Linux-Development-Sys Digest #221, Volume #8 Tue, 17 Oct 00 11:13:14 EDT
Contents:
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 (Johan Kullstam)
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 (Christopher Browne)
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 (B'ichela)
Re: looking for ("[EMAIL PROTECTED]")
Re: How to access a unexported kernel symbol ? (Robert Kaiser)
Re: Remote Shell ("Miguel Angel Rodriguez Jodar")
Re: Most popular Linux development environment(s)? Graphical? (Aulne)
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Most popular Linux development environment(s)? Graphical? (Michel Talon)
Re: 75E48FC8 Visio for Linux (Nix)
registering with /proc fs ("Keith")
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 (Johan Kullstam)
ftp performence over wireless lan (Jerome Corre)
ftp performence over wireless lan (Jerome Corre)
Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6 ("Paul D. Smith")
Re: new windowing system (Steve O'Hara Smith)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:26:24 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela) writes:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:36:12 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >If you have 30 processes linked to libc5 and 40 processes linked to
> >libc6 you have the libraries taking up at most the space of both
> >just once. That is, as long as everything is shared. We're talking
> >about less than a meg of memory for libc5, and that isn't a problem
> >at least on today's machines of 64 meg and larger. Of course if you
> >are still running on that old 8 meg 386, that's another issue.
> Being one of those people who still uses a 486 DX2/66 with
> 20mb of ram as well as two 486 DX/33 8mb client machines. bigger libs
> hurt my system badly. thats why I never moved up from kernel 2.0.38 on
> slackware 3.9. I don't have the memory to throw around. How big is
> libc5 vs libc6 anyway?
on the gripping hand, libc5 is dead and has been dead for something
like two years now. this means no development, no bug fixes, not even
security fixes afaik.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:44:47 GMT
In our last episode (Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:26:24 GMT),
the artist formerly known as Johan Kullstam said:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela) writes:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:36:12 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >If you have 30 processes linked to libc5 and 40 processes linked to
>> >libc6 you have the libraries taking up at most the space of both
>> >just once. That is, as long as everything is shared. We're talking
>> >about less than a meg of memory for libc5, and that isn't a problem
>> >at least on today's machines of 64 meg and larger. Of course if you
>> >are still running on that old 8 meg 386, that's another issue.
>> Being one of those people who still uses a 486 DX2/66 with
>> 20mb of ram as well as two 486 DX/33 8mb client machines. bigger libs
>> hurt my system badly. thats why I never moved up from kernel 2.0.38 on
>> slackware 3.9. I don't have the memory to throw around. How big is
>> libc5 vs libc6 anyway?
>
>on the gripping hand, libc5 is dead and has been dead for something
>like two years now. this means no development, no bug fixes, not even
>security fixes afaik.
Yes, and while it may not be of immediate interest here, libc5 solely
runs on IA-32. It _may_ have worked on Alpha, for a brief period, but
that may be apocryphal. And there are quite a lot of apps needing to run
on architectures other than IA-32.
The main merit of libc5 is that since it is (compared to GLIBC2)
obsolete and unsupported, it _doesn't_ change.
In contrast, GLIBC2 has been evolving to support SMP and POSIX, which
libc5 was basically too difficult to maintain to be able to support.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"In computing, invariants are ephemeral." -- Alan Perlis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:31:43 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:26:24 GMT, Johan Kullstam
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela) writes:
>> Being one of those people who still uses a 486 DX2/66 with
>> 20mb of ram as well as two 486 DX/33 8mb client machines. bigger libs
>> hurt my system badly. thats why I never moved up from kernel 2.0.38 on
>> slackware 3.9. I don't have the memory to throw around. How big is
>> libc5 vs libc6 anyway?
>
>on the gripping hand, libc5 is dead and has been dead for something
>like two years now. this means no development, no bug fixes, not even
>security fixes afaik.
Forgive my stupidity (possibly stupid) but is that good or bad
for the average home user who compiles their own software? I don't
really use much more than slrn or pine along with lynx. The way that I
have seen the glibc 1 vs glibc2 wars is this. with ver2 everything is
Bigger! or is that really just an illusion? I am on a fixed income due
to my disabilitys (legally Blind, Partially deaf). I also remember the
incompatibilities between early Glibc 2.0 and glibc 2.1 (has that
been corrected or do I need both versions for running/compiling code?
