Linux-Misc Digest #280, Volume #19 Wed, 3 Mar 99 13:13:18 EST
Contents:
Re: Cable Modems with Linux (Bob Deep)
Re: CRON problem (Walter Strong)
Re: scanning program for Linux (Edwin Johnson)
Re: damn bastards (Walter Strong)
Re: Create a DOS bootdisk in using only Linux (Adrian Hawkins)
Re: linux kernel 2.2.1 (Gary Hodges)
Re: Help Working under w95 but not under RH 5.2 Linux ("Timothy Chu")
Re: AOL Instant Messanger (Neil Zanella)
Re: Segmentation fault ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Programs ("Peter Caffin")
Watching a telnet session ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: FreeBSD vs LINUX (Alexander Viro)
Partition-It from Quaterdeck (Symantec) (Dennis)
Re: StarDivision StarOffice Comments? (Jim McCusker)
Re: What is a good site for Linux Kernel news and information?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
scanning program for Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: RPM manager ? (Gerald Willmann)
Re: Who is actually running Linux on IBM MOdel 80 PS2? (Frank McKenney)
Re: lilo gone (Jason Rotunno)
Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion (Craig Kelley)
Redhat logout problem ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Deep <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.linux,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Cable Modems with Linux
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:40:17 +0000
Bill Unruh wrote:
> Use IP Masquarading of the first computer to the second Linux machine
> connected to the cable modem and the net.
It is possible that this would violate your agreement with the cable
company and it is possible for them to tell you are doing this.
So... They may shut you down for Masquarading for another box, but I
doubt they would even notice...
-= bob =-
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Strong)
Subject: Re: CRON problem
Date: 3 Mar 1999 14:37:00 GMT
Thaddeus L. Olczyk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: OK this is simple to explain difficult to diagnose.
: I am logged in as root, and have schedualed cron
: jobs ( one a simple mail command ) using crontab -e.
: They jobs simply don't run. Any idea why not?
: PS I'm using RedHat 5.2 with no major changes
: to the installation.
They're probably not scheduled, despite your belief that they are. What,
exactly, did you do to schedule the jobs? Post the steps you took and
someone can tell you what went wrong.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edwin Johnson)
Subject: Re: scanning program for Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 3 Mar 1999 14:18:40 GMT
Look at www.mostang.com/sane and you will find the scanners it supports.
This is the Linux equivalent of TWAIN. I use it with a Nikon and it works
very well.
...Edwin
On Wed, 03 Mar 1999 03:17:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Before I buy Linux, I just wanna make sure that there is a free piece of
>scanning software available for download. I have Presto Page Manager that came
>with my scanner for Windows 98 but not for Linux. Anyone out there know of one
>4 linux that's any good? Thanks.
>
>Sincerely,
>Omar
>
>PS. Please reply 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Edwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
~ http://www.prysm.net/~elj ~
~ ~
~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~
~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~
~ for there you have been, there you long ~
~ to return." -- da Vinci ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Strong)
Subject: Re: damn bastards
Date: 3 Mar 1999 02:43:52 GMT
Mr. Tinkertrain ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: (feel free to completely ignore and disregard this message)
Who is this "free" character that we have to feel in order to ignore your
posting? I would not like to be him/her.
: i hate those morons who say 'x-windows' instead of 'x-window'. ignorant
: fools.
"x-window" doesn't really roll of the tongue. I prefer "x", as in, "I
use x."
: also, those dumbasses who say 'LIEnux' instead of 'LIHnux'... what the
: FUCK?! and you try to convince em that they've got it all wrong and
: they just won't listen... bastards. execute em all!!
I just pronounce it "linux", or "Dave" depending on what dialect I happen
to be targeting.
: just my 2 cents. not that anyone should give a fuck or anything!
pesos perhaps.
------------------------------
From: Adrian Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Create a DOS bootdisk in using only Linux
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 21:51:47 -0600
I think this almost may have worked. Here's what I figure:
Since the files have to be run in a DOS filesystem, I would have to already have a
DOS bootdisk. So I used DOSEMU and mcopy to get the Makedisk program on a DOS disk.
Yet, I won't be able to do the .144 disks, because they are too large to put on the
disk and then extract. I also can't access the linux partitions on my HD from dosemu
because they are all dos native. (I could do it if they were dos partitions though.)
