Linux-Development-Sys Digest #733, Volume #7 Mon, 3 Apr 00 13:13:13 EDT
Contents:
Oops in ACPI/APM with TMC-T15VGF mobo (Tony Smith)
Re: Help with ostringstream... (Veksler Michael)
i need to redefine malloc() ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linkable executables? (Kalle Olavi Niemitalo)
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux (Moritz Franosch)
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux (q_49@hot###mail.com)
Re: linux pthreads problem on dual processor machine (Bonny Gijzen)
Re: linux pthreads problem on dual processor machine (Bonny Gijzen)
Parallel port programming... pins 12 and 13 not working (Stuart Hall)
Re: pthread help!!! (Kaz Kylheku)
Kernel Splash Screen? (James Moger)
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux (Grant Edwards)
Re: Large File Support (David E Allen)
RSVP and QoS (Pedro Monjo Florit)
Re: Kernel Splash Screen? (Andi Kleen)
Re: Help with ostringstream... (Don Waugaman)
Re: Partition Access (Peter Mardahl)
Finding virtual memory information in a kernel module (Doug Schulz)
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux (Pjtg0707)
How to decide a file is newly created? ("Weiguang Shi")
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:12:56 +0100
From: Tony Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Oops in ACPI/APM with TMC-T15VGF mobo
I've come across what appears to be a bug in the kernel. It's a minor
annoyance at best, but since it's me that it's annoying I'd like to get
it fixed. No idea where to start though, so any advice would be
appreciated.
I've got a TMC-T15VGF motherboard and whenever I halt my Mandrake
installation, I get the following Oops when it tries to power-down the
PC.
=======================================================================
Code: <1>Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address
00008875
current->tss.cr3 = 0b8df000, %cr3 = 0b8df000
*pde = 0000000
Oops: 0000
CPU: 0
EIP: 0010:[<c010acbe>]
EFLAGS: 00010083
eax: 00008875 ebx: 00000000 eex: 00000001 edx: cb767db8
esi: 0000002b edi: cb768000 ebp: cc000000 esp: cb767d40
ds: 0018 es:0018 ss: 0018
Process halt (pid: 818, process nr: 14, stackpage = cb767000)
Stack: 0000f000 cb767db8 00005307 67890000 0000f000 cb767db8
00005307 cc800000
00000086 00000001 c024cfa2 c010b7ed cb767db8 cb767db8
00005307 c010b7c4
c01e4558 c01e462d 0000f000 c0164acc cb766000 bfff8146
00000019 c00b9e00
Call Trace: [<cc800000>] [<c0108d17>] [<c0115b29>] [<c01096cc>]
[<c01162b1>] [<c01e642a>] [<c0178cc6>] [<c0110fcb>]
[<c01111e7>] [<c0135d1f>] [<c0112105>] [<c01282a1>]
[<c01125f2>] [<c0109834>]
Code: 8a 04 03 25 ff 00 00 00 43 50 68 50 45 1e c0 e8 fe ac 00 00
/etc/rc.d/rc0.d/S01halt: line 1: 818 Segmentation fault halt -f -i -d
-p
=======================================================================
Has this problem been seen before?
I dual-boot my PC, and the power-off on shutdown works fine under Win98
SE. I'm a reasonably experienced engineer, but not a kernel hacker, so
if there's anything I could do to provide further info, or to fix the
problem, please let me know.
Please could you reply by email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for your help.
Tony.
------------------------------
From: Veksler Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help with ostringstream...
Date: 3 Apr 2000 10:19:20 GMT
Michael A Uman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone know where in the Linux libraries the 'ostringstream' class
> is defined? I cannot find it in the GNU gcc include files.
>
> Please advise?
The stock libstdc++.a delivered with gcc-2.95.2 does not support
stringstream. You have two options:
1. Use the legacy strstream instead (be careful with the memory leak
pitfall of strstream::str() ).
