Linux-Development-Sys Digest #174, Volume #7 Thu, 9 Sep 99 01:14:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: IDE for c++ dev? (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Shutdown Problem (Victor Wagner)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS ("Vladimir Z. Nuri")
kernel linking error (get_cached_page) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: More kind words from M$. (Dave Newton)
Re: Scheduling in Linux (ellis)
Embedded X-server anyone ? ? (Nash Aragam)
Re: make linux disk only one ("B.Becking")
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Peter Samuelson)
Re: Shutdown Problem (Peter Samuelson)
Re: increasing process limits (Kaz Kylheku)
select() and write descriptors ("Bigwoof!")
Re: High load average, low cpu usage (David Schwartz)
Re: select() and write descriptors (Kaz Kylheku)
Re: increasing process limits (David Schwartz)
Re: Where do I get the man pages that tell about System Calls. (Josef Moellers)
Re: watchdog - multiple instances ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux - Memory model / protection scheme (David Schwartz)
Re: TAO: the ultimate OS (Peter Samuelson)
Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs? (Peter Samuelson)
mallopt for linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: IDE for c++ dev?
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 08 Sep 1999 18:21:54 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Toby Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Warren Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Well - I'd disagree about the way you describe "intuitive". To me an
> > editor is intuitive if by knowing the basic manipulations and commands
> > of the editor, I can find out how to do things by making a guess about
>
> Oh well, here goes, ;-) From what I have heard, emacs is a VERY powerful
> editor, however, most of us will never know because we would rather pay
> a few hundred dollars and get a perhaps almost as powerful editor that
> one can actually use. Personally I have messed with emacs a few times
> and I admit each time I can get a little more out of it than before. For
> example I can (I think) reliably open and save a file in emacs! ;-)
i admit. it can be very hard. imagine the trouble i have taking the
mouse to `files' on the menu at the top of emacs and then dragging it
down to where it says `open file'. i mean, who would have thought of
doing *that*?!?!?!?!
saving involves taking a mouse and going to `files' (again) and using
`save buffer'.
i need to scroll. i see i've got scroll bars and guess what, i can
scroll! moreover page-up and page-down seem to do the right thing.
i need to move the cursor. i've got arrow keys. i see that the mouse
will do this too. cut and paste seems to be working with the mouse
just like every other x program. oh yeah, there's that `edit' field
in the menubar. guess what, i see cut copy paste &c all living there!
customization? it's all there under `help' customize.
> Nonetheless, emacs is certainly the MOST cryptic and difficult piece of
> software that I have encountered in my 14 years of programming.
14 years ago i ditched edlin for emacs. i haven't looked back since.
> So
> be it, plenty of people have testified that they find emacs to be
> well worth the time it took to learn to use it. What puzzles and
> bothers me is why SO many emacs fans bristle and shout otherwise when
> ANYONE states the obvious, that emacs is EXTREMELY difficult to use.
you seem to be describing vi and its users.
> They remind me of republicans trying to justify the drug war. ;-)
> Some things are simple facts, and by denying that emacs is extremely
> cryptic, you are simply destroying your own credibility and doing NOTHING
> to win people over to the use of emacs. If you like emacs, use it, I am
> SURE it is a very powerful editor. But why in the world do you
> attempt repeatedly to deny that it is also an extremely cryptic
> editor, when virtually ANYONE who has attempted to use it can see
> otherwise?
maybe because it's obvious you haven't tried emacs in x in last 5 years?
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Shutdown Problem
Date: 8 Sep 1999 23:59:13 +0400
In comp.os.linux.development.apps Graffiti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: <RANT>
: What really pisses me off is that most software continue to use /tmp or
: $HOME/.app-name instead of $TMPDIR. $TMPDIR isn't even "standard" on
: lynx. It has $LYNXTMPDIR, which can be set to $TMPDIR in the lynx.cfg
: file.
: </RANT>
: I've been considering chmod'ing /tmp to 0 and seeing what breaks, but the
: amount of time that'll take is daunting. Hopefully, people will get around
: to doing that before I do and start submitting patches... *hint,hint* :-)
Try mount /tmp with noexec option. (seems sensible security precaution,
isn't it?) and see what breaks...
orainst breaks, but there is no problem - you don't install Oracle every
day, so you may remount /tmp just for installing Oracle.
But mc breaks - it executes external viewers from .mc/ext by creating
and running scripts in /tmp. It is much worse.
So, never never run mc as root if there are another users on machine.
--
========================================================
Victor Wagner @ home = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't answer questions by private E-Mail from this address.
