Linux-Development-Sys Digest #933, Volume #6 Mon, 5 Jul 99 05:14:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: usleep() (Fredrik Roubert)
Re: Can Linux Boot and Run without a BIOS? (Joe Pfeiffer)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Josh Stern)
Re: Max threads, processes, file descriptors, etc ... (Marc Mutz)
Re: kernel questions (Marc Mutz)
Re: update_vm_cache in 2.3.9 (Marc Mutz)
Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows (Kaz Kylheku)
Building IP packets with libnet (Lance Spitzner)
Re: usleep() (Peter Pointner)
Re: Can Linux Boot and Run without a BIOS? (Byron A Jeff)
Callbacks ("overflow")
Re: update_vm_cache in 2.3.9 (N1ho)
Re: Update: Re: 2.2.9 Hangs after a few hours of uptime (Daniel R. Rhodes)
dummy structure (J.C Chuang)
Re: C++ templates: More than Turing Complete? (Davin McCall)
Re: CLONE_PID flag (James Cownie)
Re: Callbacks (Emile van bergen)
Re: binutils compile error (Klaus Schneider)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fredrik Roubert)
Subject: Re: usleep()
Date: 4 Jul 1999 16:04:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Daniel R. Grayson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Have you ever wished usleep() were accurate? It's possible, because
>>> select() with timeout is accurate.
>>
>> So use select() with timeout (and no fd's).
>
> Sure, I've done that already, but it was pretty annoying, and it might
> be a good idea to save other programmers the trouble of having to figure
> that out.
The Solaris manpage for usleep() has a reference to select(). That might
be a good idea for the Linux manpage as well.
H�lsningar // Fredrik Roubert
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] � +46 46 188127
[EMAIL PROTECTED] � M�llev�ngsv�gen 6c
http://www.efd.lth.se/~d95fr/ � SE-222 40 Lund
------------------------------
From: Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can Linux Boot and Run without a BIOS?
Date: 04 Jul 1999 09:52:37 -0600
Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Jim Robertson wrote:
> ...
> > However, I'm pretty sure that once Linux is running, it does not depend
> > on the BIOS at all. Of course, the root file system must reside on a
> > device whose driver is not in a module, but compiled into the kernel.
>
> Nope, it can be a module, and for many people it is.
How do you load the module before you have a driver that can read the
root file system? The config help (for 2.2.5) specifies
``Do not
compile this driver as a module if your root filesystem (the one
containing the directory /) is located on an IDE device.''
for CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE, and makes similar comments about SCSI.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Josh Stern)
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:16:23 GMT
Adam JBC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>-Dosn't rely on screen size in any way (e.g. dialog boxes change size (they
>can be tiny in Windoze with a large moniter/high resolution))
>-Dosn't make a funny sound every time the mouse moves (can I stop this?)
>-Can use multiple moniters (like Win98)
>-Something like in Star Trek (seriously), their UI seems to be very
>efficient, albeit full of meaningless numbers also good graphics
>-I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas, but I think KDE at least is
>crap, but it's all I have, before I can learn Linux and change it :-) I
>espically hate the "Where do you want to go tomorrow", it's soooo tacky.
To the extent that I can understand what you are talking about, you
can do all of those things in X.
- Josh
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:59:55 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Max threads, processes, file descriptors, etc ...
Gerald Gutierrez wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I remember some time back there was a discussion regarding how to
> change the maximum user & system wide number of threads, processes and
> file descriptors, amongst other things.
>
> Does anyone know where I might be able to find such information?
>
Check include/limits.h or such (grep for NR_OPEN in include and
subdirs).
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS), 0x31748570 (DH)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:57:59 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: kernel questions
To answer the other questions.
Marty Bowers wrote:
>
> 2.) Is it worth it to go from 2.2.6 to 2.2.10?
>
No. Use 2.2.7 and then 2.2.11, when it comes out and the dubious hangs
people experience since 2.2.8 is fixed.
> 3.) Is there anything that can go wrong when upgrading a kernel?
>
When you stick to the .config you had before, it shouldn't. I for myself
never had any problems.
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS), 0x31748570 (DH)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 16:54:27 +0200
From: Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: update_vm_cache in 2.3.9
Juergen Koslowski wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> In version 2.3.9 the file linux/fs/fat/file.c still contains a reference
> to "update_vm_cache", which seems to have been eliminated from all
> other places and consequently leads to compilation failure.
