Linux-Development-Sys Digest #136, Volume #7 Wed, 1 Sep 99 15:14:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Theodore Y. Ts'o)
Re: what's a "jiffy" in /proc? (David T. Blake)
Re: SCSI device/partition limit? (Craig Henry)
Cool new Linux Dist - Runs from Flash-ROM - Free if you download (James Stevens)
Re: Win95 is a bloody pain in th ass(after I installed linux)!! (Tranceport)
Re: why not C++? (Don Waugaman)
Re: Linux on RS/6000 (Peter Samuelson)
Initial Linux System Installation (Matthew)
Re: The optimization debate (was: why not C++?) (William Burrow)
Sei BRAVO a programmare?
Re: Initial Linux System Installation (Klaus Schneider)
Re: Disabling control-alt-delete from a program ("Ben Gunter")
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Bill Davidson)
Re: Linux on RS/6000 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Where can I find autotools to download?? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Theodore Y. Ts'o)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 01 Sep 1999 10:28:35 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter T. Breuer) writes:
> : If your version of the sandbox concept doesn't do anything more radical
> : than limiting what files can be read or written and the amount of
>
> C'mon folks, don't be dense. He means a virtual unix provided to the
> user to play in. That's a sandbox.
Indeed, and sandboxes aren't new either, and even predate Java.
The limitations of sandboxes are also well known; either you make the
sandbox too limiting, in which case you can't do anything interesting,
or you make the sandbox too big, in which case the virus or other
hostile code can do too much damage.
For example, all user applications can't just run in a sandbox, because
they need access to the user's data files. So if you have hostile code
embedded in a Microsoft Word macro, for example, the fact that it's
running in a sandbox won't help you. You could restrict things so that
an application only has access to its own data files --- i.e., a word
processor has access to only its own word processor files, and a spread
sheet only has access to its file. But now you can't embedded a
spreadsheet in a word processor document!
This sorts of tradeoffs happen all the time when you're dealing with a
sandbox architecture, and as always, the devil is in the details.
Simply saving your arms and saying that "the problems will go away
because I'm using a sandbox" is rather specious.
- Ted
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Blake)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux,comp/os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: what's a "jiffy" in /proc?
Date: 1 Sep 1999 13:42:26 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quiney, Philip (EXCHANGE:HAL02:HM10) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Basically every time the timer interrupt occurs the value of
> the variable 'jiffies' is incremented. This value is used by the
> kernel and other driver modules as required.
>
> From this you can see thet the period is 1/100 sec (10msec) so
> your original definition of 1/ is correct and 2/ is wrong (but
> would be OK if it said 10msec).
You actually accumulate more HZ jiffies/second on Intel
architecture for each cpu.
--
Dave Blake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Craig Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SCSI device/partition limit?
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 13:31:06 GMT
Cory Papenfuss wrote:
> Hey... I've got a fairly unique problem with scsi. I've got an
> Adaptec 2940 OEM with three drives as the main system (sda=swap, /, /usr;
> sdb=/home; sdc=/usr/local). This works fine and is statically compiled
> into the kernel.
> The problems is the RAID I've come up with on the second SCSI
> controller. It's an NCR53c825, 50-pin narrow card. It's basically
filled
> up. DDS-1 tape drive at ID0, and then 6 1GB drives, with the first two
in
> a striped RAID0 and the last four in another. I'm using the ncr53c8xx
> driver as a kernel module. Here's the problem:
> When the module loads, it can see partitions on sdd-sdi (ID1-6 on
NCR
> controller) when the modules loads, but does not register all the
> partitions in /proc/partitions. It can only see through sdg1. Also,
when
> I unload and load the module again, it loses two drive letters -- as
> though the previous load didn't give them back (i.e. sdd-i becomes sdf-k
> the next time). I've tried the 53c7,8xx driver also, which gives back
the
> letters, but still doesn't see them all.
> One more bit of info. Each of the individual software RAIDs works
> by itself. So, two devices or four devices is fine, but when all six
> disks are on the bus, it can't register enough devices.
>
>
> Any clues?
>
> Thanks,
> -Cory
>
>
>
> FYI, here's some relevent dumps:
>
> Module load:
> ncr53c8xx: at PCI bus 0, device 8, function 0
> ncr53c8xx: 53c825 detected
> ncr53c825-0: rev=0x02, base=0xffecef00, io_port=0x7800, irq=7
> ncr53c825-0: ID 7, Fast-10, Parity Checking
> ncr53c825-0: restart (scsi reset).
> scsi1 : ncr53c8xx - version 3.2
> scsi : 2 hosts.
