Linux-Development-Sys Digest #906, Volume #6 Tue, 29 Jun 99 04:13:56 EDT
Contents:
Re: You can now use Winmodems in Linux!!!!!!! (Sudip Sarbajna)
Question (Duane Smith)
Re: Proposal For New Windowing software (Christopher Browne)
Re: Why not C++ (Christopher Browne)
Re: Mac-emulation on Linux? ("Anthony D. Saxton")
Re: Why not C++ (Isaac)
Re: make xconfig errors (RedHat 5.1) (Allin Cottrell)
Re: sources for the empeg car player? (Isaac)
Re: Where is the compose key? (Bernd Strieder)
Re: /proc/ksyms on SMP machines (David J. MacKenzie)
kdm and xdm affecting serial ports ("A. J. (Tony) Schiavone")
Re: help me please, URGENT (Jay Thorne)
Re: Why not C++ (Nathan Myers)
Re: vesafb for S3 868? (Olav Woelfelschneider)
RE: Game/Casino Server... ("Alejandro Nestor Vargas")
Re: Why not C++ (Matt Austern)
SCSI Probing? (Black Visions)
Re: NT kernel guy playing with Linux (Philipp Thomas)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Stephan Houben)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sudip Sarbajna)
Subject: Re: You can now use Winmodems in Linux!!!!!!!
Date: 29 Jun 1999 01:59:56 GMT
Well, how do I make sure that the one in my machine is not winmodem?
Could you suggest any way to test it from Linux?
Thanks
Sudip
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Duane Smith)
Subject: Question
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:15:47 GMT
Does anyone know where to find the configuration file(s) for the Start
menu in the default window manager for RedHat Linux
I just installed XFCE and I want to add things like the Network
Configurator to my menu but I can't find them.
Are there config files for the menu that point to the binaries?
Thanks, Bill J.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Proposal For New Windowing software
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:43:55 GMT
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:40:08 -0400, Matthew Carl Schumaker
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>During the past couple weeks I've seen many people express their opinions
>on both Xwindows and C++. The project that I'm proposing is one that I
>not only want seen done but is also one that I want to participate in.
>
>The proposal is for a new Windowing System that is based on the premise of
>a 3D UI. I know other people are interested in this sort of program as
>well as a couple private ventures, but to the best of my knowledge there
>is no Open Source project of this type.
Have you looked at Berlin? It is seeking to build a GUI system using
CORBA, GGI, and OpenGL/Mesa.
It *looks* like they're primarily working on the 2D aspects of it;
presumably they figure it makes sense to have that somewhat working
first.
--
"What you end up with, after running an operating system concept
through these many marketing coffee filters, is something not unlike
plain hot water." -- Matt Welsh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/xbloat.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:46:21 GMT
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:43:39 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Look at the above, and what I quoted from Nathan Myers:
>
> "[...]Take for example Egcs. C and C++, same code generator,
> same optimizer."
>
>My point was that C++ output is still bigger than C, _for the exact same
>source code_, using the same code generator and optimizer.
...Which basically goes to say that the C++ implementation is not as
*mature* as the C implementation.
They may both share the same peephole optimizer; they may both share the
same RTL code generators.
But they manifestly *do not* share the same parse tree generator.
(That's kind of the point of them being separate compiler front ends.)
It is quite evident that the front ends generate code differently, and
this nicely explains the differences in behaviour.
It is manifestly true that G++ FE != GCC FE, and it is pretty evident
that the GCC FE is *vastly* more mature. Which strikes me as obvious; I
was using GCC (ANSI C) ten years ago, and considered it quite stable,
when G++ was not even worth considering.
All of this being said, it is possible for the code generator for C++
(particularly for EGCS) to persistently underperform the C code
generator, due to the following two factors:
a) They are separate.
b) C++ is a more complex language, thereby making it more difficult to
write a generator producing code that is both correct and efficient.
Don't misread that as a claim that the complexity makes it inherently
*impossible* to make a C++ implementation more efficient; it merely
indicates that it is a difficult task.
--
"I think it would be great if MS would make VB the favoured language
for Palm PC's. Then they'd have a shaky, bloated, slow OS running the
shaky, bloated, slow macro-apps." -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/langc.html>
------------------------------
From: "Anthony D. Saxton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.powerpc
Subject: Re: Mac-emulation on Linux?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 03:44:48 GMT
Matt Denton wrote:
> In article <7gjd3s$cdo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "FM"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > 2. Buy a Macintosh and dual boot with Linux/MacOS
>
> This is probably the best option - LinuxPPC is pretty solid, MKlinux
> (easier to install?) is a bit sluggish as it runs on top of a Mach
> microkernel instead of natively but is a decent port of Linux nonetheless.