Anyway, just wanted to let you know how that project went. Thanks!
G�rard Milmeister wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:13:59 -0600, Adrian Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Is it possible to create a MSDOS bootdisk using Linux only? Is there a
> >boot image out there to do this? Or are you better off finding a
> >DOS-box and creating one there?
> >
> Maybe you could take a look at http://www.caldera.com. There
> you can download the full DR-DOS on DOS disk images that you
> can copy onto your disks.
>
> --
> G�rard Milmeister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Tannenrauchstrasse 35
> 8038 Z�rich
> Switzerland
> +41 1 481 52 48
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Hodges)
Subject: Re: linux kernel 2.2.1
Date: 3 Mar 1999 15:10:02 GMT
There is a file that comes with the 2.2.x kernels <Documentation/Changes>
that you should read. The Red Hat site also has good info on upgrading to
2.2.x kernels. Everything you need should be available from their web site.
Gary
APPANAH Ravi ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Hi !!
: I've installed RedHat 5.1 on my PC (Pentium II 300 Mhz). The
: kernel is v2.0.34-6.
: I got the kernel v2.2.1
: I have several questions :
: - Can i use RH5.1 with new kernel 2.2.1 ?
: - I make the new kernel and put it on a floppy disk.
: During the boot, i have a kernel panic message... :
: Request_module[block-major-3] : Root fs not mounted
: VFS :Cannot open root device 03:05
: Kernel panic : VFS : Unable to mount root fs on 03:05
:
: Can't understand ?
:
: - Where can i find modules utilities for kernel 2.2.1 ?
:
: Tanks for your Help...
: Regards,
: APPANAH Ravi.
: -----------------------------------
: APPANAH Ravi
: EolRing International
: Validation Support Produit
: 10, rue Alfred Kastler
: 14000 Caen - France
: Tel : +33 (0)2 31 06 19 75
: Fax : +33 (0)2 31 06 19 76
: Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: -----------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Timothy Chu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Help Working under w95 but not under RH 5.2 Linux
Date: 3 Mar 1999 02:50:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.networking Rajat & Papia Goon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: note : my card is also ne2000 compatible. Shall I try to load ne2k-pci.o
: module with IRQ 8 and base address
: 0xe800. I haven't try this option.
: Thank you in advance,
Yes, I'd try that. That's what I'm using for my network card, and it
isn't a lot of trouble to re-compile the module. You didn't mention if
you've tested out this card under anohther operating system to make sure
the IRQ and base address is correct.
--
,,*,,,,,______/|___,i__/~~, ,. ,.' To reply remove the 's' in my
o \` / ` email address [EMAIL PROTECTED]
o / ))) --_\ Vancouver, British Columbia
<tim>< ~~~\|----~~\ \ http://www.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca/spider/v8k1
------------------------------
From: Neil Zanella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: AOL Instant Messanger
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:09:42 -0330
Thanks.
Where can I get Tik from?
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Mykool wrote:
> Are you trying to install Java AIM? If so, why? Download Tik, the unix
> version. I've been using it for the past few months and works
> perfectly.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Segmentation fault
Date: 3 Mar 1999 15:35:58 GMT
In his obvious haste, Jeffrey S. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled thusly:
: Can someone tell me precisely under what conditions a segmentation fault can
: occur under Linux?
Segmentation faults occur when a program attemps to reference an illegal
pointer or area of memory.
The classic example is reading a variable referenced by a pointer in a
linked list, where the final pointer is NULL. So, no variables or structures
can be associated with that pointer, and it attempts to access an area of
memory that's out of bounds.
: I'm trying to find a particularly tricky bug in a C program and haven't been
: able to track it down. I compile the exact same source using M.S. Visual
: C++ 6.0 under Windows NT and gcc (ver 2.7) under Linux (Slackware
: distribution, kernel version 2.0.27). The program runs fine under NT, but
: crashes with a segmentation fault under Linux. Furthermore, it crashes at
: different times in the program and can sometimes take the XTerm in which it
: is running down with it.
: The program is completely text (console) based and doesn't use any unusual
: libraries.
: It is fairly complex and includes a lot of allocation/copying/freeing of
: memory and complex array sorting.
Compile your program with the -g flag set in gcc.
Then, run the program in gdb.
When the segmentation fault occurs, it will tell you what line of the source
code the error occurred on.
