Linux-Development-Sys Digest #169, Volume #7 Tue, 7 Sep 99 23:14:58 EDT
Contents:
Re: glibc-2.1.2 (Paul Kimoto)
Re: Richards Stevens died (Josh Stern)
Re: Max threads and TCP connections? (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: Struct packet_type(Question) (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: Shutdown Problem (Graffiti)
Re: Max threads and TCP connections? (David Schwartz)
Re: network block device -- zero bytes? (Peter T. Breuer)
Re: My opinion on TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
Re: The conceptual sandbox? ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
glibc-2.1.2 (A Guy Called Tyketto)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
acurate timing (Virginie Galtier)
Re: Development documentation Where to start? (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Nicholas Dronen)
survey linux project. ("Kim,Taesung")
Are you my heart's desire? 22796 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs? (Christopher Browne)
Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs? (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: glibc-2.1.2
Date: 7 Sep 1999 18:57:00 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> The announcement has been send - as usual - to linux-gcc@vger and
> libc-alpha. You can check the mail archives (the later via
> http://sourceware.cygnus.com/glibc).
It says
: In case you decide to compile glibc yourself you need to read the file
: INSTALL. It will explain among other things which tools are
: necessary. The most important one is the compiler. Although other
: versions might work it is recommended to get gcc 2.96.
Should this say "gcc 2.95"? I got no enlightenment from reading INSTALL,
which seems not to know of anything newer than egcs-1.1.1. (I used the
glibc patch file to update my source tree.)
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.programmer,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Richards Stevens died
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Josh Stern)
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:57:49 GMT
>What tragic news. I feel like we should do something in his memory.
Someone indicated on /. that Habitat for Humanity is his favorite/designated
charity (not sure which sense was meant).
- Josh
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: Max threads and TCP connections?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:08:26 GMT
On Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:26:37 GMT, No Spam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So 1 million of these suckers cohabitating on one machine (hopefully)
>will eat how much memory? Does linux kernel create thread to handle
>each TCP connection?
Absolutely not. The whole TCP stack is purely driven by interrupts from below
and by system calls from above. That is to say, timer interrupts and interrupts
from network device drivers.
>what about timers for handling the TCP protocol
>itself.
My guess is that delivering timers to one million connection instances
is going to be somewhat CPU intensive.
>Then the big one, I essentailly *can't* simply create a thread
>or process to handle each connection do to the shear number. So is
>there a way to have an ultra light chunk of C code sit on top of each
>connection (perhaps one glorious process with a magic TCPIN and TCPOUT
>function) and process incoming data and outgoing data basically in a
>callback from TCP without going through thread or other sychronization
>object overhead?
Not easily without hacking apart the TCP code. The protocol stack uses
callbacks internally, but does not provide callback notification to the
outside. It wakes up tasks that are blocked in a poll, read or what
have you.
You can do the equivalent of a poll within the kernel. Look at how poll works
and do the registration yourself. You have somewhat more flexibility than a
user-space poll because you don't have to work with the poll() interface but
directly with the lower-level primitives used by the poll and select
implementations.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: Struct packet_type(Question)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:21:22 GMT
On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:28:22 +0200, Fernando Ortega Bellosta
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In "net/core/dev.c" are defined two packet_type structs(ptype_all &
>ptype_base[16]). What are these structs used for?
>I suppose that they are used to kick the Ip datagrams up, is that right?.
>What is the different between them?
Protocol modules above the device layer can register ``taps'' for packets of
various types. Suppose that you have a module that only wants to get IP
packets. So you register for that type. Then you are given packets of that type
only, instead of having to do the rejecting yourself. Of course, there is a
way to register for all packets.
>The second question is about the device buffers, there are three priority
>buffers per device, so is it true that all the queued packets should be in
>one of these buffers?
>In such case, what is the meaning of the queue "sk->write_queue" of the
>sock struct.
It is a queue of data queued for transmission on a *socket*. Do not confuse
sockets and devices. They are on different levels.
