Linux-Development-Sys Digest #910, Volume #7 Sat, 27 May 00 01:13:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (David Steuber)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Victor Wagner)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Victor Wagner)
Re: How to debug a loadable module in Linux ? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Call stack in C (John Reiser)
ICMP ("Sake")
Re: ICMP (Juergen Heinzl)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Jonathan Abbey)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Christopher Browne)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Jim Richardson)
Re: Call stack in C (Mario Klebsch)
Re: Linux Bootable CD (Mario Klebsch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:00:00 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David T. Blake) writes:
' > Maybe the Harmony project will settle this last concern. That
' > all depends if Harmony is LGPL or GPL.
'
' LGPL. Anyone may link without fear. But the motivation for the
' project may be somewhat less with "open source" advocates
' rolling over and playing dead on the issue.
'
' http://www.yggdrasil.com/~harmony/
Last updated over a year ago. I see what you mean.
Ok, I think you may have won me over. Also, I must confess that I do
not like MOC. It strikes me as being evil macro hackery. For harmony
to be a compatible library, it must do MOC, or am I wrong?
This brings us full circle. The subject asks for ideas for a
university funded project for linux ( is the original poster still
watching this thread? ). I _like_ KDE. Qt is easy to use. Qt is
getting damn popular damn fast. Also, KDE is a huge project.
I should probably really look at GTK+/GTK--, but I've got this idea in
my mind that a GUI toolkit should be based on C++ from the outset
rather than using C++ wrappers, however good they may be, around a C
toolkit. I could be wrong in this opinion. Maybe a C toolkit is the
best way to go. But we already have Xlib... Yes, it is not a
'toolkit'. But it is what is ultimately being wrapped.
Therefor, my proposal for a university funded project for Linux is an
LGPL'd C++ application framework/toolkit for developing portable X
Windows applications. If the GUI components are kept seperate from
other support pieces, then the toolkit could perhaps also be used for
console applications. This toolkit should be comprehensive enough
that yet another windowmanager can be written and yet another desktop
environment can be written.
This application framework/toolkit should stick with the ANSI C++
coding standards and not introduce any macro hackery of any kind.
If possible, the GUI interfaces should be abstract enough so that the
framework/toolkit can be ported to other operating systems.
Applications that use the toolkit exclusively may then be ported to
those other environments with a simple recompile.
All the lessons learned from previous frameworks should be applied to
the new toolkit. The toolkit should take maximum advantage of the
ANSI C++ facilities where it makes sense to do so. This should have
the side effect of keeping the momentum on GCC going so that it can
reach full ANSI compliance.
I wonder how many people it would take to produce such a library
within one year?
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
All bits are significant. Some bits are more significant than others.
-- Charles Babbage Orwell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 26 May 2000 09:23:10 +0400
In comp.os.linux.misc David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Someone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: ' blah, blah, blah, more hobbies for Computer Science geeks. I have several
: ' hobbies two of them are Digitally recording my band and another one is playing
: ' with Linux. And for me the question is: Pay big bucks for a multitrack cd
: ' pressing software for a Win box, Pay Bigger bucks for a Mac and App, or spend
: ' the rest of my life figuring out how string together linuxs text apps, TCL, and
: ' various X apps. I happen to be a musician and computer literate, but I only
: ' have so much time. I guess the though of his thread is lost. I was just trying
: ' to suggest a killer app that would bring hords of Linux users, sorry if I rained
: ' on your power outlet.
: I'm sorry if I didn't get your point. I am rather literal minded and
: miss irony rather frequently. Perhaps I need a metal detector.
: A good mixing app for Linux would be great. I suspect there are
: already such beasts in the works. I might have seen a mention on
: www.kde.org. I don't recall.
: Unfortunately, I am not a musician or recording engineer, so I don't
: have the stuff to test such an application, or the domain knowlege for
: designing a good user interface to such an application.
: Do you have any idea of what such an application should look like?
: What it's functions should be? I mean specifics, not hand waving. I
: really hate it when I deliver what is asked for and the client
: complains that it is not what he wanted.
I'm neither musician nor recording engineer too, but I have some
thoughts
1. The thing should have no look at all, so it would be possible to run
it on specially assembled applicances without monitor and keyboard, not
mention mouse
2. It should have simple stdin-controlled interface, like ispell -a,
so it would be easy to write various user UIs for it.
Start with ncurses one.
3. It should use big mlock-ed buffer like cdrecord does, so it would
record relaible on slow processors (for appliances again)
4. It should have ability to stop writing to the file automatically
if everything is silent, but still keep few seconds of sound in the
mentioned buffer, so if there would be something to record it would
start file few (configurable) seconds earlier first sound heard.