OTH.... If I did compile glibc2 (I saw it available in the
ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/gnu/glibc area) how can I continue to compile
either code base? My NFS clients are libc5 based (same linux version
as the server.) both in Kernal and slackware 3.9. I do not have a
slackware 3.9 CD all of my system is dloaded at 14,400 bps (YIPE!).
Although I did grab X11R6 off of my slackware 3.6 Cds I have here.).
The next question is related to slackware users. If I did go
to cheapbytes and grab a Slackware 7 cd How do I keep my system files
that control system configs. I rather not have to redo all of those
NFS, NIS, FTP, Telnet, ppp configuration files. Would I see a drastic
bloat of the core? Remember, the server only has 20mb of ram!
(although If I had the cash I could go 128mb on my 486DX2/66) I have a
40mb swap partition on my first of 5 Scsi Hard drives). the two
clients only have 8mb of RAM and tiny 120mb IDE hds. (they get their
/usr /home and /root dirs via NFS).
--
B'ichela
------------------------------
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: looking for
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:08:40 +0200
Hi,
Lesson 1 in Linux programming is
Gnu is not unix,
and Linux is not DOS (urg!!)
Lesson 2
Check /usr/include fot the header files.
Lesson 3
No real mode interrupts.
=====
For kernel systems programming try the book Linux Device Drivers.
For normal programming try Linux Programming Unleashed.
also try www.linuxdoc.org
Have fun Hacking
Richard.
Roee Bachar wrote:
>
> Hello all
>
> I have Redhat 6.2 Linux and I'm looking for good help material on
> programming in linux
> my favorite programming language is C.
>
> I want to know better on :
> * all of c libraries (such as stdio.h, graphics.h, bios.h ) for
> linux.
> * system programming ( how to us the ROM BIOS interrupts for
> example).
> * how to program graphics in linux .
> * multitasking commands for c.
>
> I mean all the help I can get :
> * files to read.
> * names of good books ( not for beginners ).
>
> Thanks all
>
> ROEE BACHAR
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Kaiser)
Subject: Re: How to access a unexported kernel symbol ?
Date: 17 Oct 2000 08:23:30 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Michel Bardiaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > Hi ! All
>> >
>> > While writing a module, sometimes there is a need to access some kernel
>> > symbol that is not exported , it is, can not be found in /proc/ksyms.
>> > Say , the global variable : main_table . Practically, it can be handled
>> > by directly accessing /dev/kmem. But, is there any other ways to do that
>> > ?
>>
>> I assume you want to determine the address if a non-exported symbol in
>> the running kernel, right ?
>>
>> I once did this successfully using the System.map file. Of course
>> this is a bad hack, not for the faint-hearted. Drop me a mail if
>> you're interested and I'll see if I can dig it up for you...
>
> I once had the problem of accessing a non-exported kernel location, and
> there was quite a discussion here. Problem is, there is no *reliable*
> way to determine which System.map corresponds to a particular vmlinuz.
The way I did it was to compare the values of all symbols found in
/proc/ksyms to the values of the same symbols in any System.map
candidate. If they all matched, my algorithm would conclude that
the System.map file was indeed valid. While this may not be 100%
reliable, it has always worked for me (I _did_ say it's a dirty
hack ;-)).
> The two *correct* ways are (1) export what you need and use kmem (2) add
> what you need to the proc filesystem (the best).
I completely agree, but in my case, patching the kernel was not an
option.
Rob
================================================================
Robert Kaiser email: rkaiser AT sysgo DOT de
SYSGO RTS GmbH http://www.elinos.com
Klein-Winternheim / Germany http://www.sysgo.de
------------------------------
From: "Miguel Angel Rodriguez Jodar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.dev.c-programming
Subject: Re: Remote Shell
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:25:17 +0200
>I understand that I need to redirect stdout, stderr, and stdin in the child
>process to a pipe via dup2() and read from and write to that pipe in the
>parent, sending stdout/stderr data to the client and sending data from the
>client to stdin.
Your shell needs to be attached to a terminal, or a virtual terminal. This
is what the telnet daemon do: create a virtual terminal on the server side
so the shell program thinks it has a console of its own.
You have two options:
- Not to use a real shell, but a simple self-made prompt.
- Read and understand the telnet daemon sources.
I recommend to you to read the great "Unix Network Programming, both 1st and
2nd editions". At least, in the first edition there's a discussion about
virtual terminals.
Miguel Angel
------------------------------
From: Aulne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Most popular Linux development environment(s)? Graphical?