>
Read www.kernelnotes.org prior to complaining about errors in the
kernels, esp. in dev. ones.
Marc
--
Marc Mutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marc.mutz.com/
University of Bielefeld, Dep. of Mathematics / Dep. of Physics
PGP-keyID's: 0xd46ce9ab (RSA), 0x7ae55b9e (DSS), 0x31748570 (DH)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Why we are still holding on to X Windows
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:50:16 GMT
On 4 Jul 1999 10:37:28 -0100, Adam JBC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Provide a coherent and reasonably-complete design specification, and
>> that would be enough to establish, at least in general terms, whether
>> the would-be replacement actually "innovates" over what X offers.
>
>How about an interface which meets the following criteria:
>
>-Dosn't rely on screen size in any way (e.g. dialog boxes change size (they
>can be tiny in Windoze with a large moniter/high resolution))
Whether or not windows can be resized is up to the X application. Dialog boxes
that can't resize are simply the result of lazy application programming. The X
Window system doesn't even have a concept of a dialog box. A dialog box in X is
just another window, which could in principle be resizeable.
>-Dosn't make a funny sound every time the mouse moves (can I stop this?)
This an interference problem between your sound card and other components of
your system, such as your video card or monitor. Your sound card's DAC
and amplifier isn't sufficiently shielded.
>-Can use multiple moniters (like Win98)
X has been able to support multi-headed displays for eons. The capability
depends on the X server. The possiblity for multi-headed displays is the
reason that X has the :X.Y naming convention for identifying displays.
>-Something like in Star Trek (seriously), their UI seems to be very
>efficient, albeit full of meaningless numbers also good graphics
The UI shown in science fiction movies isn't functional. It is intended to be
eye candy to impress people like yourself.
------------------------------
From: Lance Spitzner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Building IP packets with libnet
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:43:41 -0500
Does anyone have some beginner examples of building
IP packets with libnet? I'm looking to build TCP,
UDP, and ICMP packets with various flags, types, and
codes. As I am new at this, any examples would be
greatly appreciated. The simpler, the better.
Thanks!
Lance Spitzner
http://www.enteract.com/~lspitz
Internetworking & Security Engineer
Dimension Enterprises Inc
------------------------------
From: Peter Pointner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: usleep()
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:37:32 GMT
Daniel R. Grayson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks for the precise explanation about how usleep() works.
> Have you ever wished usleep() were accurate? It's possible, because select()
> with timeout is accurate.
Yes, I wished. But I doubt select() is better. Did you test that and how
accurate is it? The reason I doubt it is that I can't see how it might be
done.
Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Can Linux Boot and Run without a BIOS?
Date: 4 Jul 1999 16:50:18 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
-
-> Jim Robertson wrote:
-> ...
-> > However, I'm pretty sure that once Linux is running, it does not depend
-> > on the BIOS at all. Of course, the root file system must reside on a
-> > device whose driver is not in a module, but compiled into the kernel.
->
-> Nope, it can be a module, and for many people it is.
-
-How do you load the module before you have a driver that can read the
-root file system? The config help (for 2.2.5) specifies
-
-``Do not
-compile this driver as a module if your root filesystem (the one
-containing the directory /) is located on an IDE device.''
-
-for CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE, and makes similar comments about SCSI.
By using a initial Ramdisk to load the initiall root filesystem, run insmod
to load the appropriate module, then switch to the real filesystem.
I use this exact process to run Linux out of a single file in a DOS/Windows
FAT filesystem without using UMSDOS, which under a FAT 16 FS sucks up an
enormous amount of wated space due to bad clustering. I create a single file
for the filesystem, attach it to a loopback device, format and mount the
loopback device, and install Linux into it. Using loadlin to boot the kernel
and a initial ramdisk, I mount the DOS filesys, load the loop driver, reattach
the file to the loop device, and make that loop device the real root filesystem
after which everything proceeds as normal. Save space, doesn't require
repartitioning, and in fact the IDE, SCSI, and all the filesystems could be
loaded as modules. I don't do it out of simple convenience.
BAJ
------------------------------
From: "overflow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Callbacks
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:01:09 +0200
I want to do a callback to real mode in order to talk to the BIOS. Does
anybody know how to do it in Linux?
Jaime Medrano
Eurielec Linux
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (N1ho)
Subject: Re: update_vm_cache in 2.3.9
Date: 05 Jul 1999 02:13:03 GMT
Marc Mutz said:
>>> Read www.kernelnotes.org prior to >>> complaining about errors in the
>>> kernels, esp. in dev. ones.