> Vendor: ARCHIVE Model: Python 25501-XXX Rev: 296A
> Type: Sequential-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 01
> Detected scsi tape st0 at scsi1, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
> Vendor: QUANTUM Model: EMPIRE_1080S Rev: 1242
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sdd at scsi1, channel 0, id 1, lun 0
> Vendor: QUANTUM Model: EMPIRE_1080S Rev: 1242
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sde at scsi1, channel 0, id 2, lun 0
> Vendor: MICROP Model: 2210-09MQ1001901 Rev: HQ30
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sdf at scsi1, channel 0, id 3, lun 0
> Vendor: CONNER Model: CFP1060S 1.05GB Rev: 2035
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sdg at scsi1, channel 0, id 4, lun 0
> Vendor: SEAGATE Model: ST11200N Rev: 9682
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sdh at scsi1, channel 0, id 5, lun 0
> ncr53c825-0-<6,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8)
> Vendor: IBM Model: 0662S12 !O Rev: 2 23
> Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
> Detected scsi disk sdi at scsi1, channel 0, id 6, lun 0
> ncr53c825-0-<1,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<2,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<3,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<4,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<5,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<6,0>: tagged command queue depth set to 8
> ncr53c825-0-<1,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8)
> SCSI device sdd: hdwr sector= 512 bytes. Sectors= 2109376 [1029 MB] [1.0
> GB]
> sdd: sdd1
> ncr53c825-0-<2,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8)
> SCSI device sde: hdwr sector= 512 bytes. Sectors= 2109376 [1029 MB] [1.0
> GB]
> sde: sde1
> ncr53c825-0-<3,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8)
> SCSI device sdf: hdwr sector= 512 bytes. Sectors= 2065250 [1008 MB] [1.0
> GB]
> sdf: sdf1
> ncr53c825-0-<4,*>: FAST-10 SCSI 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8)
> SCSI device sdg: hdwr sector= 512 bytes. Sectors= 2074880 [1013 MB] [1.0
> GB]
> sdg: sdg1
>
>
> cat /proc/partitions
> major minor #blocks name
>
> 8 0 1037440 sda
> 8 1 66544 sda1
> 8 2 103424 sda2
> 8 3 867328 sda3
> 8 16 1025430 sdb
> 8 17 1024586 sdb1
> 8 32 533127 sdc
> 8 33 532464 sdc1
> 8 48 1054688 sdd
> 8 49 1054598 sdd1
> 8 64 1054688 sde
> 8 65 1054598 sde1
> 8 80 1032625 sdf
> 8 81 1032176 sdf1
> 8 96 1037440 sdg
> 8 97 1037296 sdg1
>
>
compare the above table to: ls -l /dev/sd*
if no further devices are defined, you may add more through MAKEDEVICE or
better through mknod
many builds come with a predefined set which stops at 8 112 sdh or 8 240
sdp
if your actual devices exceed the allocated identifiers, they may be
stepping on each other
also, try mounting them after OS is up instead of during boot by commenting
the drives out of /etc/fstab
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Stevens)
Subject: Cool new Linux Dist - Runs from Flash-ROM - Free if you download
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:44:07 GMT
PizzaBox Server: File, Print & CD Server with remote access, Tape
Backup, UPS support and sophisticated Web Management running Linux &
Samba, on standard PC hardware, from a plug in Flash-ROM. Available to
end users / resellers as a turnkey server or to system builders in kit
form. Free, fully working, evaluation copy can be downloaded as only
three floppy images from our web site. http://www.jrcs.co.uk/
------------------------------
From: Tranceport <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win95 is a bloody pain in th ass(after I installed linux)!!
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:35:36 GMT
> > ******************************************************************
> > Santosh .H :
> > Activities Linux Linux and only Linux :-)
> > Thought for a lifetime:
> > Only Wimps use MS windows
> > Toughs use Linux:-)
> Yes I use MS windows (besides other OS).
> English is not my native language and unfortunately I don't know
excatly
> what 'wimp' means.
> Could you elaborate in other words who I am, Mr. Santosh ?
>
>
Wimp=coward, soft (in a bad way), lazy, idiot
All of 'em.
I disagree though. You got to have balls to use MS windows and trust it
with your documents and files, considering how often it blows up.
I use both (Linux and Win).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Waugaman)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Date: 1 Sep 1999 08:44:38 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kaz Kylheku <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:11:45 -0400, Mary Mest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>The actual purpose of those operators is to allow any class the ability to
>>define its own methods of streaming itself out.
>
>This is not possible. The << and >> operators take a stream object on the left.
>This means that they must be the members of a stream class, or non-members. We
>are talking about C++ right?
Sure. You just have to extend your thinking enough to encompass the concept
that functions specified as friends in a class definition are just as much
a part of that class as full-fledged member functions, just with a different
syntax.
>A non-brain-damaged design for C++ streams would put the stream objects
>on the right, so that one could design object methods that accept the
>stream, not the stream accepting the objects.