------------------------------
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 7 Sep 1999 19:15:08 GMT
In comp.os.misc Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Well, that is a proof theoretic view (you say it a formal system of
: rules that are sound with respect to a semantic model, the latter
: being ... ?).
ok, let me say I agree you have a correct proof, given the
axioms you have chosen. I am stating that I have a different
set of axioms in which the proof is not valid and that
moreover, these axioms more closely reflect underlying
reality of computation or a security system.
: My "axiom" here is that if you have a code listing of a program (virus
: checker), you can execute it, either by compiling it and executing it,
: copying an already compiled copy and executing that, or copying the code
: verbatim into your program and recompiling it, and executing that, etc.
: etc, or calling the compiled code as a subroutine, after relinking.
in my axiom system, the code you copy is going to call subroutines,
and my axioms consider the concept of subroutines that can
be only executed in certain contexts or environments & not in
others. you copy your code, and it may have a subroutine call
"outside of the box" (sandbox) which my axioms bar.
again.. I agree you have a valid proof
for what I will label (perhaps unfairly you will surely
assert) a "naive" set of axioms. that is, using
a naive set of axioms, it is possible to prove
"there are no perfect virus checkers"
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
state of the art OS research email http://www.egroups.com/groups/os-edge/
Tao OS / Taos / the transcendental OS http://www8.pair.com/mnajtiv/tao.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: kernel linking error (get_cached_page)
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:24:27 GMT
Hi,
I got problem building kernel 2.3.15 or 2.3.16 with egcs-2.91.66 and
GNU ld version 2.9.1 (with BFD 2.9.1.0.23), got the following errors,
could someone give me a hint? Thanks
Wayne
....
-o vmlinux
fs/filesystems.a(smbfs.o): In function `smb_get_dircache':
smbfs.o(.text+0x34d1): undefined reference to `get_cached_page'
smbfs.o(.text+0x3524): undefined reference to `get_cached_page'
fs/filesystems.a(smbfs.o): In function `smb_add_to_cache':
smbfs.o(.text+0x36d2): undefined reference to `get_cached_page'
make: *** [vmlinux] Error 1
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: More kind words from M$.
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:00:32 GMT
Phil Howard wrote:
> The notation scheme results in "sz" used for many names (null
> terminated strings). The Hungarian language itself has many words
> and names with "sz". I would bet this had an influence, as it would
> have made the variable names kinda look like some form of Hungarian
> prose to someone who did not know Hungarian, but noted all the "sz"
> strings around.
Perhaps, but I'll stick with the "It's a _s_tring, and it's an
ASCII_Z_ string." There are probably a few words that begin with
'n' too, but I doubt people will argue that that's why i_n_tegers
are prefixed with it.
Dave
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ellis)
Subject: Re: Scheduling in Linux
Date: 9 Sep 1999 00:12:41 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Sandeep Jain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I wanted to know about the scheduling policy beng used in Linux.
>Can anyone help?
Have you considered reading the source?
--
http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/linux.html
------------------------------
From: Nash Aragam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.windows.x,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot
Subject: Embedded X-server anyone ? ?
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:16:09 -0400
Hi,
Am lookin' for any/all info that might be available on the
idea/concept/design/implementation of a SMALL_FOOTPRINT X-server for use
in embedded OSs and embedded/handheld palmtops. Actually, a
mono-chromatic (mfb and/or cfb8 only) Display Server would be a better
technical description, but, the same result could be achieved via
heavy-pruning and porting of the existing XFree86 or the general
X-distribution code (Linux is one of my target OS's)....
Please send me any info and/or pointers....Thanks very much in advance,
Nash Aragam
Tech-Source Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(407)262-7100
------------------------------
From: "B.Becking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: make linux disk only one
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:04:42 +0200
>Manut wrote:
>>
>> who recommend to me about seft make linux disk ?
>> thank you.
>
>I hate to be chauvinistic about my native tongue, but a question
>posted in a garbled form of English is not going to be understandable
>to anyone, native English speaker or not. If one does not know
>much English, it might be better to post the question in one's
>native language and hope a speaker of that language is reading
>the newsgroup.
>
>--
>
>Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
Manut's english isnt to good, true, but does that mean he should refrain
from using english ?? Your native tongue is, de facto, the lingua franca of
the internet, and thats precisely the reason you cant go around telling
people not to use it (or at least try to use it). If you cant be bothered,
thats fine, just dont answer.