>When do I queue in the sk->write_queue and when in the device queues.
It's the job of the protocol to queue into the socket write queue. Unless
you are doing protocol development, you shouldn't worry about it.
Each driver has a single transmit queue. The queue is managed by the generic
device ``base class'' code, so again, you don't have to worry about it.
A Linux network driver is not required to do any queuing of its own; in
fact, this is discouraged since excessive queuing can confuse protocols.
For received packets, there is a global receive queue. You don't have to worry
about it; again, it is managed by the device generic code. Your driver just
has to call netif_rx() to pass the packets upward.
------------------------------
From: Graffiti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Shutdown Problem
Date: 7 Sep 1999 11:32:54 -0700
In article <7r1moj$jhk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>There's /tmp and there's /var/tmp and some packages prefer to use $HOME
>as a simple way to avoid temp races, but no software should use
>anything else. When I find software that uses another location (like
>the 2-D CAD package CCDraft for AIX/HP-UX) I do the symlink thing.
<RANT>
What really pisses me off is that most software continue to use /tmp or
$HOME/.app-name instead of $TMPDIR. $TMPDIR isn't even "standard" on
lynx. It has $LYNXTMPDIR, which can be set to $TMPDIR in the lynx.cfg
file.
</RANT>
I've been considering chmod'ing /tmp to 0 and seeing what breaks, but the
amount of time that'll take is daunting. Hopefully, people will get around
to doing that before I do and start submitting patches... *hint,hint* :-)
-- DN
------------------------------
From: David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Max threads and TCP connections?
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:50:40 -0700
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> What task cannot be solved without requiring hundreds of threads on one
> machine?
A web server that gets all its pages from NFS servers mounted over
potentially unreliable WAN links. Even then, it may well be better to
use non-blocking reads -- the problem is knowing when to do them.
DS
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter T. Breuer)
Subject: Re: network block device -- zero bytes?
Date: 7 Sep 1999 23:26:43 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ted Pavlic ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I'm trying to use a network block device currently. I've compiled NBD
: support into my 2.2.12 client machine. I'm using the latest (so far as I can
: tell) server and client. On my server machine I'm loading nbd-server from
Well ... I have newer ones, but they've branched off from Pavels and won't be
available for another few months under NDA, then they'll be released as
GPL.
: inetd. I am currently trying to connect to the server on the command line of
: my client machine using the nbd-client. Every time I try to connect the
: client to the server, the client reports:
: Negotiation: ..size = 0
Yes, well, the server told it zero. That;s bad. Add the �ource size in
bytes explicitly on the server command line and see if that makes a
difference.
: And nothing in the log file. The server reports this in the logfile:
: (daemon.log and info.log)
: Sep 7 16:21:10 nw02 nbd-server[18803]: connect from 216.69.192.201
: Sep 7 16:21:10 nw02 nbd_server[18803]: connect from 216.69.192.201,
: assigned file is /dev/sda1
: Sep 7 16:21:10 nw02 nbd_server[18803]: size of exported file/device is 0
Well, well. The server even THINKS it's zero.
: The device I'm trying to export is not zero bytes.
Aha! Device!
: /dev/sda1 1 64 514048+ 83 Linux
Can it export devices? The original exported only files. I sent pavel
a code fragment to make it export block devices as well, but the
crucial thing in the fragment (I don't know if he patched it in, but I
think he did) was that it used an ioctl to get the device size. Maybe
it;s not implemented on scsi disks?
Tell you what .. scan the server code and towards the end (if memory
serves) you should find the routine that detects the size. It may even
be in main. You should see that it calls lseek first to get to the end,
and if lseek isn;t supported, it calls an ioctl. Check the ioctl name.
Then see if you can spot that IOCTL in the scsi code. Heck. Just strace
the server and see what the reply to the ioctl is.
: How come both the client and the server keep reporting it as zero bytes? All
The server does. The client believes.
: programs on the client machine report it (/dev/nd0) as a zero-byte device as
: well.
