Linux-Development-Sys Digest #65, Volume #7 Wed, 18 Aug 99 05:14:23 EDT
Contents:
Re: threads (Christopher Browne)
Re: Printing in Linux (Christopher Browne)
Re: why not C++? (Christopher Browne)
Re: why not C++? (Don Waugaman)
Re: Can't compile network drivers (Stephen Torri)
Re: Beowulf info. (Stephen Torri)
Re: Can't compile network drivers (Stephen Torri)
Re: threads (M van Oosterhout)
Re: Why so inefficient source RPM's ?? (Suchandra Thapa)
why does root need supplementary groups? (Phil Howard)
gcc internal compiler error, why ? ("Cute Panda")
Re: why not C++? (Phil Howard)
pb boot with kernel 2.2.1 ("Nicolas Blanc")
[?]mount image without device (jauming)
$1/MINUTE PHONESEX W/ REAL PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF 60381 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: help - system stops with high I/O load ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
why not C++? (Cocheese)
NFS improvements/bug fixes (Richard Lovejoy)
if i have question about kernel source? ("Kim,Taesung")
Re: naive newbie wants to call add_timer() (Peter Pointner)
affs freezes kernel 2.2.11 (root)
Mice and Computer Switch? ("Jason")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: threads
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:47:11 GMT
On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:34:56 -0400, Ted Pavlic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> This is most likely why NT & IIS was able to serve up web pages more
>quickly
>> then Linux & Apache in recent tests. My guess is that Windows programmers
>> tend to think in terms of threads and Unix programmers tend to think in
>> terms of processes. Possibly one reason why Linux is more stable, threads
>> can be difficult to debug.
>
>This is a very good point. But give Linux people time, I really think we all
>will be more comfortable with threads as we realize exactly how many
>advantages come with threads. Threads are really the next step PAST forking
>off multiple processes to do concurrent tasks. Threads do this better.
>Threads communicate with each other a lot better. Threads share memory a lot
>better. True, threads are much more complicated and require a little bit
>more thought, but once one gets used to threads, they become a very useful
>and important tool.
>
>To Linux programmers out there very stubborn about trying using threads, I
>encourage them to broaden their views. Threads are important to NT. We all
>know how Linux compares to NT.... Just think if threads help improve the
>efficiency of NT, what could they do for Linux?
One package I'm involved with, GnuCash, is having stability problems
that result from there being a whole pile of code in the same process
space.
- There's GUI.
- There's "database engine."
- There's a Lisp interpreter.
- They interact.
Sometimes, they apparently interfere.
One of the better ideas would be to get things *out* into separate
processes. Perhaps even not on the same box.
Based on the experiences that I've seen thus far with threads, they
add complexity, tighten interfaces that often should be loosened, and
appear valuable as a tuning tool rather than as a
"tool-for-all-occasions."
--
We are MICROS~1. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
(Attributed to B.G., Gill Bates)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Printing in Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:47:13 GMT
On 17 Aug 1999 19:47:50 GMT, Norm Dresner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in article
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> On 16 Aug 1999 21:02:04 GMT, "Norm Dresner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote
>> in comp.os.linux.development.apps:
>>
>> >I need to write a c-program to print to the "default" printer which is
>>
>> Ignore the hardware-- you'll just get yourself into trouble. The system
>> has a print queue that will manage the printing for you. Just open a
>pipe
>> to the lp program and dump everything there.
>>
>>
> [SNIP]
>
>Yes, on a normal, multi-user system, you'll all right, no program should
>write directly to the printer. But (and I suppose I should have made this
>clear), this isn't a normal application, more like an embedded computer
>that happens to be running linux.
>
>So, is there an answer to the question of how I can tell if there's a
>default printer installed?
Look at /etc/printcap, and see what the setup is for the device "lp."
That will tell you if *anything* is configured.
If you're running an embedded application, it may be quite reasonable
to manage it "by hand" by the one process that you have running that
might print things.
If you might ever have reason to have other processes print documents,
it may be a wise move to set up "lp" and use lpr/lpd.