Boudewijn
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 8 Sep 1999 21:17:16 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Vladimir Z. Nuri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> any work without recompense is a loss in some ways imho. sometimes
> the recompense is more intangible, like having the code available.
> but let us all agree the most tangible recompense of all is cash.
Perhaps. But strcmp("most tangible", "best") != 0.
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Shutdown Problem
Date: 8 Sep 1999 21:11:36 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Graffiti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> I've been considering chmod'ing /tmp to 0 and seeing what breaks, but
> the amount of time that'll take is daunting. Hopefully, people will
> get around to doing that before I do and start submitting
> patches... *hint,hint* :-)
Just use `strings' to search through /usr/bin for "/tmp" and "TMPDIR".
Shouldn't be hard. Hmmmm.... /usr/bin on my Debian box seems to refer
to "/tmp" in:
Mail Pnews a2ps any2pnm asciiview autoupdate bash bison bug c2ph
calendar cancel cdtool ci co compose cpp crontab cvs debian-mirrors
dialog diffstat dig dnsquery elvis-tiny fax2ps fixnt fixps floppyd
ftp gcc glibcbug gnuclient grops gs gview gvim gzexe hdfed host inews
ispell joe lorder lp lpq lpr lprm lpstat lynx mail mailto mailx make
make-ssh-known-hosts make_printerdef make_smbcodepage mbadblocks
mtools mirror mkmanifest mpack mpage mpartition mread munpack mutt
mzip newsetup nmblookup nslookup nvi objdump patch pdiff perlbug
perlcc perldoc pftp pgp pnmindex print procmail protoize ps2epsi
psmandup psset pstruct rcs rcsclean rcsdiff rcsmerge rdist rdistd
refer rgview rgvim rwall s2p see showaudio showexternal showpartial
showpicture slogin smbclient smbmnt smbmount smbpasswd smbstatus
smbtorture smbumount sort splitmail ssh ssh-add ssh-agent ssh-keygen
syslinux sz tac testparm testprns texindex trn unprotoize unshar
update-menus vim vimtutor wall xemacs20 zcmp zdiff znew zsh
I didn't test for TMPDIR. Probably some of these are correctly only
using /tmp as a fallback.
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: increasing process limits
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 03:51:43 GMT
On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:46:38 -0700, David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You asked a question, and I gave you the correct answer. I'm sorry you
>don't like it. Free advice is seldom worth much more than you pay for
>it.
>
> My answer was not sarcastic, by the way. If you have a legitimate case
>where more than 100 threads are necessary, I would love to hear about
>it.
How about when you have to read 100 different files from 100 different NFS
servers over slow WAN links without blocking the process? ;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:00:46 +0800
From: "Bigwoof!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: select() and write descriptors
Hi,
when i use the select call to scan a list of read fds and write fds, the
call always seems to take a very long time to process the write fds.
i.e. select(&nfds, &rfds, &wfds, 0, something)
Why does it block so long on the write fds? does it take that long to
check if a socket is writable?
for instance, with the selct call checking both the read and write fds, i
get ~300-400 ms roundtrip time for pings. (i ran some kind of routin
solution in the middle of my network which uses the select call)
If i remove the write fds from the select call, i get a consistent
1.4-1.7 ms roundtrip ping.
Is this a known issue with write fds?
Thanks,
Rajesh
------------------------------
From: David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: High load average, low cpu usage
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:06:40 -0700
Sounds like all those tasks waiting for NFS data are pushing up the
load average. The CPU can't make the NFS data come in any faster. I'd
experiment with different NFS mount options to try to get some more
performance.
DS
Ole Jacob Taraldset wrote:
>
> I think maybe it has something to do with the /home partition being NFS
> mounted. Since NFS is implemented in kernel space in 2.2 is it possible
> that NFS is struggling and it doesn't show up as a process in top/ps? Is
> there some way to figure this out? I can't find anything except lines like
> these in "/var/log/messages":
>
> Jul 22 02:57:27 ojt kernel: __nfs_fhget: inode 0 busy, i_count=2,
> i_nlink=1
> Jul 22 02:57:27 ojt kernel: nfs_free_dentries: found //idar, d_count=0,
> hashed=1
> Jul 22 02:57:27 ojt kernel: nfs_dentry_delete: //idar: ino=0, count=2,
> nlink=1
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Ole Jacob
>
> On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Joseph Mack wrote:
>
> > Ole Jacob Taraldset wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a PII 450 MHz w/512 MB ram and a clean RedHat 6.0 w/updates .