>
> Me, I'm looking forward to Sheepshaver (http://www.sheepshaver.com) MacOS
> VM for Linux to see how that works...
>
> --
> Matt Denton
> San Francisco, USA
SheepShaver's fine for those of us privilidged few using the PowerPC version
of linux. It won't help anyone that doesn't have a PREP, BeBox or PowerMac
though.
Tony
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 29 Jun 1999 03:06:36 GMT
On 28 Jun 1999 18:34:13 -0700, Nathan Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Isaac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Curiously, the list above almost matches the chronology of the
>introduction of features, starting from C with Classes.
>As such, it's suspect.
>
I don't understand why this makes it suspect, but in any event
the list was my personal preference. Perhaps your list is better
but I don't think ALMOST matching some other list makes mine
suspect.
>Those most expert in C++ would list importance of features in
>an order more like this:
>
> Encapsulation (:=: Classes)
> Templates
> STL (and similar libraries)
> Exception handling
> Polymorphism (:=: inheritance)
> Namespaces
> Operator overloading
>
>Some people -- notably, the author of STL -- have no use for classes
>(inheriting or otherwise), and promote templates above all.
>
I'd consider this opinion valid, but if your goal is object oriented
programming, then why wouldn't a list which emphasizes those aspects
be reasonable?
I have no real problem with the higher position of templates on
the list. I suspect this would vary with the type of programming
being done, and I've only a couple or three years of experience using
C++. I find that using the containers in the STL encourages use of
polymorphism in my designs. I use that paradigm far more than
I write my own templates. Perhaps over time I'll write more
templates. My list is probably pretty close to the order of
presentation in my learning material which probably does make
the list suspect : }. On the other hand a lot of people found
g++ at least useful with buggy template instantiation, no STL,
and no namespaces.
>
>Reference arguments can prevent errors, because there is no such thing
>as a null reference. Anything that eliminates a likely error should
>not be dismissed lightly.
>
I agree. I think references have some code maintenance baggage attached,
but I'll agree that they can also be a plus in this area. The
negative baggage is why references are lower on my list.
>Most experts acknowledge that use of operator overloading is best
>restricted, in most programs, to operator= and construction/conversion.
>However, those overloads are extremely important. Some libraries make
>exemplary use of operators [], (), *, and ->. The rest may may be
>questioned, but where do you draw the line?
Agreed. I draw it pretty much where you do, but I note operator
overloading didn't make the expert's top five either. If I
were writing a matrix library or a complex number handling
package, I might have a more liberal opinion.
Isaac
------------------------------
From: Allin Cottrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: make xconfig errors (RedHat 5.1)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:38:23 -0400
Jim Fischer wrote:
>
> I get the following output when I execute "make xconfig" from a root command
> prompt on a Redhat 5.1 system (with X-Windows running):
>
> [root@R100B1 linux]# make xconfig
> rm -f include/asm
> ( cd include ; ln -sf asm-i386 asm)
> make -C scripts kconfig.tk
> make -C /usr/local/src/linux-2.0.35-1/linux/drivers/sound mkscript
> Compiling Sound Driver v 3.5.5-beta1 for Linux
> rm -f configure
> gcc -I/usr/local/src/linux-2.0.35-1/linux/include -o configure configure.c
> ./configure script > Config.in
> cat lowlevel/Config.tmpl >> Config.in
> ./configure fixedlocal > local.h
> ./configure fixeddefines > .defines
>
> ./tkparse < ../arch/i386/config.in > kconfig.tmp
> make[1]: *** [kconfig.tk] Error 139
> make: *** [xconfig] Error 2
> [root@R100B1 linux]#
>
> Any ideas as to what might be causing this error?
RedHat 5.1 is pretty thoroughly broken. Update to 6.0, or
at least to 5.2.
--
Allin Cottrell
Department of Economics
Wake Forest University, NC
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac)
Subject: Re: sources for the empeg car player?
Date: 29 Jun 1999 02:06:19 GMT
On 28 Jun 1999 18:32:13 -0400, Michael Hirsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Peter Gavin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> I've emailed them, asking where I could get it.. I'll post an update
>> when (if) he emails me back.
>
>There are a bunch of these embedded system type boxes. empeg, netgem,
>and TeeVO (or however it's spelled) to name three. I can't find
>sources for any of the and I haven't gotten responses to my email,
>yet.
