At Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:25:56 +0200,
Vasiliev Michael wrote:
> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 16:30, Danny Lieberman wrote:
> > Gilad
> >
> > No arguments there - the best programmers I ever had the privilege to
> > work with were either engineers or physicists - mostly physicists :-)
> > In other words;  a Computer Scientist is like a Musicologist - they
> > perform theoretical study of the field and are equally likely to be
> > proficient performing musicians or programmers
> >
> > However it may be instructive to compare professional musicians and
> > professional programmers (btw many programmers play)
> >
> > 1. musicians practice all the time and learn by emulating other
> > performers as part of their theoretical studies
> > 2. CS student who "emulate" are thrown out for cheating (hackers emulate)
> I disagree with that statement to some point. The very goal of studies, as 
> traditionally presented, is to learn to emulate or "model" your teacher in 
> solving problems of some sort. This barely gives you the tools to solve 
> problems of sort unknown to you, to which no theory still exists, or draw new 
> theories. However, musicians are given tools and ways to know to play all 
> existing music and composers know how to compose new music of known or 
> unknown style and it still sounds like music.
> There is a nice book called "The Programmers' Stone", by Alan G. Carter and 
> Colston Sanger. The autors try to understand what's going on in a mind of a 
> programmer. Nice reading.
> 
> > 1.musicians are trained to play together in groups of 2, 3 ,5 ,7, 17 etc..
> > 2. CS students might do a 2 or 3 man project once or twice - working
> > together is called "cheating".
> Well they still do it, most of the time. Ideas belong to a group, only the 
> implementations are different. The very difference is that you can't compare 
> their way of thinking. Ordinary good musicians are "packers", great 
> programmers and composers are clearly "mappers". Also an interesting thing is 
> that long-time team coworkers tend to generate identical ideas, 
> simultaneously, as they share the same "map".
> 
> > 1. musicians can sit in with a professional ensemble and play from the
> > chart in their first year
> > 2. CS students cant even dream of working in a professional programming
> > team in their first year
> Most CS students. Some programmers never feel the need to study CS, as in to 
> go to university. Define me what you call a successful programmer, then we'll 
> talk. :)
> 
> > 1. musicians learn from the conductor in many different rehearsal
> > settings every day
> > 2. CS students learn from books or peers, the notion of a  "prgrm
> > rehearsal doesnt exist
> Yet. We don't really know what makes a good programmer, do we? So far we are 
> as close to making one as showing a student what other people do in hope he 
> does the same. Doing it Better(tm) is something entirely different. Few 
> musicians become composers, a fraction of composers become good composers. 
> One or two of these are remembered 100 years later. CS is IMO still too, too 
> young to draw any lines or make conclusions.
> 
> > 1. music is the ultimate open source - over 1000 years old?
> I beg You pardon? That's the most flagrant underestimation since Mercutio's 
> famous last words. The Ancient Greeks knew almost everything we know about 
> music which they connected to math. The history of music goes back to tribal 
> cave sounds around the fire and the invention of the bow, which is believed 
> to be an early prototype of the harp. :)

On the other hand, with current copyright laws and recording campanies
behaviour, modern music is very far from open source.

> 
> > 2. ergo programmers have a lot to learn from musicians
> 
> So, the question is, can you really compare? ;)
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely Yours,
> Vasiliev Michael
> 
> NP: XMMS is not loaded.
> 
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