--
I won't mention any names, because I don't want to get sun4's into
trouble... :-) -- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Victor Wagner)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 26 May 2000 21:55:49 +0400
In comp.os.linux.misc JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>I like the ability of rpm to NOT install older or matching versions
:>on top of what is running and to later tell me which files have been
:>modified or are missing compared to the installed packages.
:>
:>Also, configure scripts don't know how to satisfy dependencies when
:>you install several related things at once that must be done in a
:>certain order. Rpm gets this right if you install them all in one
:>command.
: No it doesn't. Infact that's one of the most annoying things
: about RPM. Given a collection of packages, it's unable to sort
: things out for itself.
Then why you all out there use RedHat deviatives?
When I've problems installing Linux on my notebook (due to flacky PCMCIA
net card) I've just thrown bunch of debs into would-be-/home partition
and type dpkg -i *
And this was in bare-bones base system where there was no contemporary
version of apt.
Not that Debian doesn't have some problems. Recently I've upgraded old
Debian 2.0 server to 2.1. And next day users have complained that
telnet and talk have disappeared - they was split out from netbase to
separate packages and I forget to install them. (and there was a reason
not to just run apt-get upgrade, but rather upgrade package by package).
Interesting that there was no such problem with X despite "Great X
reorganization" - it was well thought of.
--
Linux! Guerrilla UNIX Development Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus.
-- Mark A. Horton KA4YBR, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How to debug a loadable module in Linux ?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:25:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Legern=E6s?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am going to develop an X25 protocol stack as a loadable device
driver
> module, but I have
> as yet little experience with Linux and Linux tools.
>
> If I understand it correctly, such a module will run as a part of the
> kernel process, and I assume
> this must impose strong restrictions on how it can be debugged.
>
> What tools do Linux developers usually use when writing and debugging
> loadable kernel modules ?
I think printk() is the easiest way to debug.
You can see plenty of uses of it in drivers for examples.
Depending on your environment, the messages may or may not appear on
your command line. In any case the messages are appended to the end of
/var/log/messages
Though this approach is limited (it messes with your timing in some
cases -- for instance), it is quick and often all you need.
> Does there exist any source code level debuggers for this type of
> debugging ?
gdb is the heavy duty debugger. It will take more time to get to know
though.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:34:11 GMT
On 26 May 2000 21:55:49 +0400, Victor Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.misc JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>:>I like the ability of rpm to NOT install older or matching versions
>:>on top of what is running and to later tell me which files have been
>:>modified or are missing compared to the installed packages.
>:>
>:>Also, configure scripts don't know how to satisfy dependencies when
>:>you install several related things at once that must be done in a
>:>certain order. Rpm gets this right if you install them all in one
>:>command.
>
>: No it doesn't. Infact that's one of the most annoying things
>: about RPM. Given a collection of packages, it's unable to sort
>: things out for itself.
>
>
>Then why you all out there use RedHat deviatives?
I never took to Debian or any of it's derivatives.
[deletia]
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: John Reiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Call stack in C
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:39:20 -0700
> Is there a function call that can be made from within a running
> program that will write a stack-trace to some stream (stdout, stderr, etc.)?
glibc-2.1.2 has functions
int backtrace(void **p_pc, int n)
char **backtrace_symbols(void *const *arr, int n)
void backtrace_symbols_fd(void *const *arr, int n, int fd)
which work best when the code is compiled with the usual frame pointers.
See <execinfo.h>. These routines are relatively young; YMMV.
--
John Reiser, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Sake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ICMP
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:50:21 -0400
Hi,
I built a kernel with full TCP/IP suport, and made a single floppy
ram-disk-only
system. System booted, interfaces are configured, everything looks fine. But
when
I tried use 'ping' to reach out to other machines I got the message "unknoen
protocol icmp"
while other machines on the network can successfuly ping this one.
What did I miss ?
e-mail response to [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Juergen Heinzl)
Subject: Re: ICMP
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:09:33 GMT
In article <8gn6dd$hd9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sake wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I built a kernel with full TCP/IP suport, and made a single floppy
>ram-disk-only system. System booted, interfaces are configured,
>everything looks fine. But when I tried use 'ping' to reach out to
>other machines I got the message "unknoen protocol icmp"
[...]
/etc/protocols is not there.
Cheers,
Juergen
--
\ Real name : J�rgen Heinzl \ no flames /
\ EMail Private : [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ send money instead /
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Abbey)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 26 May 2000 20:26:26 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
| consider a simple program. call it widget.
|
| it's got a man page and config. its executable is
|
| /usr/bin/widget
|
| /usr/man/man1/widget
|
| /etc/widget.cf
|
| notice how the files are scattered all over the filesystem. if the
| names are strange or it installs more files, it can get messy fast. i
I would consider a software package that depended on such scattering
to be broken.
| don't mind them being all over the place, i just want a record of
| this. the make install should create a log of what got installed
| where. then i could copy this file somewhere and keep track of the
| whole widget package. i wish this were a standard feature of people's
| makefiles.