> > > When I take a look at cpu usage i kpm/qps most of the cpu is idle
> > > (~85%), but load average reports around 2. Isn't load average a function
> > > of cpu usage (only, mostly)?
> >
> > This does sound a little unusual, however the load average is the number
> > of requests queued in the kernel. If the requests are to slow devices
> > (disks and modem lines are the worst) and the CPU is waiting for them
> > then you'll get high load averages and low CPU use
> >
> > Joe
> > --
> > Joseph Mack PhD, Senior Systems Engineer, Lockheed Martin
> > contractor to the National Environmental Supercomputer Center,
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ph# 919-541-0007, RTP, NC, USA
> >
>
> GexCon AS, Bergen, Norway <http://www.gexcon.com>
> Tel : +47 55574334 (office) +47 55558650 (home)
> Mob.tel. : +47 95080525 Fax : +47 55574331
> PGP key : <http://home.c2i.net/ojt/pgp.txt>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Subject: Re: select() and write descriptors
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 03:39:58 GMT
On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:00:46 +0800 , Bigwoof! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>when i use the select call to scan a list of read fds and write fds, the
>call always seems to take a very long time to process the write fds.
>
>i.e. select(&nfds, &rfds, &wfds, 0, something)
Umm, the first argument isn't a pointer, but an int. It must be one plus the
highest numbered descriptor that you want to check in any of your sets.
>
>Why does it block so long on the write fds? does it take that long to
>check if a socket is writable?
You should only select sockets for writability if you have pending data. You
see, sockets are write ready almost always! This means that select will return
immediately and you will end up calling it over and over again rapidly, wasting
CPU time.
In fact, the best strategy might be to simply dump your data into a
non-blocking socket. Only if it reports an error do you queue your data
and arrange to write-select the socket.
------------------------------
From: David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: increasing process limits
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:46:38 -0700
You asked a question, and I gave you the correct answer. I'm sorry you
don't like it. Free advice is seldom worth much more than you pay for
it.
My answer was not sarcastic, by the way. If you have a legitimate case
where more than 100 threads are necessary, I would love to hear about
it.
DS
Donald Setlur wrote:
>
> Thanks for your thought-provoking answer. How many problems have you solved
> in your life already ? Did school let out ?
>
> DS
>
> David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in article
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >
> > Redesign your program. I have never heard of a legitimate case where
> > more than 64 threads were needed.
> >
> > DS
> >
> > Donald Setlur wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a program written to create multiple threads which will be
> > > simultaneously active in the system.
> > >
> > > I am experiencing problems with creating more than 251 concurrent
> threads
> > > (probably the limit being 255 by default).
> > >
> > > Another event that I also notice is that at the time the program has
> 251
> > > threads, no other processes are allowed to exec.
> > >
> > > Will increasing the process limit help ? If so how can a get a quick
> > > cheatsheet to increase the number of allowable processes on the system
> ?
> > >
> > > I am using Redhat 5.* for a OS. Please let me know if there is some
> more
> > > details I need to supply to get an answer. Thanks in advance,
> >
------------------------------
From: Josef Moellers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where do I get the man pages that tell about System Calls.
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:32:25 +0200
Captain Panic wrote:
> =
> I have RedHat 6.0 and I am looking for the man pages that tell about al=
l the
> system calls such as "man 2 intro" and "man fork", etc. Any know what =
this
> package is called and or where I can get it? Thanks,
> Bri
[josef@xunil josef]$ cd /usr/man/man2
[josef@xunil man2]$ rpm -qf fork*
man-pages-1.23-3
'nuff?
Josef
-- =
PS Die hier dargestellte Meinung ist die persoenliche Meinung des
Autors!
PS This article reflects the author=B4s personal views only!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: watchdog - multiple instances
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:05:37 -0400
Oliver Lehm wrote:
>
> I need to check that different programs continue running. But by reading the
> sources of the watchdog driver I saw that only one open for the driver is
> possible.
> Is there an extension which allows mutiple instances (maybe a further layer
> above the watchdog driver).
If you need to check fairly frequently, semaphores work nicely. An
application increments a semaphore every N
milliseconds/seconds/minutes. Every 2N whatevers, a monitor process
checks each semaphore and zeroes out those that are non-zero. If it
finds a zero one, it takes whatever action is needed. It may restart
the process (after a kill to be safe), stop the whole system, trigger a
siren, or blow a fuse :-).
--
Larry Blanchard - please sterilize my address before replying
Homo Sapiens is a goal, not a description.