>
>Of course, you can still do this, if you want, so the syntax becomes
>
> my_object >> cout;
>
>which is preferrable.
The problem with this scheme is that chaining of output using '>>' and
'<<' is impossible, since the shift operators are left-associative.
Even if they were right-associative, your output would appear in reverse
order from how it was specified on the program line - might be good for
writing an English-to-Hebrew translator :-), but not so good for the more
common case.
This is a case where C compatibility reared its ugly head and trumped
other solutions that might well have looked nicer.
>The afterthought was the overloading for arbitrary objects. That is why it's
>awkward to do, with anti-object-oriented crap like non-member friend functions.
C++ is not a solely object-oriented language, hence being "OO-pure" was
not an overriding factor in its design.
--
- Don Waugaman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) O- _|_ Will pun
Web Page: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/dpw/ | for food
In the Sonoran Desert, where we say: "It's a dry heat..." | <><
If you live to the age of a hundred you have it made because very few
people die past the age of a hundred. -- George Burns
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,comp.unix.aix
Subject: Re: Linux on RS/6000
Date: 1 Sep 1999 04:38:26 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Dave Marquardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> There's a company called Yellow Dog that's selling Linux for RS/6000.
All RS/6000's are not created equal -- it is really a brand name, not a
model number. Yellow Dog Linux claims to run on two of IBM's
PowerPC-604e/PCI-based models: the 43P-150 and the F50. There are a
*lot* of unsupported models -- some higher-end, a couple lower-end, and
lots obsolete. Among the lower-end/obsolete models are a couple with
PCI busses but most have Micro Channel, and anything more than about
four years old has POWER or POWER2 chips in them rather than PowerPC.
Now I doubt the Linux PPC folks are interested in trying to write
support for either MCA or non-PowerPC RS/6000's, which account for
many, many old IBM boxes out there.
[Hmmm, when will Linux/PPC start supporting AS/400...?]
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Initial Linux System Installation
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:49:25 +0100
Hello,
I am trying to create a small Linux system from scratch, starting
with the C library, and then adding in the compiler. I can then start
compiling the other few programs I need. The reason for this is to create
a system that is as small and as tidy as possible. Although I am using a
very hacked version of RedHat 5.1, I don't like the way most distributions
fill my hard drive with stuff I don't want.
My problem is getting the initial C library and C compiler to work. What
order should I compile GCC (or egcs?) and GLIBC? I can compile initial
things on my current system and then copy them across to the new (blank)
partition to start creating the system. Is there any documentation
available on this sort of thing? Most docs assume you use a distribution.
I've got quite a lot working using bits and pieces of compiled substance
from my RedHat system, but I really want to compile *everything* for the
new system.
This must be done to create all new Linux distributions, but I can't work
it out.
Tried using --prefix=/mnt/newdist for glibc, but it doesn't seem to like
it. Do I need to get into cross compilers (whatever they are)?
Thanks for your help. I'm not a newbie to Linux, but thought that as I've
been wasting so much time trying to work this one out, someone else ought
to know!
Regards,
Matthew
==================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The optimization debate (was: why not C++?)
Date: 1 Sep 1999 16:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 04:19:11 GMT,
Stephen E. Halpin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:18:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
>wrote:
>>Once optimized once, it's harder to optimize the code again.
>
>If this werent true, all processes would converge to O(1),
>and all data sets would compress to a single bit. Ultimately
>there is a minimum amount of work that has to be done to
>perform every task, and you cant optimize a process beyond
>that minimum. Its not unusual or unexpected for this bound
>to be approached asymptotically. Outside a particular context,
>you cant generalize this to imply when any optimization may be
>made to have the best chance to achieve that minimum, and
>indeed, poor system design can prevent later optimizations
>from being effective without redesigning the whole system.
Wow, ten lines that basically repeats what was said in one line. Only
on USENET. ;)
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
Eschew obfuscation. ~ ()>()
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Sei BRAVO a programmare?
Date: 1 Sep 1999 17:50:17 GMT
Matrice srl ricerca collaboratori in ambito programmazione
C/C++ su Linux e/o Windows NT per la sua sede di Milano.
Sono gradite precedenti esperienze con Apache e Mysql,
trattamento CGI e Perl.
L'ambiente di lavoro e' giovane, stimolante, con ampie
risorse a disposizione per posizionarsi all'avanguardia
nella programmazione di software per l'interazione via
Internet e via telefono con basi di dati e sistemi di
comunicazione (fax, telefonia, SMS, email, web, news, etc).
In Matrice non guardiamo alla forma, ma alla sostanza:
se vuoi essere al bordo avanzato delle tecnologie, se
le sfide ti interessano, se non hai paura di imparare
nuove tecniche, vieni a lavorare con noi.