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:58:21 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (jazz) wrote:
> I'm thinking of switching from mac to Linux. If I did, what programming
> setup would I likely find myself using? Gnu? Is there anything with a
> graphical interface, esp. for the debugger, as in Codewarrior, where you
> see a window containg your code and you can clearly mark breakpoints and
> follow the program counter steping through your code? With windows for
> variables, stack tracing, etc.?
Honest question, really: what's wrong with CodeWarrior for Linux?
http://www.metrowerks.com/desktop/linux/redhat/gnu/
Alain
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:24:40 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela) writes:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:26:24 GMT, Johan Kullstam
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela) writes:
> >> Being one of those people who still uses a 486 DX2/66 with
> >> 20mb of ram as well as two 486 DX/33 8mb client machines. bigger libs
> >> hurt my system badly. thats why I never moved up from kernel 2.0.38 on
> >> slackware 3.9. I don't have the memory to throw around. How big is
> >> libc5 vs libc6 anyway?
> >
> >on the gripping hand, libc5 is dead and has been dead for something
> >like two years now. this means no development, no bug fixes, not even
> >security fixes afaik.
> Forgive my stupidity (possibly stupid) but is that good or bad
> for the average home user who compiles their own software? I don't
> really use much more than slrn or pine along with lynx.
since there are no security fixes, if someone cracks you through
libc5, then you would care.
> The way that I
> have seen the glibc 1 vs glibc2 wars is this. with ver2 everything is
> Bigger! or is that really just an illusion? I am on a fixed income due
> to my disabilitys (legally Blind, Partially deaf). I also remember the
> incompatibilities between early Glibc 2.0 and glibc 2.1 (has that
> been corrected or do I need both versions for running/compiling
> code?
the incompatibilities had to do with using private functions of
glibc.
> OTH.... If I did compile glibc2 (I saw it available in the
> ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/gnu/glibc area) how can I continue to compile
> either code base? My NFS clients are libc5 based (same linux version
> as the server.) both in Kernal and slackware 3.9. I do not have a
> slackware 3.9 CD all of my system is dloaded at 14,400 bps (YIPE!).
> Although I did grab X11R6 off of my slackware 3.6 Cds I have here.).
> The next question is related to slackware users. If I did go
> to cheapbytes and grab a Slackware 7 cd How do I keep my system files
> that control system configs.
i tar up /etc and save it somewhere. then i track down odds and ends
of configuration.
> I rather not have to redo all of those
> NFS, NIS, FTP, Telnet, ppp configuration files. Would I see a drastic
> bloat of the core? Remember, the server only has 20mb of ram!
> (although If I had the cash I could go 128mb on my 486DX2/66) I have a
> 40mb swap partition on my first of 5 Scsi Hard drives). the two
> clients only have 8mb of RAM and tiny 120mb IDE hds. (they get their
> /usr /home and /root dirs via NFS).
>
> --
>
> B'ichela
>
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Most popular Linux development environment(s)? Graphical?
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:57:53 +0200
In comp.os.linux.development.system Aulne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jazz) wrote:
>> I'm thinking of switching from mac to Linux. If I did, what programming
>> setup would I likely find myself using? Gnu? Is there anything with a
>> graphical interface, esp. for the debugger, as in Codewarrior, where you
>> see a window containg your code and you can clearly mark breakpoints and
>> follow the program counter steping through your code? With windows for
>> variables, stack tracing, etc.?
> Honest question, really: what's wrong with CodeWarrior for Linux?
> http://www.metrowerks.com/desktop/linux/redhat/gnu/
And also the standard tools for free unix systems: notably ddd
will provide you with exactly all you want, window with code , breakpoints,
execution following, window for registers, etc.
The only problem is the text editor, you will more or less end up using emacs
or vim which are very powerful but complicated beasts.
> Alain
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Michel Talon
------------------------------
From: Nix <$}xinix{[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 75E48FC8 Visio for Linux
Date: 16 Oct 2000 22:50:00 +0100
Larry Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Linuxcad again ????
I wonder if they are related to LinuxOne? There is a certain similarity
in their names and in the truthfulness of their advertising.
> This thing's had so many stakes through its heart that it's sprouting
> leaves :-).
Leaves of purest spam.
--
`Normally, we don't do people's homework around here, but Venice
is a very beautiful city, so I'll make a small exception.'
