Linux-Development-Sys Digest #113, Volume #7 Thu, 26 Aug 99 18:14:18 EDT
Contents:
Re: The optimization debate (was: why not C++?) ("Stefan Monnier "
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
Re: I HATE LT WIN MODEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Lew Pitcher)
HELP! - I've written a kernel module and I can't get it to load! ******** HELP!
******** ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: PCI Programming (Mad Matt)
Re: Jesus: the ultimate OS (Don Waugaman)
Re: glibc-2.1.1 problems (Mike Dowling)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
Re: Jesus: the ultimate OS ("Stuart Fox")
Re: glibc-2.1.1 problems (roger@localhost)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
Newbies Programming course (Tor Harald Thorland)
Re: PROPOSAL: A secure, simple NIS replacement (Tuomo Pyhala)
Re: what about SGI's xfs? (Peter Mutsaers)
Re: does linux have a package for drawing block diagrams ? (Phil Howard)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Stefan Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The optimization debate (was: why not C++?)
Date: 26 Aug 1999 13:12:41 -0400
>>>>> "Paul" == Paul D Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My argument is that (a) just because a particular idiom, like counting
> down instead of up, gives better performance in some cases it probably
> won't in all cases: that's extremely compiler and architecture dependent
In this specific case, you could probably argue that comparing against
a universal constant (i.e. zero) is inherently faster than comparing
against some other number. So it's very unlikely that the mere fact
of counting down would ever be detrimental.
But counting down might have side effects like "traversing an array
from the end to the beginning" which might defeat some hardcoded
prefetch strategies. So, it's just better to write things in as obvious
and simple a way as possible, since that's what compilers and machines
are optimized for.
> likely to lead to more efficient code! I, myself, quite often use
> temporary pointers to walk through arrays rather than incrementing a
> counter and using array indexing. I actually do it because I find the
> code simpler to understand that way, but it's probably faster, too.
Last time I timed such code, I found out that it was actually slower
because the pointer manipulation defeated the simple alias analysis
and prevented some code reorganization, while the more straightforward
array access was much better understood by the compiler (and automatically
turned into a temp-pointer walking through the array).
If code is easier to understand for a programmer, it's probably also easier to
understand for a compiler, leading to better code.
Stefan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lew Pitcher)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,redhat.hardware.arch.intel
Subject: Re: I HATE LT WIN MODEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:54:41 GMT
>From the explanations I've seen on some modem manufacturers sites,
there seems to be three breeds of 'WinModem'.
First, there are modem chipsets that lack the serial-port used to
connect the modem to the computer ('Software UART' modems).
Second, there are modem chipsets that lack the controller that
interprets the Hayes AT commandset ('HCF' or 'controllerless' modems).
Finally, there are modem chipsets that lack the DSP necessary to
process modem tones into valid binary data and perform the various
V.35/V.90/etc. compression/decompression functions ('HSP' modems).
On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:57:25 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:40:15 -0400, george <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Win modems are also known as controllerless modems. They rely on the
>system CPU to run the phone - computer interface. Traditional modems
>have an on board processor to handle this task. Depending on the
>machine and the amount of data being transferred, the system can take
>a significant performance hit when managing the modem. This is also
>true for certian sound cards which also rely on the system processor
>to do the work. Beware of inexpensive products. It likely doesn't
>perform as well as it's more expensive competitors.
>
>>Not to be rude, but Win modems do not work under Linux. Hence the name "Win"
>>modem - they only work under Windows. This is because the hardware
>>manufacturer was very cheep and decided that rather than add the extra
>>components to make it a real modem, they would supply drivers - for windows
>>only - to make the modem work.
>>
>>Sorry.
>>
>>liuyb wrote:
>>
>>> I have a lt win modem, but I can't let it work in linux. I tried all means
>>> and spend a lot of time , the result is the same. So I hate it.
