On Sunday 18 April 2004 22:05, Ira Abramov wrote:
> Quoting Shlomi Fish, from the post of Sun, 18 Apr:
> > > these are not hitech worker hours, people :-)
> >
> > Well, we cannot start them at 19:00 or 19:30 because that would mean
> > we would be way into the night at 21:00 or 21:30... 18:30 is the best
> > compromise and this one time Eddie made it earlier to accomodate for
> > the Holocaust Day.
>
> let's see...
> my photography club meetings on Monday, run 20:00-22:00.
> my Photography lectures on thursday run 18:00-21:30.
> Meditation night on wednesday is 20:00-23:30...
>
> what's wrong with those hours?
>
That they are way off into the night? There may be some children or teenagers
who wish to attend the lectures (this was the case in Haifux). These hours
are too late for them. They are also too late for people who need to rise
early in the morning the next day. They are too late period.
> > Furthermore, I define _good_ Info-Tech Worker Hours as a 40-hours week
> > (8 work hours per day - 9 to 5 or something similar).
>
> you must not have left the university walls lately.
Perhaps, but I still have learned a few things since then.
> I have been working
> 300 hour months, especially at Startups.
Then you were overworked, under-productive and probably unhappy.
> some places put 9 daily hours
> in the contract and still expect 10 at least.
Such places are not run well.
> show me 8 hours a day and
> a good salaray and I'm sure it will be some governemnt job or something.
> almost nobody in the private sector HiTech works like that, other than
> maybe service-oriented people.
>
Just because the majority of workplaces are doing something, doesn't mean it's
right.
> Luckily, this is what I am, I work 8-17 (still, 9 hours a day), but
> today we had a sales meeting, one of those monthly things that are
> always set at the ed of the work day so as not to disappear on the
> clients for too long). At least it was fun, I talked to a bunch of
> salesmen about how to make money in Free Software and GNU/Linux
>
I'm glad you enjoy it. I'm sorry you missed the lecture, which was also very
nice. However, we cannot accomodate for your needs in this regard.
And I'm glad your hours are reasonable (9 hours/day). Again, 8 hours are the
optimum.
Joel Spolsky once described this over-employment hours as
"Work-T.V.-Sleep-Work-T.V.-Sleep" (i.e: no life in between).
> > leading methodologies such as Extreme Programming or Peopleware
> > demonstrate, one is not going to achieve more productivity working
> > over-time.
>
> tell that to a startup-hopping entrepreneur. most of them work their
> people 10-12 hours a day.
>
Many startup entrepreneurs are clueless in regards to team management (or
other areas). I suppose that as a worker in such a workplace, I can try to
educate them about research that was conducted in this area by more educated
people before them. If not, I'll probably try to find a better place.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
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Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage: http://shlomif.il.eu.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
[Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.]
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