Very usefull.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
| Andrew Halliwell | I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| Finalist in:- | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
==============================================================================
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e>e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
==============================================================================
------------------------------
From: "Peter Caffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Programs
Date: 3 Mar 1999 02:46:30 GMT
jik- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Course, Debian has the worst of both worlds :P
I started on Slackware and eventually moved to Debian. I haven't moved
back.
> It depends on a special package format...
You can easily install tarballs and can use RPM's if that's your thing.
Using the package manager just makes updating or removing things much
easier.
> AND is overly dificult to install.
I didn't think so. Besides, the ability to install the system off NFS and
FTP (aside from plain floppies or CDROM) is very useful :).
--: _ _ _ _
_oo__ |_|_ |__ _ | _ |_|_o _ pc at it dot net dot a u |
//`'\_ | (/_|(/_| |_(_|| | || | it.net.au/~pc |
/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Watching a telnet session
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 02:50:54 GMT
Is there a way to watch whats going on in a telnet session in real time? Just
curious
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs LINUX
Date: 3 Mar 1999 11:49:49 -0500
In article <7bjj9n$boh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. William Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Your question is still badly phrased. The one you want to be
>asking is "Is it possible to create a cross-compilation
>environment for FreeBSD on a Linux box". The answer is a "very
>likely". How difficult? Dunno; I've never tried gcc's cross-
>compilation capacities. I wouldn't be surprised if it were pretty
>easy, though.
>
>But, assuming you've built a kernel and booted, you're still stuck
>-- it'll try to run /sbin/init....and even if Linux keeps it
>there, chances are that program will just fall over and die. And
Even? Sure it keeps it in /sbin/init. Fall over and die?
*Very* unlikely. It doesn't use anything fancy - besides usual
open/read/write stuff it uses setsid(), fork(), exec(), sigaction(),
wait(), kill(), sleep() and syslog(). IIRC it uses libc to deal with
utmp (i.e. open/read/write/close again). Now, hardware-related stuff
in rc scripts will act funny. setserial, hwtime, hdparm and friends
will not work. But most likely you will be able to boot into
single-user. If init(8) will not work with FreeBSD kernel under it
I will consider it as bug in init. I.e. that would indicate that
thing does something *really* weird.
>if you fixed that, you'd find zillions of other things that won't
Mostly badly written scripts and explicit pathnames. There
is not too much code really using non-portable stuff - mostly
hardware and modules support.
>work unless rebuilt for FreeBSD. Some of that rebuilding will be
>simple cross-compiling; others will require actual code rewrites.
>In short, it's not a reasonable thing to do to try to graft Linux
>userland onto a FreeBSD kernel. It's likely *possible*. But not
>reasonable.
More or less agree, but it might be funny experience. Hmm...
OK, I'll play with it and will post the results.
>: Can FreeBSD work with ext2 file systems ?
>
>A guy I just hired tried to answer that question a few days ago,
>with his dual boot Linux/FreeBSD system. The answer appears to be
>"no".
Bullshit. It is trivial. If the kernel sees the slice and
your guy simply copied the corresponding stuff from LINT it will
mount ext2 happily. That is, if he didn't forget to rebuild the
kernel ;-/
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
------------------------------
From: Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Partition-It from Quaterdeck (Symantec)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:17:08 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Has anyone used this program to setup partitions and start various OS's
such as Linux, NT, 95/98? I need to set up a computer that can reliably
boot to these OS's and then recover the partition space when some of the
OS's are moved to other computers.
Thanks for any helpful information.
Dennis,
------------------------------
From: Jim McCusker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: StarDivision StarOffice Comments?
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:21:44 -0500
Vincent Fox wrote:
>
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jim McCusker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> *snip*
>
> [] The equation editor in StarOffice is *terrible*. This seems to
> [] be the case with several office suites for Linux I've tried. They
> [] are good enough for writing letters or maybe a simple term paper,
> [] but lack the features to handle complicated document needs.
>
> >That is what lyx is for. I wouldn't ever write anything with equations
> >(I have, and I didn't like it at all) under Word or anything like it.
> >The equation capabilites in lyx are unsurpassed by any word processors
> >that I have seen. And I would stick with that for any paper over 20
> >pages, just because I would lose track otherwise. :-)
>
> So what is this lyx and where can I get it?