2. Download the latest libstc++ v3, and use it instead. It is being
(re)written to conform to the recent ISO C++ standard.
Be careful, it is still in development.
Michael
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: i need to redefine malloc()
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:24:20 GMT
I am writing a simple thread library under Linux (glibc 2.1) which uses
SIGALRM to notify scheduler events.
Because malloc() uses data shared among threads, it must be made safe,
so that threads can use it un mutual exclusion. I want to redefine
malloc so that it works like:
...
P(malloc_sem);
result = original_malloc(size);
V(malloc_sem);
...
return(result);
where P and V are the functions I defined for mutual exclusion.
Such a function would have to be called nothing but 'malloc' itself,
since it could be used by pre-compiled objects (such as libraries) by
some of the threads.
How do I redefine malloc, still retaining the chance to call the
original one from within the redefined one? I was thinking something
like saving a pointer to the original malloc and use it in my version
which I would call 'malloc', but I don't exactly know how to avoid
pre-processor idiosincracies.
Malloc hooks are ineffective, because they force me to disable
scheduling events during a malloc execution. Could I perhaps
use__libc_malloc?
Any suggestion is welcome, possibly via e-mail.
Thanks in advance,
-- Tommaso Schiavinotto.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linkable executables?
Date: 03 Apr 2000 14:58:18 +0300
Brian Chin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I was wondering if there currently is anyway that you can create a .so
> which can be executed, or an executable which can be linked to.
The glibc2 .so file can be run as a program, so it is possible.
I don't know how it's done, though. :-) Perhaps you should look at
its source, the ld scripts in particular.
------------------------------
From: Moritz Franosch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: 03 Apr 2000 14:08:12 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Mardahl) writes:
> I think the safest/least effort thing to do is simply to generate a static ELF binary
> that works on the 2.2 series of kernels.
>
> That should work with every modern distribution. It's possible it may fail on some
> really, really old installations of Linux.
>
> A "better" thing to do might be to dynamically link your executable, BUT also make
> available ALL the libraries which may be needed dynamically. If the program finds
> itself being installed on a system without the needed libraries, have your installer
> put in the needed libraries too.
I totally agree.
If your (dynamically linked) program does not work with the dynamic
link libraries on the customer's system, this can have several reasons:
1. The library you linked against is not installed on your customer's
system.
2. You get "unresolved symbols" because of an incompatibility.
3. Your program just crashes randomly because of differences between
the dynamic link libraries.
You should perhaps first try to link your program dynamically against
the customer's libraries. If that fails (check the output of 'ldd -r',
this prevents issues 1. and 2.), your installation routine should
install your versions of the dynamic libraries.
Because of 3., advanced customers should also have the choice between
your and their own versions of dynamic libraries. E.g. an update of
glibc may be necessary because of a change in the kernel while it's
necessary for all other libraries to link against the original ones
because of 1. or 2.
Moritz
------------------------------
From: q_49@hot###mail.com
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:21:04 GMT
On 2 Apr 2000 21:35:28 GMT, "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>doesn't have to be rude. If they have pride in what they are doing,
>the truth, or a close approximation is enough. If they don't have
>pride, then yes, you have to be rude and blunt. It's exactly as
>though you were dealing with a laboror hired to build you a new
>kitchen. If you don't insist, they'll give you what they feel like
>giving you, instead of what you need or want.
Nonsense. First a laborer does not build you a kitchen...a skilled
trades person (programmers are not the only skilled workers) does in
the real world. One gets the kitchen designed first, and when it is to
your specifications, the project along with the plans/drawings is then
contracted to a reputable trades person to build. So your example is
useless hogwash. Only a "dense" person, maybe such as yourself would
get a kitchen build under the conditions you described in your
example. I guess being on the kernel development team is no guarantee
of basic engineering logic (I apologize for this unsubstantiated
generalization!). Sorry for being so blunt, but you have set the tone
for this type of interpersonal communication.......