>>> I HATE WIN MODEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>--
>>George Nimmer - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Linux - The choice of a GNU generation
>>
>>
>>
>
Lew Pitcher
System Consultant, Development Services
Toronto Dominion Bank
(Opinions expressed are my own, not my employers')
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: HELP! - I've written a kernel module and I can't get it to load! ********
HELP! ********
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:10:25 GMT
I have been trying to learn how to write a kernel module for a couple
of weeks and I keep running into the same problem. I have read
Alessandro Rubini's "Linux Device Drivers" as well as "Linux Kernel
Module Programming" (http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/LDP/lkmpg/mpg.html)
by Ori Pomerantz. When I try to implement their sample code with
their makefiles I have probelms linking into the O/S. The programs
compile fine and are made with the __KERNEL__ and MODULE defined, but
when I try to insmod the module into the kernel, I get the error
message
./chardev.o: unresolved symbol bad_user_access_length
Correct me if I am wrong, but this tells me that insmod is unable to
find the bad_user_access_length function in the kernel. How do I solve
this problem? Where do I find a good troubleshooting guide? HELP! I am
losing my hair - fast!
------------------------------
From: Mad Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: PCI Programming
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:30:11 GMT
On 23 Aug 1999, Peter Samuelson wrote:
| Correct, but in this case, as another poster pointed out, the user-mode
| program `setpci' can already do what he wants.
Thanks for the help everyone. I got the pciutils compiled and using a
PCI config viewer under DOS I managed to knock up a script that changed
the register(s), (I noticed a few more that needed fiddling with), so
that the config space was identical under both OS'. But whenever I try
to insert the sb module, linux complains about the IRQ conflicting but
it still continues. Sound won't work, I get DMA timeouts, but the mixer
_does_ work 'cos CD's play OK. I even tried warm-booting from DOS, the
module inserts with no warnings, but I get no other benefits.
Looks like I _will_ have to write a module, I'll do it for the cards
native mode if anything, ALSA already supports a similar ESS card so
there can't be much work needed, (fingers crossed).
Thanks again,
Matt
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Waugaman)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Jesus: the ultimate OS
Date: 26 Aug 1999 12:31:43 -0700
In article <7q347o$6k7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[Miles Bader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>> Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over,
>> pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come. --Nietzsche
>Someone else's sig, somewhere, attributes this quote or one very like
>it to Matt Groening [of Simpsons fame]. Who's right?
Nietzsche died in 1900. Not too many snowmobiles back then.
I wouldn't be too surprised if it wasn't credited to him in a Simpsons
episode, though.
--
- Don Waugaman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) O- _|_ Will pun
Web Page: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/dpw/ | for food
In the Sonoran Desert, where we say: "It's a dry heat..." | <><
Never put off till tomorrow what you can avoid all together.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Dowling)
Subject: Re: glibc-2.1.1 problems
Date: 26 Aug 1999 17:20:40 GMT
On 25 Aug 1999 16:06:27 +0200, Andreas Jaeger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Dowling writes:
>>> How did you call configure?
>
>Mike> ./configure --prefix=/usr --disable-nls
>--with-add-ons=crypt,linuxthreads,localedata
>
>I advise to not build in the source directory, read the INSTALL file.
>Btw. --disable-nls is useless, the option is call
>--enable-add-ons=... and localedata is always included. Just use
>--enable-add-ons to use all that you have.
Sorry, this is the result of my trying to remember what I did at home,
as opposed to cutting and pasting. My source directory is
/usr/src/glibc-2.1.1, while the build directory is
/usr/src/glibc-build.
>>> Please try the following:
>>> - Install into a temporary directory with make install
>>> install_root=/tmp/glibc
>>> - play around in this temporary directory with (see FAQ 3.18):
>>> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/tmp/glibc/lib /tmp/glibc/lib/ld-linux.so.2 /some/binary
>>> and check if this works - or not.
>
>Mike> Done. The installation process proceeds to the bitter end. I set the
>Mike> LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and set the symbolic link for /lib/ld-linux.so.2 to
>Mike> point to ld-2.1.1.so in the temporary directory. The effect was exactly
>Then don't do it. Is it so difficult to follow exactly my
>instruction?
Sorry, I thought the two were equivalent. Certainly, the seem
equivalent in that they both yield the __setfpucw error.