>
I assume that you have bought one of the devices. If you haven't
purchased or been given a binary, you are not owed the sources.
They don't have to give sources to anyone who asks, just to
those they've sold binaries to.
Isaac
------------------------------
From: Bernd Strieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where is the compose key?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:58:56 +0200
Hi,
thanks to all. I've seen the stuff and I found my error, the keymap that
was loaded overwrote the Compose binding with something else. This
became clear when I saw the default.
Bye,
Bernd Strieder
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David J. MacKenzie)
Subject: Re: /proc/ksyms on SMP machines
Date: 28 Jun 1999 13:05:24 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Some SMP machines with RH 6.0 attach 'Rsmp_<checksum>' while others
> attach just 'R<checksum>' to the symbols in /proc/ksyms. Both machines
> are compiled with SMP option in the kernel set to 'Y'.
>
> Could somebody please tell me how and when does 'smp' get attached to
> the symbols.
I wish my problem were that simple. I can't get kernel modules to
work with SMP turned on using RH6. The modules get unresolved
SMP-related symbols when it tries to load them (with modprobe).
Red Hat says it's not an installation problem so they won't help.
Both the kernel and the modules were compiled with SMP=1 from a clean
source tree. It looks like RH6 only supports SMP with a monolithic
kernel, which means you can't use an ISA PnP sound card.
root@vorpal 1 $ modprobe sound
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22/misc/sound.o: unresolved symbol __global_cli
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22/misc/sound.o: unresolved symbol __global_save_flags
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22/misc/sound.o: unresolved symbol __global_restore_flags
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22/misc/sound.o: unresolved symbol __global_sti
pre-install /lib/modules/2.2.5-22/misc/sound.o failed
sound: No such file or directory
sound: No such file or directory
root@vorpal 2 $ cat /etc/conf.modules
alias scsi_hostadapter 53c7,8xx
alias eth0 tulip
alias parport_lowlevel parport_pc
pre-install pcmcia_core /etc/rc.d/init.d/pcmcia start
alias sound sb
pre-install sound insmod sound dmabuf=1
alias midi opl3
options opl3 io=0x388
options sb io=0x220 irq=5 dma=1 dma16=5 mpu_io=0x330
------------------------------
From: "A. J. (Tony) Schiavone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: kdm and xdm affecting serial ports
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:18:35 -0500
Hi all,
I have written a program to control an infrared remote control through the
serial port. The program works fine and I have both command line and CGI
(web page) based control. However, when I run either kdm or xdm the program
randomly sends out commands to the last device that was selected (i.e., if
VCR was the last device selected it will turn it on and off repeatedly). Is
there something in kdm and xdm or display managers in general that send data
out the serial port? If so, is there a way to shut this behavior off?
Thanks for any replies,
- Tony -
------------------------------
From: Jay Thorne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: help me please, URGENT
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 05:02:54 GMT
Thierry BUCCO wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> in the top of my program, i redirect stdout & stderr in a file, like this :
>
> stdout_file = freopen("/root/stdout.txt","a",stdout)
> stdout_file = freopen("/root/stdout.txt","a",stderr)
Is there a reason why you dont just do
./program 2>&1 >>/root/stdout.txt
and let good old unix shell output redirection do it for you?
--
Jay Thorne The Net Result System Services [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://net.result.com
Zoom 505 Effect page http://net.result.com/~jay
Zoom 5xx series Patch Database: http://net.result.com/~jay/db.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 27 Jun 1999 16:08:19 -0700
John E. Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nathan Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>No. _None_ of the interesting aspects of C++ templates can be emulated
>>with the preprocessor. See http://oonumerics.org/blitz/index.html .
>
>It depends on what you call interesting. Consider vecmin.cc from
>blitz which computes the minimum element of a vector. In C, I can
>define a vector type (I am not claiming that any of this is pretty):
> [code snipped]
This example appears essentially equivalent to the technique used in
the pre-template header, generic.h, that came with Cfront.
CPP macros cannot do type deduction or recursion, which is what
makes templates interestingly useful in C++, and what made it
possible (and useful) to write the Blitz++ library.
--
Nathan Myers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cantrip.org/
------------------------------
From: Olav Woelfelschneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: vesafb for S3 868?
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:59:59 +0200
Roope Anttinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
RA> zcat patch-s3lfb-2.2.9.gz | patch -p0
..
I wonder if I did hose it during download. I found the patch to be broken.
Line breaks where there shouldn't be, tabs converted to spaces. Things that
made the patch unusable. It looks as if someone copied it from the screen
with cut and paste (I didn't).
