Linux-Development-Sys Digest #890, Volume #6 Sat, 26 Jun 99 11:14:06 EDT
Contents:
Automating Remote applications running on Unix (Stanley Mathew)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Stefaan A Eeckels)
grap utility and man page??? (M Sweger)
Re: Automating Remote applications running on Unix ("Gregory D. Horne")
File Allocation Tables (Adam Brinley Codd)
Re: Can't export '/' (David Rees)
Re: File Allocation Tables (Tristan Wibberley)
Re: Wield system, X11 glibc2 or egcs1.1.2 broken? (Kwan Lowe)
Re: Why not C++ (Tristan Wibberley)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Christopher Browne)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stanley Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Automating Remote applications running on Unix
Date: 26 Jun 1999 10:30:37 GMT
Hello Every one,
I have a linux machine C++ libraries and Java jdk installed.
I need to write a application that will connect to a remote Unix machine
which has a application running on it. For connecting to the system we use
Telnet and enter the login name which take us to the Application login
screen asking for User Id and Password and we enter the valid details it
takes you into Screen with menu options select a particular menu which
might take you to another menu screen or a screen where we enter details
and save the data. All this are now been done manually. Now here is the
problem we have to do the complete operation through commands (i.e) we have
to write a program that will use telnet to login into the system and pass
the valid user id and password and go to the correspoding screen and enter
the values and do a transaction completely. We have some idea like since
in unix all the devices are files and tty is also a file we have to capture
each file make some editing on it and run the same on the unix system.
I would like your help for writing a C or Java application that can
connect to the remote unix system and capture each screens into a file and
edit it and run it.
Expecting your help soon.
Thanks & Regards
Stanley
================== Posted via SearchLinux ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:13:37 GMT
In article <7kvqc7$iht$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Crist�bal Garc�a" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Terry Murphy escribi� en mensaje <7kp9pq$9gg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>In article <7kp52j$f94$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>Stefaan A Eeckels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>The problem is that very often a detailed and unambiguous
>>>design document is *more* difficult to realize, *and* less
>>>unambiguous than the actual code.
>>
>>Of course its less unambiguous (inevitably). My concern is, if you dive
>
> I've been follwing the thread and I'd like to express my opinion but before
> doing so I think I should be good summarize a bit. If I haven't understood
> this bad ('cos my english is not very good) there are two major positions:
> 1.- The one which defends a more formal software engineering and tells
> that linux (and linux commuity lacks of it)
> 2.- The one which tells that software engineering is a waste of time
Correction. The premisses were:
1. UNIX was not designed, because there are no requirements documents
2. It would have been better when the features that are currently felt
(by the UNIX critic) to be paramount (portability, pipes) had been
present in the first incarnation.
3. The only decent way to design a system is
requirements->spec->detailed spec->alpha->test->release
4. Open source programs are not designed because the poster could not
find a properly maintained requirements document
5. Open source programs are thus inferior to high-quality,revolutionary
programs such as IE5, unless they are re-implementations of well-known
ideas such as Linux and Apache.
6. Large companies such as DEC, IBM, Microsoft release only high
quality stuff because the always use the approach mentionned
sub 3.
(and, just for laughs)
7. VMS is a professional OS, because it's obviously been designed
by a committee ;-)
I have never said that SE is a waste of time. What I take issue with is
that these statements are either incorrect (through lack of knowledge, or
through the patently silly idea that key features of a system should
be present from day 1), simplistic (3), naive (6), or trollish (all
of them).
> In my experience as software developer, software enginnering is THE ONLY way
> to create good complex software with reasonable costs. When I say costs I'm
> speaking of programmer/designer, etc hours which must be paid.
> Every company which must develop soft must (IMHO) use a formal process to
> develop soft (and this formal process is not bad because Micro$soft is using
> it).
I fully agree. Let it be said though, that *using* a formal process does
not guarantee a decent result. As a matter of fact, the worst systems I've
seen were those where PHBs fet that having signed-off documents, progress
meetings, etc were the *only* requirements. Companies who genuflect before
ISO 900x are very prone to this.
> However there are a lot of soft developen without design (formal), and some
> of this is very good (I use vim in my work), but really is not the average
> case.
I use vim too, and it's a very good editor (if you like vi). It's also
written as a labour of love, and without concern for costs or deadlines.
It's this quite OK not to use techniques that have as goal to deliver
a system on time withing budget.
In any case, whithout a formal, hierarchical work structure, a formal,
hierarchical design and development process is just not possible.
> Another thing I've seen here is the old discussion about centralized
> configuration (aka registry) vs. "distributed" configuration. I agree that
> the centralized way is better than the distributed. Anyone could say that's
> more error-prone but I think that you can implement a centralized
> configuration with a lot of backup measures, ECC, etc in order to prevent
> sys crashes. A good API to manipulate config from programs would help also.