They would.
: Any ideas? Is there more information I can give that would help?
Add the size of the exported device explicitly. Also talk to pavel
about it. I don't run 2.2.*.
: Thanks for your help. All the best --
: Ted
--
Peter T. Breuer
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: My opinion on TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 7 Sep 1999 18:58:02 GMT
In comp.os.misc M van Rooij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: I just skimped over the website describing the goals of Tao.
hehehe "skimped"? yes many people I run into like to "skimp"
: They look like a real challenge to me. One thing is clear (to me at least),
: you guys have a long road ahead getting anywhere.
rome wasn't built in a day. linux was not built in a day.
when was linus' 1st post to Usenet anyway? it was close to
7 years or so to the current date. I am in it for the long
haul. the converse of that is that I don't expect to make
significant progress in the short term, and am not going
to "beat my brains out" (to borrow an americanism) trying to do so.
: In fact, I'm (too) expressing my ideas into code. The project is called
: Autonomous Actors. I hope to present the code (portions that is) to you
: guys. For me, that provides a more accessible way of debating whats right
: and wrong....
if it is related to virus-proofing & virtual machines I'd say
it is highly relevant to the list, and usig the editorial "we",
we would love to have you sign up & describe your progress.
I personally will tend to comment on most threads for feedback.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: The conceptual sandbox?
Date: 7 Sep 1999 19:19:00 GMT
In comp.os.misc Jonathan Guthrie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: An example from my life might prove illustrative:
: I'm an idea person.
me too. not to many of us in the world are there?
I am not asking for everyone to be idea people. I am
asking for miscellaneous snipers on Usenet
to stop being so hostile & acrimonious towards them.
tx. for the support.
any other "idea people"? sign up for the mailing list
and we will all commiserate together. misery loves
company. haha.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A Guy Called Tyketto)
Subject: glibc-2.1.2
Date: 7 Sep 1999 14:02:01 -0500
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Hash: SHA1
I see the full release of glibc-2.1.2 is now on egcs.cygnus.com,
and alpha.gnu.org. I've found no docs, or announcements that it has been
released (granted it was Labour Day here in the US on Monday).. Anyone
tried this yet? Any thoughts on stability? bugs? fixes?
BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator, | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WebMaster, NewsMaster.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.omnilinx.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024/E9DF4D85 67 6B 33 D0 B9 95 F4 37 4B D1 CE BD 48 B0 06 93
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------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 7 Sep 1999 19:01:23 GMT
In comp.os.misc Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: The fact that Red Hat is raking it in off the sweat of volunteers like
: me does not bother me in the least.
it does me.. & many others..
a pity there is no way to create a capitalistically supported
open source project. actually I think there may be such a way.
one way is to keep track of who has contributed what from
the very beginning, and have an IPO for a sort of "virtual
company" composed of all the inhabitants & contributors.
: No loss to me, after all.
any work without recompense is a loss in some ways imho.
sometimes the recompense is more intangible, like having
the code available. but let us all agree the most tangible
recompense of all is cash.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: Virginie Galtier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: acurate timing
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:11:05 -0400
Hi
Is it possible to know the time spent by a process into the processor
with a better accuracy than jiffies (100 jiffies in one second)?
Virginie
------------------------------
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Development documentation Where to start?
Date: 07 Sep 1999 17:03:32 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> "S" == Simon Kwan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
S> Specifically, at this stage, where is the documentation for
S> a. the kernel driver b. Linux OS level API (Is there an
S> tutorial and ref. on those CD or downloadable from WEB?)
S> c. Linux shell command (e.g mv, ls. The on line man is
S> running. Any better tutorial?)
Basically, with only 72 hours experience, and that in Mandrake, and
considering you are sorting out basic shell commands, are you *sure*
you want the kernel driver API? ;)
But, your wish is my command:
http://amelia.db.erau.edu/Excite/AT-LDPquery.html
this will search the entire LDP for you. Happy hunting!
