On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 18:58, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:And how much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company?
"Tal, Shachar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Easily doesn't mean a sysadmin for a day. Easily means not having toDisclaimer: I have not used ClearCase myself. However, I have an
invest considerable man-power into making cvs and diff and branches
and IDE integration and nightly building and whatnot work
together. YMMV for the definition of considerable.
impression that, for one reason or other every company that uses Clear
Case also has a full time "software configuration" *team* whose
purpose in life is making ClearCase work for the developers. This
does not mean that ClearCase is bad, wrong, or anything. This just
means that it probably fits someone's definition of "considerable
man-power".
You can throw a team on ClearCase maintenance, but without first reading the books they will spend all their time poking around in vein. Most of my time spent on ClearCase involves going through the logs to see one more time that it does what it's supposed to do. Oopss... forgot. I do not do it anymore. I have a script that alerts me if something funny is going on.
I will repeat my last sentence:At one company I worked for (about 15 developers) an internal effort
was undertaken to write a system for hourly/nightly build of multiple
versions of software kept in CVS, at least on two platforms. It took
some effort (one person, I don't really remember how much time it
took, maybe a week?), but it worked smoothly afterwards. Probably
still works, years later - I don't know. Note also that the build
system fit the particular development cycle and practices of the
outfit - an out-of-the-box solution would not necessarily fit that.
It can be setup in ClearCase in 5 minutes. Create a bunch of dynamic views each with it's own brunch and script the hourly/nightly builds inside each view. Couple of one-liners will suffice. What is the cost of weeks work of a decent sysadmin ?
How much did the time it took you to learn to do that, cost your company?
The time it took my sysadmin at previous work to master ClearCase (and teach everybody else the ClearCase Way (tm) to do things) is roughly 2 months her time and ~1 day each person to learn that dreaded UCM.
Shachar.Now, consider this. Just a few days ago a friend, who is a
"configuration manager" for a big and well-known unnamed company,
complained informally that ClearCase (which has its own filesystem
implemented by Rational as a binary only kernel module) does not
co-exist well with that company's corporate standard kernel
configuration. And they cannot do anything about it until the vendor
(IBM in this case) fixes the problem. I surely hope the vendor will
provide a solution in time (until the client's standard kernel
changes). Again, this is not as much to criticize ClearCase as to
point out that this is something a multibillion dollar company would
surely deem "considerable".
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