That would be nice, obviously, but the previous poster was correct
when he said that the real answer here is for UNIX software to be
packaged with support for a '--prefix=' type option. That lets you
use stuff like opt_depot/STOW/depot/STORE/encap/LUDE/etc.
| i'm not looking for any magic bullets to rescue a broken filesystem, i
| just want a little help keeping tracking of what went where.
Unfortunately, creation of an installation list has never been a
common thing to do in UNIX software packaging. You're probably going
to be better off using the mechanism that is there (--prefix), or just
biting the bullet and going with something like RPM or the Debian
Package format which will track everything for you in said database.
| --
| J o h a n K u l l s t a m
| [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
| Don't Fear the Penguin!
--
===============================================================================
Jonathan Abbey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Applied Research Laboratories The University of Texas at Austin
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX http://www.arlut.utexas.edu/gash2
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:44:53 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Jan Knutar would say:
>On Tue, 23 May 2000 10:21:52 -0400, Someone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>use it for? Why don't any of the free ISPs support Linux? That would be
>
>Could anyone please define 'free ISP' ??
These are Internet Service Providers that provide service at no charge
to the users.
There are three main variations on this:
a) Freenets such as <http://www.freenet.carleton.ca/>; they fund
themselves via "whineware," generally via annual drives for
donations.
b) Free service that you may get from having bought an expensive
computer. (It's rather more common to get the opposite; a cheap
computer via paying for an _expensive_ ISP...)
c) Free service that comes from someone imposing the requirement that
you use their mail client and/or web browser that either:
1. Makes you look at their advertising, or
2. Provides them psychometric information by indicating what web
sites you browse, and such...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
I was just wondering if the Chinese are busy trying to deal with the
"Year Of The Dragon" bug.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:41:56 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 25 May 2000 19:41:07 GMT,
Peter T. Breuer, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In comp.os.linux.misc Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: On 25 May 2000 04:54:09 GMT,
>: Peter T. Breuer, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>: brought forth the following words...:
>
>:>In comp.os.linux.misc Jim Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>:>: Sure, you can replicate the functionality in RPM or Deb easily enough, but
>:>: not with just the ./configure;make;make install mentioned. (At least not
>:>: without the connivence of the writer of the ./configure script.) RPM allready
>:>
>:>setenv INSTALL "pkginstall install -c"
>
>: Having logged it, what tool do you use to check before removing/upgrading
>: something?
>
>less and grep.
>
>: (this is slackware you are discussing, right? )
>
>Yep. You can also do a dry run with removepkg or installpkg and the right
>flag. I don't bother since I'm hardly likely to remove libc. I do have to
>keep remembering not to remove tk/tcl 4.0/7.1 4.1/7.2 etc. etc though!
>
>I.e. there is a nonzero probability that I will upgrade+remove an old
>package which will leave some other old utility high and dry, leaning
>on nothing. But it's very unlikely, as I "know what I'm doing". I
>wouldn't do a remove without looking hard for binaries that used its
>dynamic libraries. Meta-compilers have got me on occasion though.
>
>Peter
Sounds like what you are doing is replicating (by hand) the function
of the rpm database? Can I ask what it is about rpm that you don't like?
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mario Klebsch)
Subject: Re: Call stack in C
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:18:46 +0200
"Norm Dresner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>H. Peter Anvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8gkqb9$4c8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Followup to: <BQPW4.78$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> By author: Joe Ceklosky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> In newsgroup: comp.os.linux.development.system
>> > How can I get a call stack strace from a
>> > running program. I want something like pstack
>> > on Solaris for Linux
>> gdb -p <process_id>
>That only works if you're running in the debugger and have stopped at a
>breakpoint.
gdb will stop the program. Instead of calling gdb in interactive mode,
you could start it using the -x option. It takes a file as an argument
and gdb executes the commands stored in this file.
The file must include a command to propuce a stack trace and a
command to restart the stopped program afterwards.
>Is there a function call that can be made from within a running
>program that will write a stack-trace to some stream (stdout, stderr, etc.)?
It would be system() or execve() in this case.
73, Mario
--
Mario Klebsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mario Klebsch)
Subject: Re: Linux Bootable CD
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:20:35 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> You need to understand initrd and the eltorito bootable CD stuff.
>> First, eltorito allows you to have a floppy image to boot, of 720, 1440,
>> or 2880k size. That gets copied to a ramdisk, and the ramdisk kernel
>> gets booted. I didn't say that well, but those are the things you need
>> to know.
>my problem is to get the floppy image to the exact size of 1440, 2880. do
>have an elegant way for that?
cat(1), dd(1), /dev/zero?
$ cat bootimage /dev/zero | dd bs=1024 count=1440 of=image.1440k
$
73, Mario
--
Mario Klebsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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