It could be useful when debugging problems when (on those rare
occasions) Weird Stuff Happens...
--
"Have you ever seen anything like that before?"
"Not while I've been a legal state of mind."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/printing.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:47:14 GMT
On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:02:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Just keep on using C. Why mess it all up with M3, C++?
>(Will someone come up with Java now?)
I suggested M3 in part because that would make it manifestly obvious
that the result of such a process is Not Going To Be Linux.
--
"The Amiga is proof that if you build a better mousetrap, the rats will
gang up on you." -- Bill Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Waugaman)
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Date: 17 Aug 1999 17:47:02 -0700
Newsgroups trimmed.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kaz Kylheku <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:28:38 -0400, Arinte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Well, I can see some of your points. But, if it was programmed it C++ then
>>the programmer can have a choice of doing there code in c or c++ without
>>having to do extra work. Using C++ would have been more open.
>
>Nonsense, you still have the choice of using C++. You should be able to
>write a driver in C++ for Linux.
Except that, IIRC, the various Linux header files that are used to create
headers and the like are not C++-clean - that is, they have structure
elements and the like that are reserved words in C++, and some other
incompatibilities.
Yes, it is still possible - technically, the headers themselves are not
necessary for building a module - but ease-of-maintenance concerns would
make it easier to use the same headers for both C and C++ modules.
The last time I had heard, the kernel developers headed by Linus had taken
no position (after being asked) on whether patches to make the header files
C++-clean would be accepted.
--
- Don Waugaman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) O- _|_ Will pun
Web Page: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/dpw/ | for food
In the Sonoran Desert, where we say: "It's a dry heat..." | <><
While you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour
lemon juice on it? - Miracle Max
------------------------------
From: Stephen Torri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't compile network drivers
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:16:04 -0400
Thanks for the note. I know that there is a driver from Realtek. What I
want to know is why there are so many drivers listed in the menu when I
use xconfig but are grayed out? I noticed that there were a large number
of normal drivers missing from menuconfig as well. Just curious.
Stephen
Marcus Wegner wrote:
>
> I am using a Realtek 8139 card (PCI) and it works without any problems.
>
> Try getting the new driver (rtl8139.c v1.07?).
>
> http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/drivers/rtl8139.html
>
> It's not in the actual kernel (2.2.11).
>
> If you can't enable your driver, check 'prompt for incomplete drivers'
>
> Stephen Torri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I downloaded the full 2.2.11 kernel and went through the normal steps.
> > When I used make menuconfig I found that I could not select my device
> > driver for my network card. I use th realtek driver and wasn't able to
> > select it. Is this normal or should I do something else?
> >
> > Stephen
------------------------------
From: Stephen Torri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Beowulf info.
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:29:52 -0400
You can read about it in the Beowulf-HOWTO
www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/jacek/beowulf
or goto the home page
www.beowulf.org
Stephen
ManEatingCow wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have info & sources on Beowulf ( distributed computing Linux ).
>
> Where ar the Usenet grouos for distributed computing?
>
> Regards,
>
> Phil
------------------------------
From: Stephen Torri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't compile network drivers
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:14:20 -0400
I know that there is a driver from Realtek. What I want to know is why
there are so many drivers listed in the menu when I use xconfig but are
grayed out? I noticed that there were a large number of normal drivers
missing from menuconfig as well. Just curious.
Stephen
Troy Brent wrote:
>
> Stephen Torri wrote:
>
> > I downloaded the full 2.2.11 kernel and went through the normal steps.
> > When I used make menuconfig I found that I could not select my device
> > driver for my network card. I use th realtek driver and wasn't able to
> > select it. Is this normal or should I do something else?
> >
> > Stephen
>
> Stephen,
>
> Try going to Realtek's website; if they don't have a linux driver, they
> may be able to tell you which pre-loaded Linux driver will work (i.e.
> Tulip, etc.)
> Troy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:33:24 +1000
From: M van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: threads
Bill Burris wrote:
>
> I have multiple devices which I need to respond to regularly. Instead of
> going around polling them I have a thread dedicated to servicing each
> device. When there is no I/O happening the thread sleeps.