To be more specific,
http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/docs/kernel-newsflash.html
states rather bluntly for 2.3.9:
"There has been a major redesign of the pagecache. This has broken some
filesystems (i.e. nfs, hpfs,
vfat). Don't compile these for now. In addition, there may still be lingering
problems with all
filesystems. Don't use this kernel if your data is precious."
This would appear to be rather more urgent than the usual warnings about
development kernels...
(If the "update_vm_cache" function has been depracated, why is it still defined
in <linux/pagemap.h> ? Hmm....)
Well, guess I'll just wait for 2.3.10...
=====BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK=====
GCS/CC d+ s:+>: a+ C+++ UO++$L++>$ P L+++ E- W+ N++ K? w--- !O M? V--
PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP- t++ 5 X+ R* tv b++ DI+++ D? G e++ h+ r-- y--
=====END GEEK CODE BLOCK=====
Spam shared with [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Daniel R. Rhodes)
Subject: Re: Update: Re: 2.2.9 Hangs after a few hours of uptime
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 02:21:23 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I had this problem with an earlier kernel, I had to turn busmastering
off with the NIC.
tnx, drr
In an earlier episode, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Ioannidis) said:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>John Ioannidis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (that's me!) wrote:
>>I have 2.2.9 running on Pentium II machines (Tyan S1692DL motherboard,
>>256M of ECC SDRAM, 333MHz P-II (id 0x650, stepping 0), 2940UW, generic
>>video card, no IDE devices present), and after a few hours of uptime
>>they lock up. No crashes, no diagnostics on the console; they don't
>>respond to ctl-alt-del, or to sysreq chords; the only thing that
>>brings them back is a hard reset. I don't recall seeing this behavior
>>in 2.2.5, so something must have gone wrong with 2.2.9. Is anyone
>>else experiencing this?
>>
>
>I configured a serial console, and here is the last (only) console
>message right before the system crashed:
>
>eth0: Too much work in interrupt, status e081. Temporarily disabling
>functions (7f7e).
>
>The ethernet card is a 3Com 3C905-B.
>
>/ji
>
--
The second nicest guy on the internet
Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org
Or e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.C Chuang)
Subject: dummy structure
Date: 5 Jul 1999 01:52:58 GMT
Hi, All
In Kernel source codes, there are several dummy structures such
as __xchg_dummy in xchg() in <asm/system.h>. I'm wondering what this
dummy structure is used for. Can anyone give me a hint ??
Best Regards,
J.C. Chuang
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Davin McCall)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: C++ templates: More than Turing Complete?
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 05:21:23 GMT
On 4 Jul 1999 02:56:21 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathan Myers)
wrote:
>>So you are saying that the choice of programming language is an
>>engineering issue, not a computer science issue?
>
>Of course. Science has nothing to say about construction methods.
Alright, I'll grant that.
>>But why C++ code? The same principles found in the C++ language are
>>applied in other languages also.
>
>Some are. Many aren't. You don't know which ones before you even start.
True - but that won't stop you from learning them if you study them.
For instance, studying Javascript would reveal some principles that
are also used in the C++ language.
I don't really want to go in to the evolution of languages, but how do
you think C++ came into existence? Most of the principles probably
came from other programming languages. Others would have come from
attempts to get around problems with other languages. Perhaps C++ has
changed over time, with further enhancements/modifications, in order
to address other shortcomings. My point, though, is that the other
languages had influence and that C++ has borrowed some ideas from
them, *and also* that other ideas (or 'principles' if you like) in
C++ came from study of other languages problems as well, perhaps with
a bit of imagination thrown in... What if C++ didn't exist? Surely, an
equally good language (using the same principles) could be invented to
take its place. Suppose that someone who didn't know about C++
invented such a language. Do you think that person would still need to
study the C++ language in order to understand its principles?
>You are starting from the assumption that you already know all
>the important principles. If you actually want to learn anything,
>you must begin by assuming you don't know everything yet.
I said nothing to indicate any such assumption.
>>I disagree. My reasons have been stated. You are saying something
>>analogous to this:
>>
>> "if you want to know how a fuel injected engine works [-> the
>>principles behind it], you must study the engine in car {X}. Although
>>cars {Y} and {Z} have similar engines, studying them will not reveal
>>*any* of the principles used to design the engine of car {X}."
>
>If you need an analogy, how about:
>"What are you looking for?"