As with any (sub)system, you should ask whether the effort to build it
is worth the expected benefits (a cost-benefit analysis is just as
much part of the formal systems design process as a requirements
analysis, BTW). In the case we're discussing (UNIX should have a central
MS-Windows-like registry, and *all* programs ever written should be
adapted to use it), moving from UNIX' existing approach is IMHO not
worth it. You yourself indicate why:
> you can implement a centralized configuration with a lot
> of backup measures, ECC, etc in order to prevent
[{my clarification} problems in case of]
> sys crashes.
IOW, *if* you use a central registry *then* you must do it properly,
and use a good design, and a first class implementation. In addition
(and this is an even bigger impediment), you must somehow *force*
application designers to use it, which is all but impossible *unless*
the facility offers so many advantages, is so flexible, fast etc
that everyone will be convinced.
It's unlikely that such a configuration library will show up any
time soon, because (and this has been beaten to death before) a
centralised approach is limited (eg, how to have an application's
default configuration on a network).
It's not because MS does something it's bad --but conversely, it's
not because they do it that it's necessarily good either.
> A last thing, I've worked also as sysman and If I've got out all the
> software engineers out of my machines, probably I'd get fired 'cause my work
> consisted on making computers usable to the soft desing/developing staff.
>
> I love unix/linux and use it at home and work but a little bit of
> constructive criticism would help us a lot
The post that started this thread was more a troll than constructive
criticism.
Take care,
--
Stefaan
--
PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)
___________________________________________________________________
Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add,
but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exup�ry
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (M Sweger)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: grap utility and man page???
Date: 25 Jun 1999 22:06:20 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi,
I'm looking for the "grap" utility and associated man page.
Does anybody know where it may be? What s/w pkg it'd be in.
Presently, man v1.5g refers to a FILTER called this, but doesn't
have grap in it.
Thanks
--
Mike,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Gregory D. Horne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Automating Remote applications running on Unix
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:30:52 -0400
Stanley Mathew wrote:
> Hello Every one,
>
> I have a linux machine C++ libraries and Java jdk installed.
> I need to write a application that will connect to a remote Unix machine
> which has a application running on it. For connecting to the system we use
> Telnet and enter the login name which take us to the Application login
> screen asking for User Id and Password and we enter the valid details it
> takes you into Screen with menu options select a particular menu which
> might take you to another menu screen or a screen where we enter details
> and save the data. All this are now been done manually. Now here is the
> problem we have to do the complete operation through commands (i.e) we have
> to write a program that will use telnet to login into the system and pass
> the valid user id and password and go to the correspoding screen and enter
> the values and do a transaction completely. We have some idea like since
> in unix all the devices are files and tty is also a file we have to capture
> each file make some editing on it and run the same on the unix system.
>
> I would like your help for writing a C or Java application that can
> connect to the remote unix system and capture each screens into a file and
> edit it and run it.
>
Perhaps you should consider developing a true client-server application which
by definition is suited for the environment you have described. The server
can reside on one machine while the client(s) can reside on other machines.
As long as the client knows how to reach the server, then the transactions can
be executed. If you require assistance developing a Java-based client-server
application let me know.
Regards,
Gregory D. Horne
Information Technology Architect
Internetworking Engineer
The Network Laboratorium (NetLab)
>
> Expecting your help soon.
>
> Thanks & Regards
> Stanley
>
> ------------------ Posted via SearchLinux ------------------
> http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:51:14 +0100
From: Adam Brinley Codd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: File Allocation Tables
Hi,
I've been looking everywhere for information on File Allocation Tables,
and I finally found some information on my MSDN Libary CD, but I think
there is a mistake, and this is the only newsgroup I can find which
might help me, so desipte the info being MS, please help...
What I'm trying to do is create an undelete program for my Psion 3c. The
information I found (mk:@ivt:nt40res/D15/S39DB.HTM if anyone has the CD
and want's to look it up) says
"Folders have a 32-byte entry for each file and folder contained in the
folder. The entry includes the following information:"
It then lists the information and how many bits each one takes up.
However, it adds up to 27 bytes, not 32.
It says the "Create time" field is 24 bits but the "Last modified time"
is only 16. It says all the dates are 16 bits, and the "Starting cluster
number in the file allocation table" is 16 bits (wouldn't this vary
depending on if it was FAT12 (as on my Psion) or 16 or 32?
Anyway, this is an example of the 32 bits used to store data on a 5000
byte file on my Psion:
46 49 4C 45 33 20 20 20 44 41 54 20 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 46 8C D7 26 16 00 88 13 00 00
I've identified the last 4 bytes as the file size, and I assume the time
fields are seconds since sometime in 1970 (AFAIK it's Y2.36K complient)
but how is the date worked out, and does it take up 16 bits?
Thanks very much for any help :-)
Adam.
btw> does anyone know a *good* source of info on FATs? I've looked at
the LDP but can't find anything. I've searched my linux cd but can't
find much.
------------------------------
From: David Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't export '/'
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:57:13 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>>>> "David" == David Yeung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Not security. But do you have other entries? knfsd is more picky
> than the old user-mode nfsd. It won't let you export both a directory
> and a subdirectory of that.