Isn't this what select() and poll() and SIGIO are for?
> > Perhaps that is the case in Windows where, as I understand, co-operating
> > processes are very difficult to do.
> >
>
> To do this with separate processes means you have the extra overhead
> associated with maintaining separate address spaces. There is also the
> overhead associated with synchronization and communications between
> processes. Threads are essentially a light weight form of multitasking.
Processes on Linux are *very* cheap. A process context switch on Linux
takes less time than a thread context switch on NT.
> This is most likely why NT & IIS was able to serve up web pages more quickly
> then Linux & Apache in recent tests. My guess is that Windows programmers
> tend to think in terms of threads and Unix programmers tend to think in
> terms of processes. Possibly one reason why Linux is more stable, threads
> can be difficult to debug.
The other main problem with threads is that if any of then get an error,
then the whole process dies. With Apache, if a loadable module
segfaults.
that single process dies and it's parent spawns a new one. Thus, Apache
tends to never crash.
The reason why samba doesn't use threads is because it needs different
security contexts for each connection (uid, groups, etc). Also, the
reason it started out as separate processes was because he wasn't sure
of the protocol, so if an unknown message was received, he could log it
and exit. All other connections would be unaffected.
I think it's not so much that people don't like threads, but that they
simply aren't the right tool for the job.
Martijn van Oosterhout
Australia
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Suchandra Thapa)
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc,linux.redhat.rpm
Subject: Re: Why so inefficient source RPM's ??
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:12:43 GMT
Peter Mutsaers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>With source RPM's, it seems you have to re-download the whole thing
>(sometimes huge RPM's such as gcc) for every minor tweak.
>
>Am I missing something? Is there a place where Redhat (or contrib)
>source RPM's are located in unpacked form so that I can update without
>downloading the whole original source over and over again?
If you do a rpm -Uvh or rpm -ivh to the source rpm then you
should get the tar.gz'ed source in the /usr/src/redhat/SOURCE directory
and the spec in /usr/src/redhat/SPEC directory. Just download the patch
and place it in the SOURCE directory and add the proper lines to the spec
files (Patch[n]: patch.tar.gz where n is some integer at the top of the
spec file and a corresponding %patch[n] -your_options_to_patch before the
%build). Then after a rpm -bb your.spec or rpm -ba your.spec the binary
rpm should appear in /usr/src/redhat/RPM hierarchy and the source rpm in
/usr/src/redhat/SRPMS.
--
==================================================================
Suchandra S. Thapa
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phil Howard)
Subject: why does root need supplementary groups?
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:05:32 GMT
Why does root need supplementary groups? Redhat and other
distributions, and even other Unix systems, put root in the
supplementary list for various groups in /etc/group. What's
the point in doing that? Doesn't root have almighty power?
--
Phil Howard KA9WGN
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Cute Panda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: gcc internal compiler error, why ?
Date: 18 Aug 1999 04:28:31 GMT
Hello friends,
I have no idea about the internal compiler errro of gcc, anybody knows ?
please help, thanks a lot!
../../gcc/local-alloc.c:1974: Internal compiler error in function
find_free_reg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phil Howard)
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:15:42 GMT
On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:28:38 -0400 Arinte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
| Well, I can see some of your points. But, if it was programmed it C++ then
| the programmer can have a choice of doing there code in c or c++ without
| having to do extra work. Using C++ would have been more open.
C++ can call C functions more easily (although without benefit of features)
than C can call C++. There would have to be C stubs to front end a C++ SPI.
I would have thought there would be a C++ analogy to the system calls that
has been written as a library somewhere. If not, then maybe there should be.
If C++ programmers feel the need, surely they would develop it, no?
--
Phil Howard KA9WGN
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Nicolas Blanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: pb boot with kernel 2.2.1
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:23:17 +0300
Rq: if it's not the good group tell me please !!