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Telecom Services : Internet Consulting : http://www.teledyn.com
Linux/GNU Education Group: http://www.egroups.com/group/linux-education/
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nicholas Dronen)
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:26:25 GMT
EdToy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: In article <7qvj4a$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
: > note above I did not declare anything "true by fiat". I proposed
: > an alternative to existing dogma & conventional wisdom. I am
: > saying, "imagine a universe exists in which you are not confined to
: > the boxes you now believe you are confined within"<g>
: Well don't let your head swell up too much because almost any comp sci
: student could have come up with (and they probably have) with your subset
: of suggestions (and many others too). You may think that you're thinking
: "outside of the box" but indeed you've simply followed obvious paths of
: the "existing dogma & conventional wisdom". You may have done some
: _extrapolation_, but I'd have to read your ideas again to be sure. If
: you want to "see" outside of the box, you'll have to step back a "wee"
: bit further. Again, I believe the proof is in the doing, not in the
: dreaming, and using that experience to _develop_ your preliminary ideas
: into a vision. Not that dreaming doesn't have any merit, just that it's
: on par with masturbation.
Where's the proof that your Panglossian CreateProcess is better than fork?
------------------------------
From: "Kim,Taesung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,linux.dev.gcc,linux.dev.kernel,linux.dev.x11
Subject: survey linux project.
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:09:07 +0900
Hello!
We( I and my friends) have plan to make soem application on linux.
First of all, we want to survey on going project on linux.
We want to know any kind of projects about linux.
Where can we find?
Thanks for regard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Are you my heart's desire? 22796
Date: Tuesday, 07 Sep 1999 18:23:27 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 02:08:24 GMT
On Mon, 06 Sep 1999 19:23:42 +0200, Guido Fiala <@s.neticnospam.de>
wrote
>EROS - recently mentioned in Kernel-Traffic
>(http://renta.net/org/opensrc/kt/www/kt19990701_25.html#4)
>
>The concept sounds really promisful, and maybe some of the ideas
>should be integrated already in linux. Especially the fsck-story
>(http://www.eros-os.org/project/novelty.html) gives me some points.
>
>Would'nt it be good to make the filesystem persistent in the sense of
>EROS, implementing the something like the mentionend checkpoint
>mechanism? After a powerfail, the fsck would know exactly which
>directory to check and repair and would not have to test the entire
>drive.
>
>Making anything persistent is sure much more work, and will result in
>rewrite almost anything. AFAIK, the problem of hardware persistency
>isn't solved too in EROS so far.
The closest equivalent to the EROS/KeyKOS notion of "persistency"
would be that of filesystem journalling, for which at least three
independent implementations are under way for Linux 2.3 right now.
The schemes would, however, only be analagous in the sense that they
would provide some form of persistent store, the mechanisms used to
implement it being completely different.
--
Why are people born? Why do they die? Why do they spend so much of the
intervening time wearing digital watches?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/oses.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 02:08:23 GMT
On 7 Sep 1999 02:52:37 GMT, David T. Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> ... Journalled filesystems are being developed for Linux (sct
>> was working on one, don't know where he's at at this point) and are
>> generally considered a Good Idea, except that they're (inherently?)
>> somewhat slow for reading, which in many cases represents a lot more
>> filesystem activity than writing.
>
>Reiserfs journalling is being released as beta at the Kongress,
>and ext3 with journalling is also being released. SCT is being
>low key, and the reiserfs team is shouting it from the rooftops.
>
>AFAIK, xfs is still a bunch of half-finished code and press
>releases. But it really looks like 2.5 will bring THREE NEW
>JOURNALLED filesystems to linux.
SCT sent out a note yesterday indicating that he now has a patch for
"ext3" that he is willing to start having people try out.
There is some ambiguity at this point as to just how much stuff is
getting journalled; apparently keeping data/metadata in sync in a
guaranteed-to-be-correct manner is a Bit Of A Challenge.
--
Real Programmers are surprised when the odometers in their cars don't
turn from 99999 to A0000.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
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