation specific.
>o Instable
Implementation specific. Since the configuration database can in
principle be implemented with any sort of database system, this
would be like saying that database implementations (such as Oracle,
etc.) are inherently unstable.
>o Overly Complex
Hmm, what is more complex? Each program having its own code to
read its own configuration file format, and each programmer having
to design his own file format and design and test his own routines
to parse it, or have one universal set of access routines, which come
pre-tested, and which all users understand how to us3?
I'll tell you what's overly complex and utterly slow: LinuxConf.
The reason for this is precisely because it has to muck with and
generate all sorts of text based configuration scripts, instead of
easily readable binary files.
One key feature of a database conifguration system, which I never see
mentioned, is that it is machine writable/editable. E.g. a GUI editor
for a sendmail.cf file would be extremely, extremely difficult.
-- Terry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Subject: Re: using C++ for linux device drivers
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:06:27 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers) writes:
>> Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers) writes:
>> >> Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >Justin Vallon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro) writes:
>
>> >> >> void *operator new(size_t s) { return malloc(s); /* kmalloc, etc */ }
>> >> >> void operator delete(void *p) { free(p); }
>> >> >
>> >> >#define new((x)) malloc((x))
>> >> >#define delete((x)) free((x))
>> >>
>how is my #define method any less broken than the function version to which
>i was replying?
Bluntly, because Justin's(?) code would mostly work, modulo allocation
failures. Yours would not work at all.
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:40:53 -0700
Ralph Glebe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are all the programs in C because: [speculation]
There are quite a lot of C++ projects on Linux. C projects (still)
outnumber them for several reasons.
1. C is an easier language to learn to use fully, so you may get
better participation on a C project because you're drawing on
a larger population.
2. It takes substantial extra effort to code C++ libraries that are
binary-compatible from one release to the next, so library version
problems are incrementally harder.
3. The C++ compiler has only recently got very good, and (much of)
the Standard C++ Library for it isn't ready yet.
None of these have proven prohibitive, but they are extra barriers.
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Subject: Re: PCMCIA eth card does not work correctly, please help.
Date: 23 Jun 1999 21:19:52 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Rabinovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello, i have installed linux on IBM thinkpag 560E, i user 3com
>3CCFEM556B 10/100 ethernet card, which works fine under windows, in
>linux link light goes off, but i can't ping anything but myself, i am
>pretty sure network is configured correctly.
What kernel? What pcmcia-cs? There are fixes for this card
in pcmcia-cs-3.0.12. (No, I haven't used it yet.)
See also the note about the serial driver, toward the bottom of the
BUGS file in that pcmcia-cs release.
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: Olav Woelfelschneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: vesafb for S3 868?
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:18:55 +0200
Modemch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
M> There's a patch for the vesa-fb code at http://www.colonel-panic.com. It
M> works with S3 chipsets (worked with my Stealth 64).
Thanks. I'll try this right now.
--
Olav "Mac" W�lfelschneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP fingerprint = 06 5F 66 B3 2A AD 7D 2D B7 19 67 3C 95 A7 9D AF
AIRPORT: A place where people hurry up and wait.
------------------------------
From: "Chris A. Henesy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Need help porting DOS app that uses parallel port
Date: 24 Jun 1999 03:27:52 GMT
I am porting some DOS software that makes use of two function apparently
located in a header file called dos.h These function are outport, and
inport. I am trying to find the linux equivilents. The output function
takes two values (in HEX), one is the port address, the other is the data
to output. The inport is a little more complicated, but I suspect the
function is the same. Also the version of stdlib they used had a function
itoa to convert integers to characters. Linux seems to have an atoi but
no itoa. Any advice here?
Thanks,
Chris A. Henesy
--
"(America is) a country where a dual morality, hypocrisy and nonsense have
been allowed to dominate politics and the mass media for years, and this
doesn't make it look so reliable as a world policeman..."
-The Swedish Newspaper Aftonbladet
------------------------------
From: Greg White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 05:01:41 GMT
Michael Gu wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:29:17 -0700
> From: Junyang Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Organization: Silicon Systems, Inc.
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
>
> If Microsoft is a monopoly, X Windows acts more like a monopoly in the
> Unix world.
>
> Let's face it. X Windows is a really premitive base for modern GUI,
> terrible font support breaks GUI all the time, no sound capability, ....
> If Linux is going to desktops to compete with Microsoft, it got to come
> up with something much better then X.
>
> So, why don't we drop the X and innovate?