>__setfpucw is an internal symbol of glibc, none of your binaries
>should use it (see FAQ 3.12). Please check which binary/library wants
>__setfpucw -- and why -- and rebuild those first.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of binaries want __setfpucw. I suppose
that this means that my gcc (egcs-1.1.2) is stuffed. It was compiled
with a binary release of egcc-1.0 I think.
Even helloworld.c wants __setfpucw! In short, every binary produced
with the egcs-1.1.2 compiler wants __setfpucw, and every binary produced
with the binary distribution of egcs-1.0 also. In fact, the only
binaries that don't requite __setfpucw are the file-utils compiled in
August last year! There might be more; probably X11 stuff is all right,
as that was also a binary XFree release.
Even assuming that I could find or compile a compiler that no longer
produces binaries that want __setfpucw, I would have to re-compile
almost every binary on the system.
I could do this over time, a very long time during which I would have to
continue to use glibc-2.0.6, but it would at least eventually solve the
problem. The only thing stopping me from doing that is that I have no
idea as to how I could obtain or compile a version of gcc that does not
exhibit the problem. I could perhaps use gcc-2.95.1.tar.gz instead, but
the FAQ advises egcs. Perhaps its worth a try anyway.
Cheers,
Mike Dowling
--
My email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] above is a valid email address.
It is, in fact, a sendmail alias; the digit 'N' is incremented regularly.
Spammed aliases will be deleted. Currently, mike[5,7-9,12,13,16] have been
deleted. If email to mikeN bounces, try mikeN+1.
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 26 Aug 1999 20:00:05 GMT
In comp.os.misc EdToy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In article <7ps2vu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: says...
: Leaders _do_. False leaders yap. Have you done anything lately? Come
: back when you implement anything significant of what you think is "the
: right way". Until then, stop yapping and do something.
paradoxically, I don't consider myself leading anything. that perhaps
is the problem, for those followers who demand leaders.
for the impatient & surly ones such as yourself, I am happy to announce
the tangible progress that I now have a few people on a mailing
list & some modest initial traffic.
the mailing list is for dicussion of OS advances, not necessarily
focused on my own agenda. (I'm sure you won't be impressed. save
yourself the trouble and avoid telling me so.)
imho.. the OS of tens of thousands of lines of code starts
with but a few posts. <g>
btw.. "contributers _do_. false contributors yap. have you done
anything lately? come back when you implement anything significant
of what you think is "the right way". until then, stop yapping and
do something.
: If you were
: attempting "a call to labor", forget it--people have wised up since the
: Linux/GNU debacle.
huh? what linux/gnu debacle are you referring to?
for all those who are not so impatient and willing to give without
first demanding (as I have done with the essay)..& further interested
in Taoist principles applied to software development.. sign up below.
thanks<g>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 26 Aug 1999 19:52:25 GMT
In comp.os.misc Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: but this DOES NOT MEAN that if your ideas meet with
: psychological resistance that they must therefore be brilliant. Who
: was it that said it? "They laughed at Einstein, they laughed at
: Galileo, they laughed at Edison, but they also laughed at Bozo the
: Clown."
very funny you should mention that.
bozo is a good friend of mine. he told me he posts to the internet
under a pseudonym. in fact I suspect he has contributed quite
a bit to this thread.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Jesus: the ultimate OS
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:05:49 +1200
Christopher R. Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Stuart Fox wrote:
> >
> > There is also plenty of evidence that the whole religion is based on
> > Egyptian religion. But you knew that because you've researched this
> > thoroughly?
>
> I'm not really interested in Egyptology all that much. Is there
> something importatnt that I should be aware of?
Just that many of the Egyptian traditions were assimilated into the
Christian faith. Interestingly enough, the Christianity of today was mostly
started by the writings of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus. Could that be
why there's so much shit in the name of Christianity?
>
> > Have a look at all the books that didn't make it into the Bible because
they
> > didn't toe the party line.
>
> Would you post the books on the Internet. I don't have access to them.
They've been published in one form or another (mostly), with plenty of
analyses. Anything which discusses the real dead sea scrolls, or the
"gnostic scriptures" should cover all the bits that were left out.
