Hey Everyone, I haven't had the time to follow all these emails about volunteering/helping iglu, But I do have alot of free time, in general, and am willing to participate in any way I can. My servers, are only on two 128K ISDNs, so I can't really host anything big, but I can probaby administer some stuff and I am definately willing to provide hardware without charging my share wich means very low prices.
Thanx, On Monday 24 December 2001 14:35, Ely Levy wrote: > I agree with most of the e-mail but I don't think it should be so > aggressive. I had a long talk with Nadav harel last night, > about the purpose of iglu and the ways to accomplish that. > the diffrance is between what guy think the purpose is to what Omer > and me think it is. > > community?locale?hebrew?pushing linux?supporting newbies?meeting place for > expert?those things need to be defined in order for people to participate. > I strongly suggest in making a doc describing it having it vote on and be > put on as the "official" thing. > > then we could work according to a specific line that was chosen > > Ely Levy > System group > Hebrew University > Jerusalem Israel > > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Omer Zak wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, guy keren wrote: > > > > Would it save Guy's time (and the time of other busy volunteers) if > > > > newbie volunteer/s join and perform more routine tasks (if > > > > necessary,under the supervision of the oldtimers)? > > > > > > great. so nowi'll have to: > > > > > > 1. explain to people who to do stuff. > > > 2. fix their mistakes. > > > 3. run after them, checking what they did and that it's ok. > > > 4. go to actcom's offices every time someone breaks the system. > > > > > > sorry, i veto that, unless you do all the mentoring work, and find > > > someone else to go fix the machine after it breaks (and it will). i'm > > > willing to go fix the machine after it breaks only in 2 cases: > > > > Guy, sorry, I can't buy this rant anymore. > > On one hand you are ranting that people are not helping. > > On the other hand, you are erecting high barriers of entry for people who > > may justify spending time on helping. > > > > In any good organization based upon volunteer work, it is known that one > > of the benefits people get from volunteer work is the experience they get > > in the process.IGLU is not an organization, but the same principle > > applies. > > > > > 1. i broke it. > > > 2. i trust the person who broke it, and thus assume this breaking was > > >a possible (yet rare) accident. > > > 3. it was broken due to hardware problems. > > > > I suggested that the source code and scripts of the www.iglu.org.il be > > made available for read-only access.One of the things that people may > > volunteer to do (including me) is to make small improvements, which will > > eventually make the system more friendly to newbie sysadmins. > > > > > we have a mixed situation here - on one hand, this machine is supposed > > > to give a service, and people expect it to work. on the other hand - > > > its a sever for the community, and part of this is allowing the > > > community to learn about system administration. you're combining the > > > worst of both worlds :) > > > > I hope that adding one more goal will improve the situation: > > Develop tools which will make the serer easier to administer by newbie > > sysadmins - such as tools which will grep the logfiles and recognize > > 90% of the possible problems. > > Of course, this will be accomplished by volunteers who cannot make heavy > > commitment, but can contribute little bits of time here and there. > > > > > > How feasible is to keep a backup of the scripts and config files to > > > > be able to recover from newbie's screwups (except for the mirror > > > > disks, of course)? > > > > > > its feasible only if you're in a workplace, and cleaning up after > > > newbies is part of yourjob. its not feasible for remote administration > > > on one's spare time, unless one realy wants to do this cleaning up. > > > > One important part of oldtime volunteers' mission is to assist in getting > > new volunteers trained.Consider the above to be part of this mission. > > > > > so what this all comes to: > > > > > > 1. root password should only be given to people with experience, or > > > those that have proved useful and donated enough of their time, that > > > others will feel ok with cleaning up after them. > > > > No problems with that.Newbie sysadmins can still be useful if they > > routinely monitor system logs and the like - things which need only > > read-only access.The experienced sysadmin will then actualy do the > > fix-up work based upon information from the newbies. > > > > > 2. less-experienced users could be given a responsibility of > > > maintaining something that does NOT require root password, and that is > > > rather secluded. in this case, they still need to have experience as > > > linux users, and to be dependable. > > > > If you (or even the newbie) can tuck away a backup of the subsystem, then > > this won't be as critical.If it is not something that a simple tar xvf > > cannot restore, then let the community improve the subsystem until it > > becomes something that tar xvf can restore. > > > > > so i repeat- are there volunteers, or aren't there? so far all i see is > > > talking and general talking. behdad offered to write the run-rsync > > > shell script, and thus i'll forward the description of the script to > > > him. this still doesn't resolve the issue of actually maintaining the > > > mirror itself (and i'm reluctant to open accounts for people whose > > > sysadmining abilities i've never experienced - source code i can still > > > read before installing). > > > > Why not make the run-rsync script made available for all of us to read > > and comment?(Since now it has an "owner", I am now speaking about other > > scripts and configuration files). > > > > Either you keep things in secret from the general community and accept > > the price of not having many volunteers, or you open up and only then > > rant if enough volunteers don't come up. > > > > As I remember, when there were Linux booths in exhibitions, there were > > several volunteers.And those projects were as open to the community as > > possible. > > > > --- Omer > > There is no IGLU Cabal.Some volunteers were too busy to volunteer to > > manage other volunteers.So more volunteers were not getting trained or > > supervised.So only experienced volunteers could further the goals of > > this nonexistent organization.When they all died off due to old age, > > well, this was the end of it. > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html > > > > > > ================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ================================================================= > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