Si prega rispondere via mail a:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Klaus Schneider)
Subject: Re: Initial Linux System Installation
Date: 1 Sep 1999 17:28:11 GMT
Matthew ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Hello,
> I am trying to create a small Linux system from scratch, starting
> with the C library, and then adding in the compiler. I can then start
> compiling the other few programs I need. The reason for this is to create
> a system that is as small and as tidy as possible. Although I am using a
> very hacked version of RedHat 5.1, I don't like the way most distributions
> fill my hard drive with stuff I don't want.
> My problem is getting the initial C library and C compiler to work. What
> order should I compile GCC (or egcs?) and GLIBC? I can compile initial
> things on my current system and then copy them across to the new (blank)
> partition to start creating the system. Is there any documentation
> available on this sort of thing? Most docs assume you use a distribution.
> I've got quite a lot working using bits and pieces of compiled substance
> from my RedHat system, but I really want to compile *everything* for the
> new system.
> This must be done to create all new Linux distributions, but I can't work
> it out.
> Tried using --prefix=/mnt/newdist for glibc, but it doesn't seem to like
> it. Do I need to get into cross compilers (whatever they are)?
> Thanks for your help. I'm not a newbie to Linux, but thought that as I've
> been wasting so much time trying to work this one out, someone else ought
> to know!
Me and a friend are doing just the same at the moment; we too don't like
that all these distributions are so slow and huge, and sometimes hacked
versions.
Now, what we did was to compile the newest compiler and binutils to use
on the distribution system (in your case RedHat). Then, we compiled glibc
kernel and the most essential programs using that self-compiled compiler
and binutils. These were copied onto a new, clean partition.
But however, you cannot give --prefix=/mnt/newdist because some programs
link the destination of some files into themselves, and if you boot
your new system, /mnt/newdist/... won't work anymore. Instead, we configured
with --prefix=/usr (or whatever you need) and compiled. To install,
you can use
make install prefix=/mnt/newdist/usr exec_prefix=/mnt/newdist/usr
This will override the values of the make-variables recursively
during installation.
If you wish, we probably can give you some documentation of our
work, and we also could cooperate on the work.
Regards,
Klaus
------------------------------
From: "Ben Gunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Disabling control-alt-delete from a program
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:48:22 -0400
In /etc/inittab, there's a line like this:
# Trap CTRL-ALT-DELETE
ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t3 -r now
I think commenting that line out and running "init q" will have the effect
you're looking for.
-Ben
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Can someone explain how to disable the console control-alt-del key sequence
>so that if an important program is running some bozo can't reboot the
>machine short of doing a hardware reset. I realise the program will have
>to be setuid root but thats not a problem. I know its possible since the
>XF86 server accomplishes it somehow (though I've never understood why it
>bothered)
>
>NJR
------------------------------
From: Bill Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:05:26 -0300
Hi:
Sorry if I'm repeating myself, my newsreader seemed to gag and I don't
know whether my first version of this went anywhere...
On 31 Aug 1999, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> [* I can't think of any paradoxes that are not self-referential. Anyone? ]
Well, ferinstance, Russell's famous "king of France" paradox from his 1905
paper "On Denoting".
Consider the statement "The present King of France is bald." If I
examine the set of all bald things in the universe, the present king of
France is not among them. Therefore the statement is false. By the Law
of the Excluded Middle, the statement "The present king of France is not
bald" must be true. But if I examine the set of all hirsute things in
the universe, the present king of France is not there, either. Ergo the
second statement is false, and so the present king of France must be
bald, so the first statement must be true... (Russell added that
Hegelians, who always love a synthesis, would conclude that the present
king of France must wear a wig.)
I don't see the "self-reference" there.
Of course, these types of paradox that arise from denotational failure
can be resolved. It can be shown that, under certain semantic models,
denotational failure is just a special case of sortal incorrectness (or
"category mistake"), and so both statements are meaningless and have no
truth value.
-- Bill
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.powerpc,comp.unix.aix
Subject: Re: Linux on RS/6000
Date: 1 Sep 1999 15:27:52 GMT
In comp.unix.aix Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Dave Marquardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>> There's a company called Yellow Dog that's selling Linux for RS/6000.
> [Hmmm, when will Linux/PPC start supporting AS/400...?]
Well, take a look at:
http://users.snip.net/~gbooker/as400.htm
My phonecompany offered me a linux compatible ISDN telephone the
other day - I dunno which one is weirder ;)
--
Ole Jakob Skjelten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) www.pvv.org/~olesk
Systemspesialist, AIX
Bull AS, Fyrstikkalleen 3A, PB 6144 Etterstad, 0602 Oslo, Norway
Tlf (+47) 22575777(w) / 91820113(m).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Where can I find autotools to download??
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:31:44 GMT
The subject is the question I have.
Thanks in advance
Ventura
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development.system) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Development-System Digest
******************************
