On 03/07/2018 07:06 AM, Morten Rasmussen wrote:
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 04:22:18PM -0600, Jeremy Linton wrote:
To do this correctly, we should really base that on the cache
topology immediately below the NUMA node (for NUMA in socket) >> or below the 
physical package for normal NUMA configurations.

That means we wouldn't support multi-die NUMA nodes?

You mean a bottom level NUMA domain that crosses multiple sockets/dies? That
should work. This patch is picking the widest cache layer below the smallest
of the package or numa grouping. What actually happens depends on the
topology. Given a case where there are multiple dies in a socket, and the
numa domain is at the socket level the MC is going to reflect the caching
topology immediately below the socket. In the case of multiple dies, with a
cache that crosses them in socket, then the MC is basically going to be the
socket, otherwise if the widest cache is per die, or some narrower grouping
(cluster?) then that is what ends up in the MC. (this is easier with some

That is more or less what I meant. I think I got confused with the role
of "DIE" level, i.e. that top non-NUMA level, in this. The DIE level
cpumask spans exactly the NUMA node, so IIUC we have three scenarios:

1. Multi-die/socket/physical package NUMA node
    Top non-NUMA level (DIE) spans multiple packages. Bottom NUMA level
    spans multiple multi-package nodes. The MC mask reflects the last-level
    cache within the NUMA node which is most likely per-die or per-cluster
    (inside each die).

2. physical package == NUMA node
    The top non-NUMA (DIE) mask is the same as the core sibling mask.
    If there is cache spanning the entire node, the scheduler topology
    will eliminate a layer (DIE?), so bottom NUMA level would be right on
    top of MC spanning multiple physical packages. If there is no
    node-wide last level cache, DIE is preserved and MC matches the span
    of the last level cache.

3. numa-in-package
    Top non-NUMA (DIE) mask is not reflecting the actual die, but is
    reflecting the NUMA node. MC has a span equal to the largest share
    cache span smaller than or equal to the the NUMA node. If it is
    equal, DIE level is eliminated, otherwise DIE is preserved, but
    doesn't really represent die. Bottom non-NUMA level spans multiple
    in-package NUMA nodes.

As you said, multi-die nodes should work. However, I'm not sure if
shrinking MC to match a cache could cause us trouble, or if it should
just be shrunk to be the smaller of the node mask and core siblings.

Shrinking to the smaller of the numa or package is fairly trivial change,
I'm good with that change too.. I discounted it because there might be an
advantage in case 2 if the internal hardware is actually a case 3 (or just
multiple rings/whatever each with a L3). In those cases the firmware vendor
could play around with whatever representation serves them the best.

Agreed. Distributed last level caches and interconnect speeds makes it
virtually impossible to define MC in a way that works well for everyone
based on the topology information we have at hand.

Unless you have a node-wide last level cache DIE level won't be
eliminated in scenario 2 and 3, and could cause trouble. For
numa-in-package, you can end up with a DIE level inside the node where
the default flags don't favour aggressive spreading of tasks. The same
could be the case for per-package nodes (scenario 2).

Don't we end up redefining physical package to be last level cache
instead of using the PPTT flag for scenario 2 and 3?

I'm not sure I understand, core_siblings isn't changing (its still per
package). Only the MC mapping which normally is just core_siblings. For all
intents right now this patch is the same as v6, except for the
numa-in-package where the MC domain is being shrunk to the node siblings.
I'm just trying to setup the code for potential future cases where the LLC
isn't equal to the node or package.

Right, core_siblings remains the same. The scheduler topology just looks
a bit odd as we can have core_siblings spanning the full true physical
package and have DIE level as a subset of that with an MC level where
the MC siblings is a much smaller subset of cpus than core_siblings.

IOW, it would lead to having one topology used by the scheduler and
another used by the users of topology_core_cpumask() (which is not
many I think).

Is there a good reason for diverging instead of adjusting the
core_sibling mask? On x86 the core_siblings mask is defined by the last
level cache span so they don't have this issue.

I'm overwhelmingly convinced we are doing the right thing WRT the core siblings at the moment. Its exported to user space, and the general understanding is that its a socket. Even with numa in package/on die if you run lscpu, lstopo, etc... They all understand the system topology correctly doing it this way (AFAIK).

Yes. IIUC, MC is always equal to package or node on x86. They don't have
DIE in their numa-in-package topology as MC is equal to the node.

+       }
  const struct cpumask *cpu_coregroup_mask(int cpu)
+       int *llc = &cpu_topology[cpu].cache_level;
+       if (*llc == -1)
+               find_llc_topology_for_cpu(cpu);
+       if (*llc != -1)
+               return &cpu_topology[cpu].cache_siblings[*llc];
        return &cpu_topology[cpu].core_sibling;

If we don't have any of the cache_sibling masks set up, i.e. we don't
have the cache topology, we would keep looking for it every time
cpu_coregroup_mask() is called. I'm not sure how extensively it is used,
but it could have a performance impact?