Hello,
my config:
Red Hat 5.3 on a K6-2-400 with 64Mo
SCSI disks and tape with an advansys card
All necessary modules are updated conforming to the specs
my pb:
For the 100th time i try to boot with my new kernel 2.2.1 but it doesn't
work, i explain.
I ve compiled it and it's modules without pb, it's installed under /boot
with its System.map-2.2.1 like my running one as shown there (ls /boot) :
System.map-2.0.36-3
module-info-2.0.36-3
vmlinuz-2.0.36-3
boot.b
chain.b
os2_d.b
initrd-2.0.36-3.img
boot.0800
map
System.map is a link to System.map-2.2.1
module-info
System.map-2.2.1
vmlinuz-2.2.1
The pb is that it doesn't boot at all, LILO is writen on the screen but it
stops at "Now booting the kernel" , i noticed that there is a disk activity
beyond this point and when i reboot there are many fsck...
I think there is a problem wtih the "initrd" in the lilo.conf file, i don't
know what it is used for (i read the lilo doc ... but it it is not
explained) but i realise that it's important for the boot. how could i build
a new one?
Rq: I haven't compile scsi drivers as modules !
here's my lilo.conf:
boot=/dev/sda
map=/boot/map
install=/boot/boot.b
prompt
timeout=50
other=/dev/sda1
label=dos
table=/dev/sda
image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.0.36-3
label=linux
root=/dev/sda2
initrd=/boot/initrd-2.0.36-3.img
read-only
image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.1
label=essai
root=/dev/sda2
initrd=/boot/initrd-2.0.36-3.img <= not very nice !!!!
read-only
Thanks a lot for your help, and enjoy Linux again and again
------------------------------
From: jauming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [?]mount image without device
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 05:33:59 GMT
subject: [?] mount image without device
howdy, how do i mount a file-system-image (root,romfs)
liked within linux-kernel-image(vmlinux)
directly without extra real device
and without using initrd
thx in advanced!:)
please also reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
--
regards
--
--
regards
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: $1/MINUTE PHONESEX W/ REAL PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF 60381
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:46:05 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wanna meet someone tonight?
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* Guys: $1 per minute
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line. Give it a try!
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: help - system stops with high I/O load
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:02:34 GMT
In article <7p31p8$5i4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[nasty problem]
After several tests, hardware and software replacements,
reinstallations, changes in the sysctrl interface, tests
with system call wrappers and other it now showed up, that all
of these machines had defective swap partitions. Turning off
swap makes them run like they should and like we were used
to it.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Cocheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: why not C++?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:30:47 GMT
Dear Linux Community;
There has been a puzzling question on my mind for some time. First, I
admit i am no Linux Guru so this may be off the wall.
*Why Is linux done primarily in the C programming language rather than
C++?*
Again I admit it would take a little extra work and put a minor set
back in the evolution for a month or 2, but if C++ is so much faster,
easier, and stable- WHY NOT?
I have been a RH 6.0 user since the first week it was first released
and since then i have loved it. I am struggling with it a bit but as i
continue to learn this from an "other leading brand OS" and a full time
programmer for a large company.
There are many differences Between the two programming languages and
there are huge advantages to C++.
The downside is "linux has always been a C based Program so it will always
be."
*** BUT THEN AGAIN - ISN'T LINUX ALL ABOUT CHANGE? ***
-Sincerely
cocheese
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Lovejoy)
Subject: NFS improvements/bug fixes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:07:26 GMT
Hi there.
I have a problem mounting exports from Clearcase running
on Solaris 2.6 (on sparc hardware). It's a very peculiar
problem, and I'd like to either fix it (if it's on the
linux side) or work around it (if it's on the
Solaris/ClearCase side).
I don't have the time at work to learn all the bits and pieces
of the various NFS versions, and how they work in the kernel.
I'm looking for somebody with this sort of knowledge to assist
me in figuring out how to go about this.
Is anyone interested?
Just in case somebody has encountered the problem before,
when I export a Clearcase view, it works fine until a
view-private file is created. Then, the directory
containing the view-private file becomes inaccessible.
Solaris Linux Problem?