------------------------------
From: Bonny Gijzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: linux pthreads problem on dual processor machine
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:43:15 -0400
Hello Nate,
Could you tell me which rmp files I need to upgrade my glibc to version
2.1.3
I'm afraid I will ruin my system if I miss some files.
Rgs Bonny,
Nate Eldredge wrote:
> Michael Tanenblatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Thanks -- though I am only able to locate glibc -2.1.2. Was that a
> > typo, or am I missing something? I am already using 2.1.2.
>
> No, glibc 2.1.3 is out. ftp.gnu.org:/gnu/glibc/
>
> --
>
> Nate Eldredge
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Bonny Gijzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: linux pthreads problem on dual processor machine
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:49:48 -0400
Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> >>>>> Andreas Rottmann writes:
>
> Andreas> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku) writes:
> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:34:22 -0500, Michael Tanenblatt
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >Thanks -- though I am only able to locate glibc -2.1.2. Was
> >> >that a typo, or am I missing something? I am already using
> >> >2.1.2.
> >>
> >> Not a typo; get 2.1.3. There are some considerable bugfixes in
> >> LinuxThreads between 2.1.2 and 2.1.3. Perhaps you are having
> >> trouble finding a binary package of glibc-2.1.3 for your
> >> distro.
> >>
> Andreas> Getting a distribution-binary should be possible: Debian
> Andreas> at least has released its seventh package of libc6 2.1.3
> Andreas> - libc6_2.1.3-7.deb. (this applies to the unstable AKA
> Andreas> woody version of Debian only)
>
> No, it's in potato (frozen) too. Not all of these seven versions were
> real glibc-2.1.3 releases, the first four versions were pre-releases.
>
> Juergen
>
> --
> Juergen Kreileder, Blackdown Java-Linux Team
> http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux.html
Hi,
Which files do I need to upgrade my glibc library to version 2.1.3
I'm affraid I'll reck my system if I miss some....
Rgs Bonny Gijzen,
------------------------------
From: Stuart Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Parallel port programming... pins 12 and 13 not working
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:28:15 GMT
Hello all!
I have a 486-33 Gateway 2000 that I am programming a custom slot-car
timer for, using Phototransistors and the parallel port. My program
works perfectly on my newer homebuilt dual pentium machine using pins
10,12,13 and 15. However it is not working for pins 12 and 13 on my
Gateway machine.
Pins 12 and 13 are for Paper Empty and Select. Is my parallel port
bad? Or is it possible that pins 12 and 13 are not used in the IBM
parallel port standard way on a GW computer?
Any thoughts on using COM2 w/ a female-female 25 pin connector?
thanks!
Stuart
--
Stuart Hall
Connecticut, USA
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kaz Kylheku)
Crossposted-To: linux.dev.c-programming
Subject: Re: pthread help!!!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:28:50 GMT
On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 04:52:40 GMT, Michael A Uman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Does anyone know if there is a way to spawn a thread which is
>'suspended' in the sense that Win32 has Suspended threads which can be
>resumed? I am trying to port a library which is currently supported on
>Win32 and Macintosh.
The POSIX interface doesn't have this feature, and there is currently no
LinuxThreads extension to provide this.
It means that you have to hack it yourself by using a thread-specific
flag and condition variable, or a semaphore.
In principle, the POSIX thread interface allows for a hack involving signals:
e.g. create the thread with some signal (like SIGCONT) block and then have it
execute sigwait() to atomically unblock the signal and wait for it. The thread
which created it can then use pthread_kill to wake it up. However,
this won't work in LinuxThreads because the passing of the signal mask
from creator to new thread is not atomic.
--
#exclude <windows.h>
------------------------------
From: James Moger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Kernel Splash Screen?
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:05:11 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am embedding x86 linux and want to "cover up" all the text output of
the kernel and sysvinit with a simple low-res graphic. Like the Windows
splash screen or what Corel has done with theirs. I've checked out
Aurora, but that only covers up sysvinit. Any ideas?
