Linux-Development-Sys Digest #639, Volume #8 Thu, 12 Apr 01 13:13:15 EDT
Contents:
Kernel summit Flask outcome? (Nicholas Geovanis)
Re: Via + Maxtor + kernel 2.4.3 = crash? (Mark Hahn)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Can we can change HZ from 100 to 10000? (Mark Hahn)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
BIOS Upgrades (Was: Via + Maxtor + kernel 2.4.3 = crash?) (Harold Stevens
US.972.952.3293)
Re: Limit in variable size in device driver? (Bob Hauck)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Gamma)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Gamma)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nicholas Geovanis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Kernel summit Flask outcome?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:23:13 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What was the outcome of the NSA/Flask pitch to the kernel summit last week
or the week before? I assume that the Network Associates takeover of work
on it means that the answer was "no", but I didn't hear. Thanks.
* Nick Geovanis
| IT Computing Svcs
| Northwestern Univ
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+------------------->
------------------------------
From: Mark Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Via + Maxtor + kernel 2.4.3 = crash?
Date: 12 Apr 2001 15:48:24 GMT
> I tend to think your configuration may have trouble doing IDE DMA at its
> maximum specced speed. This wouldn't be the first time VIA chipsets have had
it has nothing at all to do with speed. some bioses misconfigure the
via hostbridge, and this corrupts most busmastering IO (including IDE,
but also reported on some NICs.)
> this problem. I'd suggest first trying it with DMA disabled (this will
> severely hurt performance btw). If this works, then you might try looking
gross. flash an updated bios or turn off "optimum" settings in bios.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:00:33 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Gamma> And this is just for bare emacs; multiply all numbers by
> Gamma> around 8 or so for xemacs with news, ftp, fried okra, mashed
> Gamma> potatoes, etc...
> >> You want the additional functionality you have to pay something
> >> for it. Given that the VI user probably also has a news reader,
> >> an ftp client, a mail reader, uses CVS an so on as well, then I
> >> am not sure that the memory usage is that significant.
>
> Aaron> Maybe on academic machines.
>
> Aaron> Most corporate Unix machines NEVER have a new reader on them.
> Aaron> Many don't even have CVS, as they aren't used for
> Aaron> development.
>
> I thought that we were talking about memory usage here. If you
> don't use the news reader and so forth then obvious they do not add to
> emacs' memory footprint.
I'm talking about disk space.
And don't give me the "it's only 10 cents worth of disk space" routine.
Most applications are only a couple cents worth of disk space...but
that doesn't mean you clutter up your servers with every piece of
code you can find on the net.
>
> And if you are not using emacs for development, then I agree
> there is little point in using it. I mean I did use to use it only
> for email, but I am a little weird.
>
> Gamma> And 120 more bucks worth of install time if you're in a
> Gamma> consultant position and your client doesn't have emacs
> Gamma> installed, or has the wrong version.
> >> It takes me about 2 minutes to install a new emacs on my local
> >> system. Thats because I have taken care to write my emacs
> >> customisations (which are pretty extensive) well.
> >>
> >> If you move machines a lot then the advantage of VI clearly gets
> >> greater. In the same way people who swap machines rarely
> >> customise their desktop, or even their shell.
>
> Aaron> Clue for the clueless: consulting is where the BIG money is.
> Aaron> That means working on-site at up to half-a dozen different
> Aaron> client's locations within a week.
>
> My friend if money were my motivation I would not be working
> in the public sector now would I? I am fully aware of the of
> consultancy pay scales (not as good as they were now that IR35 means
> our consultants have to pay tax like everyone else!). Perhaps you feel
> I am clueless for not going after the big money? Perhaps I think you
> are clueless for going after the big money?
I have lots and lots of free time AND A comfortable lifestyle
>
> >> Or alternatively you get organised and take around what you need
> >> on a cd-rom, or put it somewhere that you can get hold of it
> >> easily.
>
> Aaron> And fuck up your client's storage management.
>
> Aaron> No thanks, I like being invited back for repeat business.
>
> I don't understand. In what way does sticking a cdrom
> onto a machine impact on storage management?
>
> Look this is getting into a bit of a daft holy war. VI is
> a great editor. I use it a lot, but I prefer emacs. They are very
> different editors, and of course they have advantages and
> disadvantages. Maybe your working life is different enough from mine
> that VI is the right choice. Fine. I do suspect though that if you
> wanted to use emacs you would find a way of getting round the
> problems, and they would be less of a problem than you think. If you
> are happy with VI you don't need to, then thats fine.