------------------------------
From: David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux - Memory model / protection scheme
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:57:27 -0700
Chris Butler wrote:
> This is wrong, actually. Every Linux process uses the same copy of libc in
> memory. However, processes cannot write to the libc pages, since they are
> setup with protections of read/execute only, and a write operation will
> cause a processor exception. Linux will receive this and send a SIGSEGV to
> the offending process.
Actually, self modifying code is perfectly legal. So even the code is
mapped read/write. However, it is copied on write, so if process
corrupted the libc code, it would wind up corrupting a copy that was
made just for the occasion.
DS
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: TAO: the ultimate OS
Date: 8 Sep 1999 22:57:58 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Vladimir Z. Nuri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> however I don't consider suggesting that someone has low imagination
> an "ad hominem attack".
I don't either, actually. That's why when I said "if xxx is construed
that way" or some such. I tried to phrase it carefully.
> it is an observation relevant to the debate. many programmers have
> low imagination. it can be a very pedestrian/mundane job. many
> programmers never are involved in higher level design problems in
> which the approach is not fixed & specified beforehand.
As may be. However, you cannot extrapolate from their job descriptions
that they have little imagination. You can only assume, unless you
know of some study somewhere which measured the imaginative capacities
of programmers and found them deficient compared to a control
population.
Also, it is not necessarily true that those who have carried on OS
research for the past however many years are of the same mindset as the
coders who just hammer out designs handed down from on high. I think
they're two somewhat different subsets of the "programmer" population.
> hmmm. I think the issue I raised was, can an OS be useful/helpful/
> pleasant to both the newbie/novice & professional/advanced. I think
> you are pulling a switcheroo on me.
Actually *I* agree that an OS can provide different sets of interfaces
to meet different needs. What I thought we were talking about was the
above but in context of your new hypothetical OS. Not quite the same
thing as I'll explain below.
> here are my assertions
> 1. an os is a set of features
> 2. those features can be accessed in different ways
> 3. some ways are useful/helpful/pleasant to the novice.
> others are for the experienced user.
> 4. an interface to the OS can be created which combines the
> two, such that neither group need be aware of the
> other's interface.
As those assertions stand, they're fine. However, we (the broader "we"
of this whole monstrous thread) were mainly arguing about the
feasiblility of constructing an OS in line with the goals you posted so
many weeks ago in your loose requirements document, as it were. The
requirement in question in this part of the thread, if I remember
correctly, had to do with intuitiveness or ease of use by novices, and
you seemed to be arguing that a *single* interface could be designed
that not only kept novices from shooting themselves in the foot but
allowed enough rope for advanced users to get their work done
unencumbered by intrusive sanity checks.
Now if you're talking about two *different* interfaces being designed,
one for the unwashed masses and one for me, that's a different matter.
That's like what Unix has, with GUI environments for those who like
them and with a killer command line for those of us who don't. But I
am still not convinced that I could *ever* like using a GUI without the
option of going back to the command line when I want to get something
done. There has been a lot of research into GUI design and some people
claim that it's possible to construct a GUI that will *replace* a
command line but I am very skeptical.
Not that you're necessarily talking about graphics versus text, I know,
but it sounded like you *were* going to force *one* interface and
paradigm onto everyone. And *that* is what I don't believe is
possible, for the reason I went over twice before.
> you call it opinion when I assert it is possible. well, why is it not
> opinion when you assert it is impossible?
I don't do much asserting of my own. I mostly give opinions and quote
or paraphrase others who know more of what they're talking about.
Others on this thread have given what look like opinions except that
they cite actual experience or research (which is just experience by
proxy) which gives those opinions more weight. That's the difference.
> hehehe "bald opinions".. perhaps this could all be easily resolved if
> we just found some Rogaine.
No, then you'd have hairy opinions, which might look nicer but wouldn't
really be that different....
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Samuelson)
Subject: Re: EROS, persistency, ext3fs?
Date: 8 Sep 1999 23:16:48 -0500
Reply-To: Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[unattributed sigquote of Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> Real Programmers are surprised when the odometers in their cars don't
> turn from 99999 to A0000.
Cute, but you can't mix hex with BCD. What happened to 9999A?
--
Peter Samuelson
<sampo.creighton.edu!psamuels>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: mallopt for linux
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:15:04 -0600
IRIX and Solaris have mallopt, an interesting function that enables one
to alter the behavior of malloc for efficient usage of memory. This
function is very useful while allocating and deallocating memory very
frequently as in a database. Is there an equivalent function in Linux?
cheers
-Ragu
------------------------------
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