--
James Moger
===---------------------===
Software Engineer
Transonic Systems, Inc.
{C/C++} {Java} {Smalltalk}
Cornell Engineering '98
===---------------------===
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Edwards)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:29:39 GMT
In article <8c8ef0$8ho$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>:>I recommend you to fly in a plane controlled by a software written by
>:>a technical incompetent you were too "polite" to tell to go and fix
>:>his software.
>
>: I feel sorry for you if you lack the interpersonal skills required to tell
>: somebody that their software needs to be fixed without being rude to them.
>: You must lead a lonely and frustrating life.
>
>:-). If you do have the technical skill, then you'll know that one
>doesn't have to be rude.
You were the one who implied that software could crash airplanes because
telling somebody that there' s asoftware bug wouldn't be "polite" [your
qutoes].
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I want a VEGETARIAN
at BURRITO to go... with
visi.com EXTRA MSG!!
------------------------------
From: David E Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: nwu.comp.unix.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Large File Support
Date: 3 Apr 2000 15:54:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc Marc SCHAEFER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: llseek() exists, it allows to do very large seeks on raw devices.
This is perfect. I will be talking to a raw device (scsi). Thanks. Do I
need to use a special open(2)? The man page says O_LARGEFILE is ignored.
I'm just wondering if the driver will keep track of the 64 bits. I suppose
if I always reference it to the beginning of the file, I won't have to
worry about that. (I'm using a red hat 6.2, kernel is 2.2.14-5.00.)
dave allen, colorado springs
------------------------------
From: Pedro Monjo Florit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: RSVP and QoS
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:17:55 -0100
Can anybody give any information about the QoS facilities that come with
kernels 2.2.x (at least, 2.2.13). I am specially interested in the RSVP
options. I already have two implementations, but what I want to know is
how to use the utilities of the kernel.
Thank you in advance
Pedro Monjo Florit
------------------------------
From: Andi Kleen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Kernel Splash Screen?
Date: 03 Apr 2000 19:04:23 +0200
James Moger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I am embedding x86 linux and want to "cover up" all the text output of
> the kernel and sysvinit with a simple low-res graphic. Like the Windows
> splash screen or what Corel has done with theirs. I've checked out
> Aurora, but that only covers up sysvinit. Any ideas?
This could cause you some trouble, because some kernel driver developers
want their copyright messages to be displayed (Caldera tried to do this
in the past, but they had to back down because of the protests)
-Andi
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Don Waugaman)
Subject: Re: Help with ostringstream...
Date: 3 Apr 2000 09:18:57 -0700
In article <8c9r78$5d4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Veksler Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Michael A Uman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Does anyone know where in the Linux libraries the 'ostringstream' class
>> is defined? I cannot find it in the GNU gcc include files.
>> Please advise?
>The stock libstdc++.a delivered with gcc-2.95.2 does not support
>stringstream. You have two options:
>1. Use the legacy strstream instead (be careful with the memory leak
> pitfall of strstream::str() ).
>2. Download the latest libstc++ v3, and use it instead. It is being
> (re)written to conform to the recent ISO C++ standard.
> Be careful, it is still in development.
There's another option as well.
Last month, Magnus Fromreide posted an sstream header file to the gcc
mailing list at gcc.gnu.org. You can see the contents in
<http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2000-02/msg00448/sstream>.
It should be self-contained. I haven't played around with it myself.
Caveat lector.
--
- Don Waugaman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) O- _|_ Will pun
Web Page: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/dpw/ | for food
In the Sonoran Desert, where we say: "It's a dry heat..." | <><
A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices
that the system works.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Mardahl)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,linux.dev.c-programming,linux.redhat.development
Subject: Re: Partition Access
Date: 3 Apr 2000 16:43:57 GMT
In article <wiQF4.3854$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Someone Insignificant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I received these harsh and reprehensible comments from someone
>who decided that they would vent their marrital frustrations on me,
>and didnt have the nerve to post his ramblings here.