Wouldn't sound support really be up to the window manager, and not
XWindows itself? KDE's sound support seems quite reasonable... However,
if you're releasing code any time soon, please post here or email me and
I'll be happy to alpha/beta test..
GW
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Daniel Robert Franklin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: 24 Jun 99 06:07:20 GMT
Michael Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>If Microsoft is a monopoly, X Windows acts more like a monopoly in the
>Unix world.
Not really. There are several alternatives, but none are yet anywhere as
mature or functional as X. Berlin (www.berlin-consortium.org), the Y
Window System (www.hungry.com - seems to have died a natural death), MGR,
8 1/2, GNUstep (www.gnustep.org, NOT intrinsically dependant on X)... none
of these are what I would call usable alternatives (yet).
>Let's face it. X Windows is a really premitive base for modern GUI,
>terrible font support breaks GUI all the time,
Fonts could certainly be better. GNUStep's Display PostScript is probably
the best answer.
>no sound capability, ....
Ummm, X is a networked graphics protocol. It has nothing to do with sound.
If you want to "add" sound support, you probably should look at one of the
network audio protocols.
>If Linux is going to desktops to compete with Microsoft, it got to come
>up with something much better then X.
Such as?
>So, why don't we drop the X and innovate?
Go ahead. If you do come up with something, please let us know. Until
then, I'm happy to use X, which
a) exists
b) works
c) does things which Windows (with no expensive add-on components) can
only dream about.
- Daniel
--
******************************************************************************
* Daniel Franklin - Postgraduate student in Electrical Engineering
* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
******************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Michael Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:54:49 -0700
If X does not support sound in its protocal, how does KDE support sound? By what
means does a X application send sound to a X server? If you mean KDE support
sound through the kernel, then the sound can only be heard at the machine where
the X application is running on, rather than where the X server it is displaying
to, which is not very useful.
Anyway, X does look odd in the linux movement. While everything else is
evolving, X stays the same, and it is really the weak point comparing to MS
Windows. I don't think Linux will pose a threat to MS in the desktop world
unless it comes with an innovative, modern GUI that supports both video and
audio.
I have Linux and Windows both available at the same time, yet I find myself more
likely to browse the web in Windows. Netscape, (not limiting to Netscape) just
doesn't work good in X, in terms of display. While most times display problem
can be tolerable, some times it makes it unfunctional( e.g. a button is out of
the window frame and beyond reach ).
If it's too hard for X to improve and provide sufficient protocal
(specification) to be able to make any application looks the same on all X
servers, I don't see any alternative but to drop it.
Greg White wrote:
> Michael Gu wrote:
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
> > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:29:17 -0700
> > From: Junyang Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Organization: Silicon Systems, Inc.
> > Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
> >
> > If Microsoft is a monopoly, X Windows acts more like a monopoly in the
> > Unix world.
> >
> > Let's face it. X Windows is a really premitive base for modern GUI,
> > terrible font support breaks GUI all the time, no sound capability, ....
> > If Linux is going to desktops to compete with Microsoft, it got to come
> > up with something much better then X.
> >
> > So, why don't we drop the X and innovate?
>
> Wouldn't sound support really be up to the window manager, and not
> XWindows itself? KDE's sound support seems quite reasonable... However,
> if you're releasing code any time soon, please post here or email me and
> I'll be happy to alpha/beta test..
>
> GW
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fung Wai Keung)
Subject: Distributed Robotic Systems with low bandwidth network
Date: 24 Jun 1999 06:38:42 GMT
[ Article crossposted from comp.soft-sys.ace ]
[ Author was Fung Wai Keung ]
[ Posted on 24 Jun 1999 06:36:11 GMT ]
Hi all,
I'm new to ACE+TAO and COBRA. I'm planning to develop a
distributed robot system using ACE+TAO. My system will have real-time (or
near real-time) remote display of stereo images grabbed by framegrabbers
on a robot via wireless ethernet with 2Mbps bandwidth. Is it possible to
have image streaming ussing ACE+TAO via the limited bandwidth? If no,
would you give me suggestions on how to achieve it?
Thanks in advance.
--
Regards,
Wai Keung, Fung
Department of Mechanical and Automation Engineering,
The Chinese University of Hong Kong,
Shatin, N.T.,
Hong Kong.
Tel: (852)26098056 Fax: (852)26036002
--
Regards,
Wai Keung, Fung
Department of Mechanical and Automation Engineering,
The Chinese University of Hong Kong,
Shatin, N.T.,
Hong Kong.