>"My keys. I dropped them over there".
>"Why are you looking here?"
>"The light's better here."
Well there, that's your own analogy - and if it's a good one, it
clearly demonstrates a logical flaw in your argument. (Personally I
can't see where you got this analogy from).
>If you want to know why car {X} wins races, studying {Y} and {Z}
>(which don't) is no substitute for a very careful study of {X}.
But why would I want to know why C++ is so popular/good? The issue
that you brought up was that it wasn't possible to understand the
principles of C++ without studying C++. Perhaps you are right if by
"understanding the principles of C++" you mean "knowing what the
principles of C++ are, as well as understanding them" instead of
"understanding the principles of C++, though not necessarily realising
that they are in fact used in C++".
from an earlier post:
>>>Of course some other languages will achieve parity, someday, but
>>>only those designed by people who fully understand the strengths of
>>>standard C++. Maybe such a language will even succeed in avoiding
>>>its weaknesses.
>>
>>I take it that you mean they must understand the principles, although
>>not necessarily how they are applied in C++.
>No, absolutely the opposite!
You are saying that someone can't better C++ without first studying
C++!! This is absolutely wrong. A better language could be developed
in exactly the same way as C++ was, without ever even knowing that C++
existed.
This is getting very philosophical. It makes sense that if someone
today wanted to create a language better than C++ they would sit and
study C++ in great depth first. Perhaps this is all you are trying to
say?
Davin.
__________________________________________________________
*** davmac - sharkin'!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
my programming page: http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~davmac/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 09:18:18 +0100
From: James Cownie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CLONE_PID flag
David Wragg wrote:
> The intention, around the time that the clone system call was
> introduced, was that CLONE_PID could be used to implement POSIX
> threads signal semantics. The problem with that approach is that it
> requires thread ids to be added to the kernel, which would involve a
> large amount of effort without directly contributing to the desired
> signal behaviour. I think this is why the CLONE_PID effort hasn't
> shown any sign of life for a few years now.
>
There'd be some "fun" involved in debugging as well once multiple
processes shared the same pid. Since we use ptrace at the moment,
each thread is identified by its own unique pid.
Once many threads shared the sam pid to be able to continue to debug
multi-threaded programs one would need enhancements to ptrace to
identify the individual threads within the process, and to kill to
be able to send SIGCONT explicitly to the required thread.
On the positive side, if the kernel really knew more about threads
then it could generate multi-threaded core files, which it doesn't
at present.
-- Jim
James Cownie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Etnus, Inc. +44 117 9071438
http://www.etnus.com
------------------------------
From: Emile van bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Callbacks
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:43:54 +0200
On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, overflow wrote:
>I want to do a callback to real mode in order to talk to the BIOS. Does
>anybody know how to do it in Linux?
It is not done in Linux (yes, interpret this both ways). Luckily. The
bios is not used at all, except at boot time (before entering protected
mode) to gather some information about the system, and for some
PCI-related things (for which protected mode entry points exist). There
were some rumours about a hack to have the IDE-driver use the bios to
support some oddball storage media, but that's just what they were,
rumours and hacks.
If you're writing your own device driver, plan to do so yourself I
guess, instead of letting the BIOS handle the gory details.
--
M.vr.gr. / Best regards,
Emile van Bergen (e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
This e-mail message is 100% electronically degradeable and produced
on a GNU/Linux system.
~
~
:wq
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Klaus Schneider)
Subject: Re: binutils compile error
Date: 4 Jul 1999 16:03:14 GMT
Vic Mulyk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Klaus Schneider wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > trying to compile and install binutils 2.9.1
> > the compilation with �make� went ok, but when
> > �make install� I got a strange error:
> >
> > ranlib: error in loading shared libraries
> > : undefined symbol: __register_frame_info
> >
> > I looked at the things happening and noticed that
> > the error was produced by the new runlib in
> > binutils/.libs (although the wrapper script
> > should set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH) ;
> > trying to call
> >
> > binutils/.libs/ranlib manually also failed.
> >
> > What can I do?
> > What does produce that error?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> > Klaus
> What does your configure line look like?
Here�s my config.status:
#!/bin/sh
# This file was generated automatically by configure. Do not edit.
# This directory was configured as follows:
../src/configure --prefix=/usr --host=i386-linux --exec-prefix=/usr --enable-shared
--disable-debug --norecursion
# using "mh-frag" and "mt-frag"
Thanks,
Klaus
------------------------------
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