--- Robert Redelmeier compromises his principles
------------------------------
From: "Keith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: registering with /proc fs
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:02:20 -0400
PROBLEM
I have an array of structures that I want to register with the /proc file
system. How do I do this. I realize that a proc file has to be contructed
(ie. ctl_table). My problem is representing an array of structures.
Thanks,
Keith
------------------------------
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 17 Oct 2000 09:49:49 -0400
"Paul D. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> %% [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto) writes:
>
> >> I'll mention one important point: the handling of the conversion of
> >> libc5 to libc6 is really first and foremost a _distribution_ issue.
>
> pk> I have the impression, though, that most of the complaints arise from
> pk> attempts to use binaries from sources other than the distribution
> pk> (whichever one that might be).
>
> Well, that might be so. But a well-designed distro would have installed
> the new libs and the old ones so they could co-exist, and so that the
> old libs' names didn't have to be changed. In that scenario, programs
> compiled for use with the old libs would still work.
>
> The problem is that the libc5 -> libc6 move was the first really major
> shift that caused people to carefully consider this issue,
and libc4 (a.out) to libc5 (elf) wasn't a major shift? didn't the
same issues come up?
shared libraries are a great boon, but it *is* painful to switch major
versions. i think glibc2 series has some stuff to handle versioning
internally so libc jumps are no longer as painful.
> so for some
> (most?) distros it was hard to get this right in a backward-compatible
> way. Hopefully, distros are now getting it right.
>
> I will say that I've upgraded my Debian system from libc5 to libc6
> (glibc) and through various updates of glibc, and I've never had a
> real problem yet. Of course, I don't use very cutting-edge unstable
> Debian, I mostly stick with the well-tested stuff, except for where I'm
> actually working on code.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
sysengr
------------------------------
From: Jerome Corre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
Subject: ftp performence over wireless lan
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:19:06 GMT
hi,
I have set up a wireless lan between two pc (both running redhat 6.1)
using two Wavelan IEEE turbo (now call orinico) and two range extender.
I wanted to test what sort of speed i could get over the wireless link,
using ftp if first tryed 'get a22kfile /dev/null' I get rate between
100kbyte per sec and 640kbyte per sec. which i am happy with
but when i try bigger file the performance goes down completely:
'get a300kfile /dev/null' or 'get a 1Mfile /dev/null' give rates around
1kbyte per second, and i can't figure out what the problem is?
I have look through old post in the newsgroup but could not find
anything useful.
thanks for any help
regards
Jerome
--
Jerome Corre
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Jerome Corre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ftp performence over wireless lan
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:20:01 GMT
hi,
I have set up a wireless lan between two pc (both running redhat 6.1)
using two Wavelan IEEE turbo (now call orinico) and two range extender.
I wanted to test what sort of speed i could get over the wireless link,
using ftp if first tryed 'get a22kfile /dev/null' I get rate between
100kbyte per sec and 640kbyte per sec. which i am happy with
but when i try bigger file the performance goes down completely:
'get a300kfile /dev/null' or 'get a 1Mfile /dev/null' give rates around
1kbyte per second, and i can't figure out what the problem is?
I have look through old post in the newsgroup but could not find
anything useful.
thanks for any help
regards
Jerome
--
Jerome Corre
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Paul D. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: basic question(s) on libc5 vs. libc6
Date: 17 Oct 2000 10:41:15 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
%% Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
jk> and libc4 (a.out) to libc5 (elf) wasn't a major shift? didn't the
jk> same issues come up?
I don't think the _same_ issues came up.
Sure, there was pain associated with a.out->elf but little of it seemed
to revolve specifically around shared library versions, as I recall.
Everyone seemed to be quite comfortable with the fact that if you were
switching object file formats, you need a new version of the library and
you need to recompile the code...
Plus, of course, the Linux user base was much smaller (and, on average,
had a higher geek-factor? :) for the a.out->elf shift than it was for
the libc5->glibc shift.
--
===============================================================================
Paul D. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
===============================================================================
These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve O'Hara Smith)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: new windowing system
Date: 17 Oct 2000 14:58:44 GMT
Mark H. Wood ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: In comp.windows.x Brian Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: [snip]
: > There's another reason: for the joy of it ;) I wrote a perl module which
: > wrote bytes to X...just to see if I could do it :)
: It's called "hack value" -- the justification for work whose cost
: exceeds the value of its tangible results.
Otherwise known as a 'learning excercise'.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Development-System Digest
******************************