------------------------------
From: roger@localhost
Subject: Re: glibc-2.1.1 problems
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:21:28 GMT
On 24 Aug 1999 08:45:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Dowling)
wrote:
> When this happened, the sources would compile, but
>the "make install" failed. Here is the relevant excerpt from the "make
>install" output:
>
>make -C elf ldso_install
>make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/glibc-2.1.1/elf'
>/bin/install -c /usr/src/glibc-build/elf/ld.so /lib/ld-2.1.1.so.new
>mv -f /lib/ld-2.1.1.so.new /lib/ld-2.1.1.so
>rm -f /lib/ld-linux.so.2
>ln -s ld-2.1.1.so /lib/ld-linux.so.2
>make[2]: ln: Command not found
I followed the instructions and this happened to me, too.
<newbie-alert>
Am I correct in thinking that the problem would not occur if "sln" was being
used?
If so, which file needs to be edited to achieve this?
</newbie-alert>
--
Roger
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 26 Aug 1999 19:49:59 GMT
In comp.os.misc void <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Do you have anything new? I mean, the requirements doc is the same, but
: do you have any other design docs yet?
no, no design docs. no VC funding. no CD rom golden master.
no free t-shirts. no free money. no IPO. no patience
for the impatient. zilch. zero. nada.
as I say, the main thing I am promoting at this point is a mailing
list for people who are interested in contributing, or tracking
OS related advancements.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: Tor Harald Thorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Newbies Programming course
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:29:56 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============A6C1A2248A626E25D9314A87
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Hello,
I'm trying to learn some programming and wonder if someone can tell me
which programming language too start with, and where to find some
tutorials/documents for newbies.
Where to find that specific program would be great too.
Thx
THT
==============A6C1A2248A626E25D9314A87
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tuomo Pyhala)
Crossposted-To: comp.security.unix
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: A secure, simple NIS replacement
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:24:34 GMT
[[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote...]
>The real problem is not converting /etc/passwd to another database form
>but converting it *back*, i.e. either getting applications to use the
>other form or having a mechanism to regenerate /etc/passwd on demand on
>all your machines. libc has directly supported NIS for ages but the
>others would require either patches to all your applications or patches
>to a common library. This, of course, is PAM's raison d'�tre....
AFAIK. Some OS's (at least Linux and Solaris) have support for NSS (Name
service switch) which will enable people to write modules to redirect
getpwnam etc. Some might have other means of redirecting queries.
A problem could still rise, if there would be programs accessing password
directly, not through libc-functions.
PAM only authenticates users.
------------------------------
From: Peter Mutsaers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: what about SGI's xfs?
Date: 26 Aug 1999 21:23:29 +0200
>> "X" == XuYifeng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
X> I think it will be in Kernel 3.0, but I prefer there will have
X> a ACL (Access controll list) for file system, the traditional
X> User-Group-Other model is too simply, and not powerful.
I hope there will never be ACL. I've always cursed it on systems that
do have them (such as Novell and NT): they create an organizatorial
mess.
system administrators, instead of thinking about a sound group
structure, just do the quick thing and add people to ACL's all over
the place. It seems easier than thinking out a group scheme (UNIX: put
people in several groups, use the setgid bit on directories etc) but
after a short while you completely loose oversight.
--
Peter Mutsaers | Abcoude (Utrecht), | Trust me, I know
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | the Netherlands | what I'm doing.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phil Howard)
Subject: Re: does linux have a package for drawing block diagrams ?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:53:23 GMT
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:59:04 GMT Peter Pointner ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
| ... and if not, you will start development of a kernel module that
| does that?
| Or why else do you post this question to comp.os.linux.development.system?
Unfortunately, lots of people tend to think of everything that was installed
when they installed the "system" as part of the "system". Which means they
may not think of things like Netscape or The Gimp as applications. Only what
is added on would be an application to them.
Combine that with the somewhat misleading name of this group, and there is
bound to be some level of confusion. And people already disagree over many
things rightly classified as the gray area, such as libraries, loaders,
sysinit scripts, etc. If the group was for the kernel only, it would have
been called comp.os.linux.development.kernel, right?
Certainly, a drawing or CAD type tool is an application. But be prepared for
people that may not even realize that.
--
Phil Howard KA9WGN
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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