>
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Mark Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can we can change HZ from 100 to 10000?
Date: 12 Apr 2001 15:50:58 GMT
> I changed it from 100 to 10000. It seems working now.
> I can get 100 microsecond time interval by the new HZ.
this doesn't make much sense. first, rdtsc is the way to get
nanosecond timing. if you want 100 us timers (alarms), there
are also probably other better ways (for one, rtc can easily
give you 8 KHz, without totally destroying the efficiency of
the system/scheduler.)
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:04:49 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Aaron> Dragan Cvetkovic wrote:
> >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > If I moved
> >> around from machine to machine a lot (which > > I don't) then I
> >> would stick emacs with all my configuration and extra > >
> >> packages and anything else that I wanted onto a CD-ROM, and run
> >> it off > > there. > > In that case, you would have a lot of
> >> clients pissed at you.
> >>
> >> Why? he is saying he is going to run it from CD-ROM. Nothing gets
> >> onto client's hard disk.
>
> Aaron> run emacs get software upgrade distribution CD swap CD's want
> Aaron> to edit config files swap CD's want to do upgrade swap CD's
> Aaron> want to clean up config files swap CD's.
>
> Aaron> FUCK THAT!
>
> I don't understand I am afraid. I upgrade the packages for
> emacs probably a couple of times a month, as new versions come
> out. But on my laptop I do so much more rarely, say once every 6
> months, and would happily last for much longer.
>
> You could do it every year at Christmas.
>
> Config files would go onto the CD-ROM as I've said, so
> the clean up consists of removing the CD-ROM when you leave. Not
> hard.
>
> Phil
I'm talking about the config files of the SOFTWARE YOUR SERVICING
AT THE CLIENT SITE.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:05:03 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Aaron> Phillip Lord wrote:
> >> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> Aaron> Phillip Lord wrote:
> >> >> >>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron R Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>
> Aaron> Which means that as soon as your on a new machine, your stuck
> Aaron> editing WITHOUT your config file....
> >> >>
> Aaron> UGH.
> >> >> This is why God invented NFS mounted home spaces. >> >> Phil
> >>
> Aaron> And if your behind a corporate firewall which doesn't permit
> Aaron> NFS connections through it....
> >> Fortunately god also invented floppy disks.
> >>
>
> Aaron> emacs that fits on a floppy. you're kidding, right?
>
> We were talking about config files. 1.4M is a hell of a
> lot of lisp.
And the emacs executable????
>
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:05:35 -0400
Phillip Lord wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Thore" == Thore B Karlsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Thore> I _don't_ want the additional functionality! It's nice to
> Thore> have it, but as options, not as part of the standard
> Thore> package. I don't want 47MB worth of crud that I'm never going
> Thore> to use.
>
> Thore> Emacs should stick to being a text editor, not an application
> Thore> environment.
>
> >> I like it as an application environment.
> >>
> >> The idea of shipping a minimal emacs has been suggested for a
> >> while, on top of which you could add just the packages you use. I
> >> think that this would be a good idea, but I don't think that the
> >> woman power is there to do it at the moment. To be honest I doubt
> >> that it ever will be. 47MB of disk space is just not a lot these
> >> days.
>
> Thore> Sigh..
>
> Thore> So it's not a lot. It's still more than even Microsoft
> Thore> Office. It's more than DJGPP.
>
> Thore> That you in most cases have lots of space doesn't justify
> Thore> wasting it. I just don't buy into that philosophy.
>
> Neither do I.
>
> As I said I agree with you that reducing the amount of space
> that emacs takes would be a nice idea. The core would probably fit
> into 10M or so I think.
Translation: SEVEN floppies, not one.
>
> But at the moment emacs does not have an advanced package
> manager (XEmacs has something of the sort, but I don't know how good
> it is), which is what it would really need, as peoples favourite
> packages vary pretty widely.
>
> Saving space is generally a good idea, but there is a cost
> benefit pay off here. Writing a package manager, producing a minimal
> emacs, and packing up many of the current standard packages as
> optional ones, would be a lot of effort. Reducing the disk space
> requirement is I am afraid not as much of a pressing priority as it
> once was. It is a good idea, and would be a good thing, but at the
> moment its not that likely.