Tel: (852)26098056 Fax: (852)26036002
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:30:52 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Difficulty in compiling kernel 2.2.10
Wei-shi Tsai wrote:
>
> I recently downloaded the source to the 2.2.10 kernel. I configured
> using make menuconfig to my satisfaction.
>
> However, when I compiled the kernel using "make zlilo", it goes almost
> perfectly (a few warnings) but suddenly while the assembler portion of
> the kernel is being compiled, the whole compilation stops with an error
> message.
>
> I tried again with "make zImage", but the compilation stops at the exact
> same point. What is going on????
try bzImage /bzlilo instead of zImage/zlilo
Marc
------------------------------
From: Reid Gravelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Books
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:18:31 GMT
I don't know of "the" book but I've used the following.
Linux Application Development
(http://www.nri.ca/Bookstore/Programming/C_CPP/LinuxAppDev.html) for
Linux and for network programming UNIX Network Programming Vol 1 & 2
(http://www.nri.ca/Bookstore/Programming/C_CPP/UNIX_NetworkPrgrmVol1.html
and
http://www.nri.ca/Bookstore/Programming/C_CPP/UNIX_NetworkPrgrmVol2.html).
Another book that I find useful is Advanced Programming in the UNIX
Environment
(http://www.nri.ca/Bookstore/Programming/C_CPP/AdvancedPrgrmng_UnixEnv.html).
Reid.
Paxton Smith wrote:
> Does anyone know of _the_ authoritative book on Linux
> network programming? I'd appreciate any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paxton
------------------------------
From: Michael Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:28:08 +0100
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: Junyang Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sender: Junyang Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Organization: Silicon Systems, Inc.
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If Microsoft is a monopoly, X Windows acts more like a monopoly in the
Unix world.
Let's face it. X Windows is a really premitive base for modern GUI,
terrible font support breaks GUI all the time, no sound capability, ....
If Linux is going to desktops to compete with Microsoft, it got to come
up with something much better then X.
So, why don't we drop the X and innovate?
------------------------------
From: Todd Knarr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: 24 Jun 1999 07:28:00 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.system Michael Gu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If X does not support sound in its protocal, how does KDE support sound? By what
> means does a X application send sound to a X server? If you mean KDE support
> sound through the kernel, then the sound can only be heard at the machine where
> the X application is running on, rather than where the X server it is displaying
> to, which is not very useful.
Two choices:
1. Provide a generic sound server protocol independent of X11. This has the
advantage of also allowing non-X11 apps to use sound.
2. Provide a sound protocol as an X11 extension instead of as part of the
basic X11 protocol.
I believe the current methods lean towards option 1.
> Anyway, X does look odd in the linux movement. While everything else is
> evolving, X stays the same, and it is really the weak point comparing to MS
> Windows. I don't think Linux will pose a threat to MS in the desktop world
I would say that staying the same is a strong point, not a weak point. I
can take an X11 app created 10 years ago and it will compile and run fine
on current systems. In fact, I can take an X11R3 binary and it will _run_
on a current X11R6.3 server, it just needs the X11R3 libraries installed
on the client machine ( or be statically linked against them ). Compare
this to Windows, where every new version breaks apps and requires that you
upgrade just to keep running and we won't even get into the problems in
trying to port a Win3.1 app to current Win98/NT4 ( and Win2000 makes things
worse ).
Part of the problem is that MSWindows can't be compared to X11. X11 is the
equivalent of the GDI portion of MSWindows. The rest of the show is just
libraries or applications that make use of X11. This gives X11 flexibility
that MSWindows doesn't have. For example, try removing the desktop from
an MSWindows system, leaving only a single application running with no
window frame, no task bar, no desktop, and in general no way for a user to
do anything if that application is not running or doesn't provide the
capability itself. In X11 it's trivial, in MSWindows it's just about
impossible.
> I have Linux and Windows both available at the same time, yet I find myself more
> likely to browse the web in Windows. Netscape, (not limiting to Netscape) just
> doesn't work good in X, in terms of display. While most times display problem
> can be tolerable, some times it makes it unfunctional( e.g. a button is out of
> the window frame and beyond reach ).
If that's the case, you have Netscape configured incorrectly. I haven't seen
a case yet where Netscape didn't put up scroll bars if the page went beyond
the edge of the window.
--
Collin was right. Never give a virus a missile launcher.
-- Erk, Reality Check #8
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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