>
>Please, read and enjoy, knowing all the while that your programming
>position at XYZ Company is secure. 8)
I read these comments, and I tend to think that you have a
very thin skin.
You responded to his private criticism of your technical arguments
with a public attack on his person.
You have not won my admiration by doing this. Nor has my opinion of
the person who replied to you gone down.
PeterM
>
>ps. My reply can be found in this thread as well.
>
>-----------------
>
>> of the device, the number of blocks on the device. Also, standard calls to
>> the C library lseek() function are limited to a maximum of 2 gig.
>
>then obviously you shouldn't use the 32b versions of lseek.
>Linux has supported 64b file operations for a while now, even on ia32.
>
>> Solutions such as reading the information from the /proc filesystem simply
>> are not adequate. This would work fine if I were developing a shell script
>> or simple program, however, this library is part of a much larger system,
>> and needs fine grained control and as close a route to the source of the
>> information as possible.
>
>this is a specious argument, since the premise is that /proc is somehow
>not a fundamental means of kernel<>user communication. while there are
>some ioctls that might do some of the things you want, they're gradually
>disappearing, since /proc is very definitely the right way.
>
>> Its times like these when I wish I had a nice, cushy cubicle in RedHat,
>just
>> down the hall from the fileing cabinet where this type of information is
>> undoubtedly stored, but, short of that, I am hopeing someone can throw up
>> specific links to this type of info.
>
>you're drastically mistaken about the role of mere distribution-vendors
>like Redhat in the ongoing design of Linux.
>
>> develop my application this way. Quite simply, dont bother. This is the
>way
>> it needs to be written.
>
>you require someone to add "low-level" interfaces to the kernel
>to make you happy? that is not how it works. if you want to change
>the way Linux does it (/proc), then you must:
> - provide a good argument proving that that /proc is inadequate.
> - provide at least a skeleton of an implementation that is clearly
> better. note that this sort of information is not performance
> sensitive, so "better" means "more maintainable to the kernel",
> and to a minor extent "more usable at the user-level".
>
>Mark Hahn.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:40:29 -0700
From: Doug Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Finding virtual memory information in a kernel module
I am writing a kernel module that locates a process and outputs
information about that proces's virtual memory. One piece of info that
I need to find is the virtual memory page that the process's program
counter is pointing to. I am not sure where to look for this
information and would appreciate any help.
A couple of other pieces of info I need and don't know how to find are
if the virtual memory page is dirty and if the page is in physical
memory. Any help on these matters would be appreciated.
Thanks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pjtg0707)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:59:55 GMT
On 3 Apr 2000 07:12:40 GMT, Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=========================snipped================================
Can you guys take this offline to private email? This discussion is not
relevant in this group.
------------------------------
From: "Weiguang Shi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How to decide a file is newly created?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:57:11 -0700
Reply-To: "Weiguang Shi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi, there:
Could anyone please tell me how to decide inside the system calls, say
write, the current file is a newly-created one rather than one created
before and opened again for WR or RDWR ?
Thanks a lot
Weiguang
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: 3 Apr 2000 16:45:04 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.system q_49@hot###mail.com wrote:
: On 2 Apr 2000 21:35:28 GMT, "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: wrote:
:>doesn't have to be rude. If they have pride in what they are doing,
:>the truth, or a close approximation is enough. If they don't have
:>pride, then yes, you have to be rude and blunt. It's exactly as
:>though you were dealing with a laboror hired to build you a new
:>kitchen. If you don't insist, they'll give you what they feel like
:>giving you, instead of what you need or want.
: Nonsense. First a laborer does not build you a kitchen...a skilled
: trades person (programmers are not the only skilled workers) does in
Errr .. you should see the "skilled tradesperson" who built my kitchen.