>
> Phil
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harold Stevens US.972.952.3293)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: BIOS Upgrades (Was: Via + Maxtor + kernel 2.4.3 = crash?)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:40:20 GMT
In <9b4io8$96n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mark Hahn:
[Snip...]
>gross. flash an updated bios or turn off "optimum" settings in bios.
On this topic, I need pointers on BIOS upgrades, especially where to find
them, as I haven't had any luck at all with Google to date.
Just added a 32 MB stick for a total of 64 MB as required by yast2 ("old"
yast needs less apparently) for a SuSE 7.1 install I've started.
Rebooting resulted in a kernel panic which I almost expected on these old
BIOS versions (Award 4.51PG i430VX) from reading threads I found. Figured
redoing LILO with the append="mem=64M" thingy was the ticket but a kernel
panic still resulted. OK, threads mentioned this may be a BIOS limit with
such old ones, so upgrade the BIOS. Simple. Not. After mergers and such I
could hardly find working vendor sites, and email totally ignored.
This is a point of dimishing returns for me, so any tips welcomed. Even a
"you can't get there from here" if the BIOS is too old; I'll just save us
all some time, and go back to yast instead of yast2, if it's moot.
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon the bogus email domain (dseg etc.) in place for spambots.
Really it's (wyrd) at raytheon, dotted with com. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Standard Disclaimer: These are my opinions not Raytheon Company.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Limit in variable size in device driver?
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:43:52 GMT
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 02:32:54 GMT, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now this whole thing is running on an ARM development board, not on
> the PC. So I got a way to boot the kernel from memory and not from the
> FLASH memory. When I boot the kernel from memory (that is, download
> the kernel over a network and then boot it there), there is no such
> error. Everything is perfect. The driver works properly too.
This would imply that there is something wrong with the boot code in
the flash. Presumably, you've got some code to copy the kernel image
into RAM, right? Does that code clear RAM or not? How does it handle
initializing variables? I'm thinking that maybe the larger array size
moves something else so that it ends up with a different value than it
does when loaded by the debugger.
Similar symptoms could also be caused by different linker scripts that
put the sections in a different order between the debug image and the
flash image.
> So does anyone have any ideas?
That's all I have, as an embedded developer with no experience booting
Linux from flash.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gamma)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:19:34 GMT
Hansang Bae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>For some things, editing with a rodent can actually save some time.
Occasionally, yes. I like it to browse a file in gvim using just one
finger on the mousewheel, as opposed to two fingers hitting <c-D> or
<c-E> or <c-F> (hey! DEF? I never noticed that). It's also useful
in non-gvim apps for moving to that graphical thingy over there (you
can't get there with a slash-something...). So it's necessary.
At the same time, it's a nuisance to have to take my hand off the
keyboard to use the mouse when I'm editing; I can literally feel my
brain slamming into a bottleneck because my next editing task is
delayed while I switch from keyboard to mouse and back.
>vi is like Reverse Polish Notation. It has a steeper learning curve but
>once you learn it, there's no going back. I was a die-hard user of EDT
>(funny, no one has mentioned it yet). I was a PFx hitting fool!! My
>Procomm 2.4.2 was programmed with all my favorite PF combos. Until I saw
>my prof edit my program with 'vi'. I kept asking, "hey, how'd you do
>that so fast???"
>
>I took my first HP41CV back to the store because (said I) RPN SUCKS!! AND
>WHERE THE HELL's THE ENTER KEY!!!!
You sure you didn't mean "equals key"? -All- the HPs have an Enter
key. :-D
You know, it's almost strange. Which came out first? The "equals"
calculators or the RPNs? I think if equals had been as popular as
they seem to be today, RPNs would never have been...
>Then I sat there as my classmates breezed through problem after problem
>while I was stuck in the (((())))) world. Went back, learned RPN and
>NEVER looked back.
Heh!
--
Paul Brinkley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gamma)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:06:45 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Syntax highlighting is useful for NOVICE programmers.
>
>Most experienced programmers have used one-color text
>for program code for years...
I beg to differentiate!
I've been coding for almost twenty years, and I like syntax
highlighting enough to have crufted up a couple of syntax files on
my own.
I'd say more, but John Hawkins pretty much said it all in a sibling
post.
--
Paul Brinkley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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