>
I've been wondering about the same thing. Is there a workaround to
this? It's really a PITA. If I want to export only some sub directory
to a client, but the whole filesystem to another, I can't do it!
-Dave
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Tristan Wibberley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: File Allocation Tables
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:50:00 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Adam Brinley Codd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been looking everywhere for information on File Allocation Tables,
> and I finally found some information on my MSDN Libary CD, but I think
> there is a mistake, and this is the only newsgroup I can find which
> might help me, so desipte the info being MS, please help...
>
> btw> does anyone know a *good* source of info on FATs? I've looked at
> the LDP but can't find anything. I've searched my linux cd but can't
> find much.
You'll find some format info in the Documentation directory of the
kernel source. The guy who wrote the FAT filesystem support has
documented it some.
It's interesting that to obtain documentation on Microsofts Operating
Systems and file systems you have to come to Linux people for help.
--
Tristan Wibberley Linux is a registered trademark
of Linus Torvalds.
------------------------------
From: Kwan Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Wield system, X11 glibc2 or egcs1.1.2 broken?
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:38:46 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Some clues I think are useful:
> (1) gcc draw.cxx -lX11 doesn't work, I should
> gcc -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXext -lX11 draw.cxx.
> (2) I must put /usr/X11R6/lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> otherwise, a.out won't run.
It looks like you're missing a symbolic link from /usr/X11 to
usr/X11R6. It could also be a path error; you might want to check that
your path, ld.so.conf, etc..
------------------------------
From: Tristan Wibberley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:05:20 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom Leete wrote:
>
> John E. Davis wrote in message ...
> >On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:53:08 +1200, Bruce Hoult <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >> some_function(&foo);
> >>
> >>What will be foo's value after the call to some_function? Will it be
> >>altered? In C he has no way of knowing because C programmers often pass
> >>structs by reference even when they don't intend to change them.
> >
> >At least the syntax indicates whether or not foo could be altered.
> >The fact remains that one cannot look at
> >
> > some_function (x)
> >
> >in C++ and be sure that x was not modified, whereas in C you know that
> >the local variable x will not be affected. And yes, like many people,
> >I use an editor that supports tags. When reading C++ code, I do have
> >to look up every such function to see whether or not something like x
> >could be modified by the function. With C, knowing instantly that x
> >could not be modified is a big help to understanding code fragments.
> >
> >--John
>
> This is FUD. If your compiler really acts like that, get a new compiler.
I think you misundstood his point.
If I'm using a C library, my program might have to say:
some_function( &x );
so, when debugging, I know right there that I can't assume x won't be
altered. The same thing in C++ would be:
some_function( x );
but I don't know whether I'm passing by value or by reference or const
by reference. I have to go and find the header, then look through it to
find the prototype for that function. It would be useful if there were a
syntax difference.
It's only a development time problem of course, not a serious design
flaw.
--
Tristan Wibberley Linux is a registered trademark
of Linus Torvalds.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:25:02 GMT
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:33:55 +0200, Paolo Torelli
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry Murphy wrote:
>> does not at all follow the form of ESR's software development model.
>Sorry about my question, but what is ESR? (I'm not used to US abbreviations)
Not unlike RMS, it represents the initials of a person.
Namely Eric S. Raymond.
See: <http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/> which is his home page.
--
"I'm thinking of having my whole body surgically removed."
-- Lintilla
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:25:16 GMT
On 24 Jun 1999 21:16:30 -0400, Frank Sweetser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels) writes:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Vladimir Z. Nuri) writes:
>> >
>> > another example: the end user wants to increase the space
>> > for their linux partition and decrease space on their windows
>> > partition. without reformatting. how many zillions of hours
>> > have been spent in this operation by end users? only because
>> > programmers haven't written the code to move around partitions
>> > on a hard drive? a clear cut case where programmer convienience
>> > was chosen at huge sacrifice to user convenience.
>> This is typical for the PC architecture. Most modern UNIX systems
>> do have Logical Volume Managers, which basically allow you
>> to shrink and expand a partition as required (at the cost of
>> a layer of indirection between the file system and the disk).
>>
>> Can't have it on PCs for compatibility's sake, though.
>
>not true. work is being done even as we speak on a generic (read: non arch
>specific) LVM system for linux.
Yes, there is LVM work going on.
Does it involve dynamic resizing *of partitions?*
I expect not, as that would break compatibility with the existing
partitioning schemes, which assume that partitions are of fixed size
once they're set.
In the contexts that people have traditionally used LVM (where you may
combine it with RAID, and use it to manage arrays of disks), this is
fine.
But in the context of having a multi-boot home box that might have a few
gigs of Linux and a few gigs of WinDoze, this doesn't provide equivalent
functionality to (say) Partition Magic.
Frankly, I suspect that the Right Answer is to blow off the issue and
allow Partition Magic to represent the support for that "niche" of
people that prefer to spend their nights redesigning the allocation of
disk space between Linux and WinTel.
--
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the
Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." -- Carl Sagan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
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