I wound up patching every chunk by hand. Works like a charm now.
--
Olav "Mac" W�lfelschneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP fingerprint = 06 5F 66 B3 2A AD 7D 2D B7 19 67 3C 95 A7 9D AF
AIRPORT: A place where people hurry up and wait.
------------------------------
From: "Alejandro Nestor Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.linux.isp,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: RE: Game/Casino Server...
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:36:21 -0300
> BlackJack and Roulette are the first games to create. The Internet Server
is
> a RedHat 5.1 Server with Apache and PHP running. Are there such servers
You does not need to connect the client to an web server, but it may be
better to use web-style requests in order to allow to acces who is throug a
firewall.
------------------------------
From: Matt Austern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Why not C++
Date: 28 Jun 1999 23:10:57 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac) writes:
> On 28 Jun 1999 18:34:13 -0700, Nathan Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Isaac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Curiously, the list above almost matches the chronology of the
> >introduction of features, starting from C with Classes.
> >As such, it's suspect.
> >
>
> I don't understand why this makes it suspect, but in any event
> the list was my personal preference. Perhaps your list is better
> but I don't think ALMOST matching some other list makes mine
> suspect.
"Suspect" doesn't mean "wrong". It's suspect because it suggests that
this list (and I'm sure Nathan doesn't mean to pick on you
personally!) is heavily influenced by which features happen to be most
familiar to you. Naturally, everyone is going to see more uses for a
feature they've been using for ten years than for one they first tried
a few months ago. Nobody really has a completely balanced perspective
here.
> >Some people -- notably, the author of STL -- have no use for classes
> >(inheriting or otherwise), and promote templates above all.
> >
> I'd consider this opinion valid, but if your goal is object oriented
> programming, then why wouldn't a list which emphasizes those aspects
> be reasonable?
Alex's goal isn't object oriented programming.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Black Visions)
Subject: SCSI Probing?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 06:33:40 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does anyone know if their is a way to tell if SCSI probing is enabled in the
kernel so I can test for it when my program runs. Since my program requires
it. I know that if the development package is installed it will be in the
config file for the kernel make but not all systems will have that package
installed. Is their some export value or kernel vale I could query to find
this out?
Thanks for you help.
BV
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philipp Thomas)
Subject: Re: NT kernel guy playing with Linux
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:33:19 GMT
On 25 Jun 1999 12:49:41 +0200, John Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Specially the streams based TCP/IP stacks.
>
>Nope. Untrue. FUD.
Not quite :) It's FUD as a global statement and I should have at least
used an AFAIK when I wrote that. For that part I declare myself guilty
and apologize.
On behalf of TCP/IP, I *am* right. Here's the quote from Larry McVoy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, a name that should be familiar to you. And this is
definitely no FUD:
STREAMS is an elegant modem for handling tty line disciplines, which
is why it was developed. But it falls apart for high performance
stuff.
Here are some issues:
- it wants to queue. Each layer has a put and putnext procedure and
the way things are done is that the data is enqueued/dequeued even
when there is nothing on the downstream/upstream queue. So this
results in
write()
put it on the stream head queue
return from system call
let's go run the streams queues
look here's something on the stream head
put it on the next module down
return
let's go run the streams
look here's something in the TCP module
etc. Completely busted model, it should push through and out the
door if there is no contention for the device.
- the module layers are great when you aren't multiplexed. IP is
multiplexed under TCP, UDP, etc. And there are side channels like
ARP and ICMP that don't fit well.
- the layering hurts performance. It really does. I'd like 10 usec
round trip ping pongs. Forget about it.
Philipp
--
You have moved your mouse. Windows must be rebooted for the
changes to take effect.
------------------------------
From: Stephan Houben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: 29 Jun 1999 09:37:26 +0200
Philip Boucherat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My piano tuner is blind and he recently showed me his computer which has
> got voice recognition, voice synthesis etc. It reads text (either typed
> in typed or scanned in and OCR'ed), it describes every element of the
> screen current screen and so on. This is more like an AUI than a GUI
> although I suppose the whole aim is for help him to visualise a GUI in
> some way. Anyway sound certainly is a very large part of the GUI here.
This is actually a very good reason *not* to put sound in the X server.
Obviously, your piano tuner doesn't need X. But if sound was in the
X server, he would be required to use it nonetheless; perhaps even buy
a quite expensive video cards because applications think they need
a truecolor visual or something. If sound is a separate component,
you can use it without having to use any X things.
Greetings,
Stephan
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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