Its only called when cores come online/offline (AFAIK).

Yes, it seems to only be used for sched_domain building. That can happen
as part of creating/modifying cpusets as well, but I guess the overhead
is less critical for all these case.

@@ -221,6 +255,7 @@ static void update_siblings_masks(unsigned int cpuid)
        struct cpu_topology *cpu_topo, *cpuid_topo = &cpu_topology[cpuid];
        int cpu;
+       int idx;
        /* update core and thread sibling masks */
        for_each_possible_cpu(cpu) {
@@ -229,6 +264,16 @@ static void update_siblings_masks(unsigned int cpuid)
                if (cpuid_topo->package_id != cpu_topo->package_id)
+               for (idx = 0; idx < MAX_CACHE_CHECKS; idx++) {
+                       cpumask_t *lsib;
+                       int cput_id = cpuid_topo->cache_id[idx];
+                       if (cput_id == cpu_topo->cache_id[idx]) {
+                               lsib = &cpuid_topo->cache_siblings[idx];
+                               cpumask_set_cpu(cpu, lsib);
+                       }

Shouldn't the cache_id validity be checked here? I don't think it breaks
anything though.

It could be, but since its explicitly looking for unified caches its likely
that some of the levels are invalid. Invalid levels get ignored later on so
we don't really care if they are valid here.

Overall, I think this is more or less in line with the MC domain
shrinking I just mentioned in the v6 discussion. It is mostly the corner
cases and assumption about the system topology I'm not sure about.

I think its the corner cases i'm taking care of. The simple fix in v6 is to
take the smaller of core_siblings or node_siblings, but that ignores cases
with split L3s (or the L2 only example above). The idea here is to assure
that MC is following a cache topology. In my mind, it is more a question of
how that is picked. The other way I see to do this, is with a PX domain flag
in the PPTT. We could then pick the core grouping one below that flag. Doing
it that way affords the firmware vendors a lever they can pull to optimize a
given machine for the linux scheduler behavior.

Okay. I think these assumptions/choices should be spelled out somewhere,
either as comments or in the commit message. As said above, I'm not sure
if the simple approach is better or not.

Using the cache span to define the MC level with a numa-in-cluster
switch like some Intel platform seems to have, you could two core being
MC siblings with numa-in-package disabled and them not being siblings
with numa-in-package enabled unless you reconfigure the span of the
caches too and remember to update the ACPI cache topology.

Regarding firmware levers, we don't want vendors to optimize for Linux
scheduler behaviour, but a mechanism to detect how closely related cores
are could make selecting the right mask for MC level easier. As I see
it, we basically have to choose between MC being cache boundary based or
physical package based. This patch implements the former, the simple
solution (core_siblings mask or node_siblings mask) implements the

Basically, right now (AFAIK) the result is the same because the few machines
I have access to have cache layers immediately below those boundaries which
are the same size as the package/die.

Agreed, I'm more worried about what vendors will built in the future.

Yes, and that is why I posted this rather than the code below, because I was leaving vendors a way to compensate for less regular machines.

I'm ok with tossing this patch in favor of something like:

const struct cpumask *cpu_coregroup_mask(int cpu)
    const cpumask_t *node_mask = cpumask_of_node(cpu_to_node(cpu));
    if (!cpumask_subset(node_mask, &cpu_topology[cpu].core_sibling))        
       /* not numa in package, lets use the package siblings */
       return &cpu_topology[cpu].core_sibling;
    return node_mask;

I would prefer this simpler solution as it should eliminate DIE level
for all numa-in-package configurations. Although, I think we should consider
just shrinking the core_sibling mask instead of having a difference MC
mask (cpu_coregroup_mask). Do you see any problems in doing that?I'm
My strongest opinion is leaning toward core_siblings being correct as it stands. How the scheduler deals with that is less clear. I will toss the above as a separate patch, and we can forget this one. I see dropping DIE as a larger patch set defining an arch specific scheduler topology and tweaking the individual scheduler level/flags/tuning. OTOH, unless there is something particularly creative there, I don't see how to avoid NUMA domains pushing deeper into the cache/system topology. Which means filling the MC layer (and possible others) similarly to the above snippit.

Mostly, because I want to merge the PPTT parts, and I only added this to
clear the NUMA in package borken....

Understood. Whatever choice we make now to fix it will be with us
potentially forever. So unless we have really good reason to do things
differently, I would prefer to follow what other architectures do. I
think the simple solution is closest to what x86 does.

Sure, that sounds familiar... ;)

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