Have you any idea how much intellectual skill it takes to construct a
kitchen? The answer is: zero. It takes nouse. Nouse to know where to
buy the materials. Nouse to know when to turn up, and when to go in
search of more contracts, etc. etc.
: the real world. One gets the kitchen designed first, and when it is to
: your specifications, the project along with the plans/drawings is then
: contracted to a reputable trades person to build. So your example is
: useless hogwash. Only a "dense" person, maybe such as yourself would
: get a kitchen build under the conditions you described in your
: example. I guess being on the kernel development team is no guarantee
: of basic engineering logic (I apologize for this unsubstantiated
: generalization!). Sorry for being so blunt, but you have set the tone
: for this type of interpersonal communication.......
Interesting ad hominen.
Coming back to the basis of the personal attacks you seem to be
launching, I have no compunction whatsoever in telling people the truth.
If their work stinks, I'll say so and tell them why. I expect them to
respond equally frankly. I characterised the original post here asking
about linux deployment as naive and ignorant, and that seems to me to be
exactly the case. I have no problem with those words: if you do, then
explain to me why?
I certainly don't mind being called naive or ignorant, or rude, or
impolite. These are attributes that are either true or untrue, and I
won't complain to you about them except insofar as they are true or
untrue. You can call my work stupid, and if it is stupid, I'll agree.
I call myself stupid when I am, and naive when I am, ten times a day.
But I certainly won't complain on the basis of the word you used!
And that appears to me to be what your problem amounts to. You are
complaining because a word appears to you to be offensive. To me, it's
a perfectly ordinary word, that describes a state. Naive. Ignorant.
Naive. Ignorant. I don't mind repeating those words until you
become inured to them. If you have a problem with them, then
that's a dumb coktail-party attitude. It should have no place in a
technical world. It's social snobbery. Your work and you yourself
can be naive and ignorant. It's no crime. It's normal. Happens
to all of us.
Judge work. Please desist from attempting to justify your argument on
the basis of your superior social wheedling skills! I at least esteem
that argument not in the least, whether you possess them or not, because
it places truth second. That's the argument of a politician or a
shyster, not an engineer or a scientist. Stick to the technical
content, make a technical point, and I'll grant you it or not according
as it is true, or not.
Sorry, but them's the rules. Politeness is a no-no. It doesn't count.
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: 3 Apr 2000 16:45:40 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.system Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In article <8c8ef0$8ho$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter T. Breuer wrote:
:>:>I recommend you to fly in a plane controlled by a software written by
:>:>a technical incompetent you were too "polite" to tell to go and fix
:>:>his software.
:>
:>: I feel sorry for you if you lack the interpersonal skills required to tell
:>: somebody that their software needs to be fixed without being rude to them.
:>: You must lead a lonely and frustrating life.
:>
:>:-). If you do have the technical skill, then you'll know that one
:>doesn't have to be rude.
: You were the one who implied that software could crash airplanes because
: telling somebody that there' s asoftware bug wouldn't be "polite" [your
: qutoes].
Have you read comp.risks?
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: How compatible is Linux with .. Linux
Date: 3 Apr 2000 16:46:51 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.system Marijn Vriens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On 2 Apr 2000 21:39:14 GMT, Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
:>And then we get onto minor version differences (aka bugs). I'm having
:>a wonderful time trying to get jdk 1.2 work with anything on
:>everything. I can get it 95% of the way, then ld.so, glibc minor
:>version, and crossing your fingers, kicks in as to whether it works or
:>not.
:>
:>And as to PATHS, aaaaargh.
: And thus we have concluded that Linux is made for programs that come
: in sourcecode so that users can do the
: ./configure
: make all
: make install
: routine.
Unfortunately, the jdk is hard to (get a licence to) recompile. And
yes, that is the problem with it.
: Any software maker wanting to deign users of the source code, will not
: only price in public prestige, but also have bigger and slower
: applications because of the need to statically link all libraries.
: Open source has yet an other leg up as a software development
: methodology. Which is fine :).
Peter
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