2.5 2.0.x, 2.2.x N
2.6 2.0.x, 2.2.x Y
A while ago I added some debugging information to the
NFS module, but I had no idea what I was looking for, and
the problem didn't leap out at me, so I put it aside.
Now, all of our servers have gone to Solaris 2.6, so I
have to find a solution (or do something really kludgey,
like smbmount from Samba, which I don't want to do
if I can possibly help it).
So, does anybody want to help?
Richard.
--
Richard Lovejoy. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 3 9301 6284
Send me mail with "Public key" as the subject for an automated reply.
PGP fingerprint: 89 38 64 1D A7 5E 8D 1E 50 99 90 B4 B4 3F F2 4E
------------------------------
From: "Kim,Taesung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: if i have question about kernel source?
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:28:43 +0900
Hello!
I am reading linux kernel source.
If I have question about kernel source,
where can I ask for?
Is here good place?
Is there this kind of mailing list?
In sys_shmat, What does SHM_REMAP flag mean?
Thanks for regarding.
------------------------------
From: Peter Pointner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: naive newbie wants to call add_timer()
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:04:45 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to get some rudimentary understanding of calling a system
> function.
> // itimetest.c
> #include <linux/timer.h>
> int main()
> {
> timer_list tl; // (todo: initialize tl properly!)
> add_timer( &tl);
> }
> [jclonts@deathstar cpp]$ g++ itimetest.c
> /tmp/ccNO5zm3.o: In function `main':
> /tmp/ccNO5zm3.o(.text+0xb): undefined reference to
> `add_timer(timer_list *)'
> So I'm trying to figure out, how do I tell the linker about the
> function add_timer?
You don't. add_timer is for use in the kernel (including loadable
modules). A normal application can only use the system calls to the
kernel, and you do that normally by using the function calls provided
by libc.
Peter
------------------------------
From: root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: affs freezes kernel 2.2.11
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:05:25 GMT
Has anyone had any luck mounting an Amiga ffs disk with any Linux
kernel? While I was picking goodies in the 2.2.11 kernel to enable, I
decided to try adding affs, since I have a couple of Amiga formatted
zip and syquest disks I'd like to access. Whether I use affs as a
module or directly compiled in, as soon as I try
mount -t affs /dev/sdb1 /mnt/azip
I get something like
RDSK sd(blur)(blur)(blur)
with the first blur apparently being letters a through o, and the
other blurs being digits 0-1 and 0-9. Since my Advansys SCSI
controller works fine with VFAT, DOS, HFS, and the usual EXT2 disks,
I can't imagine that this nonsense is. What's expecially vexing is
that it locks the system up so hard, I have to hit the HW reset.
------------------------------
From: "Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mice and Computer Switch?
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 03:08:52 -0500
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has run into the following problem:
I have a bunch of Linux boxes all connected to a Belkin Omni View Switch (An
electronic switch for Mouse, Keyboard, and Monitor). The problem I'm having
is when I leave one of my Linux boxes running X and I switch to another
machine and then back to the first one I get nothing but erratic mouse
movement in X on that box. I thought at first that it might be an X problem
but I also can reproduce the problem using GPM. I then thought that I was
dealing with a hardware problem, but the catch is that Windoze NT has the
EXACT same problem until Service Pack 3 is installed. Once that Service
Pack is installed I can switch to my hearts content and don't have a
problem. I have looked on the web for HOW-TO's, FAQs, and searched the
online support databases for Linux and haven't found anything that comes
close to my problem. So I'm hoping that someone else has run into this and
can tell me where to turn or how to fix it. The vitals are as follows:
RedHat 6.0 (DEFAULT LOAD, no upgrades of any kind)
MS Intellimouse PRO (PS/2)
Belkin Omni View (4 Port PS/2 Switch)
I would love to be able leave X running all the time, but because of this
problem I have to exit X, kill GPM, and then restart both to get the mouse
working again. I also noticed that the XF86Setup program doesn't seem to
like my mouse at all, as I am unable to get the mouse to function properly
at all in that program.
Any ideas?
Jason
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
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