Lyx (or Klyx, which isn't yet 1.0.0) is a document processor (as opposed
to a word-processor) that allows for a uniform appearance and style to
documents (which you can change). As someone else said, it is What You
See is What You Mean, meaning that the displayed layout is (somewhat)
optimized for the screen while you are typing it. If maximized, the text
will wrap at that width. The document is outputted as either LaTeX, DVI,
or postscript. Postscript files can be outputted directly yot hte
printer by typing "lpr filename"
Search for it on www.freshmeat.net, or browse to it through www.kde.org.
They will have it under KOffice, I think.
Jim
--
Jim McCusker | Class of '99, BA Computer Science & Cognitive Science
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://cif.rochester.edu/~fprefect
~Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it,
poorly.~
~~Henry
Spencer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: What is a good site for Linux Kernel news and information?
Date: 03 Mar 1999 11:42:25 -0500
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I thought I was keeping abreast of what was going on in linux but there
> are some holes in my information net. I am looking for a site(s) which
> lists things like new kernel releases and information as to what is
> different about the new kernel from previous kernels.
slashdot.org
freshmeat.net
lwn.net
www.linuxhq.com
--
Frank Sweetser rasmusin at wpi.edu fsweetser at blee.net | PGP key available
paramount.ind.wpi.edu RedHat 5.2 kernel 2.2.1 i586 | at public servers
The prayer of serenity applies here. To both of us. :-)
-- Larry Wall in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: scanning program for Linux
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 03:17:27 GMT
Hey,
Before I buy Linux, I just wanna make sure that there is a free piece of
scanning software available for download. I have Presto Page Manager that came
with my scanner for Windows 98 but not for Linux. Anyone out there know of one
4 linux that's any good? Thanks.
Sincerely,
Omar
PS. Please reply 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Gerald Willmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM manager ?
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:27:47 -0800
On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Luis Sousa wrote:
> there's glint as a generic X aplication, or kdepackage for KDE.
what's wrong with rpm itself? Much better than glint IMHO (don't know
about kdepackage).
Gerald
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank McKenney)
Subject: Re: Who is actually running Linux on IBM MOdel 80 PS2?
Date: 3 Mar 1999 17:01:21 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In <7bejar$9eb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Keys) writes:
>After 10 years of AIX, it may be time for an update on my aging PS/2
>model 80 servers. I would like to hear from anyone actually using
>Linux MCA ON IBM PS/2 model 80 machines with scsi or esdi controllers.
>In particular what exact bootdisks and distributions are you using,
>and where can I find them to make up a set of my own. Please, only
>those folks actually running these machines respond. I have tried
>many MCA disks, and they are all problematic. I would like to find
>out what actually works on particular Model 80 machines.
Bob,
You might to post a copy of this to the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware
newsgroup. Perhaps not as many Linux users, but _lots_ of PS/2 people
(some may seem a litte strage at first, but most are fairly nice (;-)).
For others who are thinking about installing Linux on PS/2s, the
following URLs have been mentioned recently in that group:
MicroChannel Linux Home Page
http://www.dgmicro.com/mca/
Linux on MCA / MCA (MicroChannel) discussion groups
http://www.dgmicro.com
http://www.utdallas.edu/~swadlow/ps2linux/instruct.html
I'm sure that DejaNews or AltaVista could turn up others.
Hope this helps...
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates / OS2BBS OS/2 Advisor
Richmond, Virginia (804) 320-4887
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / TalkLink: WZ01123
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Rotunno)
Subject: Re: lilo gone
Date: 3 Mar 1999 16:52:57 GMT
thanks for the replies...i boot up off floppy, mount the hard drive and
run lilo. the problem is that it always looks for /etc/lilo.conf and not
/mnt/etc/lilo.conf. i've tried lilo /mnt/etc/lilo.conf but it still
looks to the wrong directory. i copied /mnt/etc/lilo.conf to /etc, but
when i run lilo i get
Sorry, don't know how to handle device 0x0100
Hans Wolters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: On 2 Mar 1999 21:44:10 GMT, Jason Rotunno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >i have a machine which is dual boot linux/95. i reformatted and
: >reinstalled the 95 partition. doing this wrote over the MBR (is this
: >right?) so that now the machine boots directly into 95 w/ running lilo to
: >select which OS to boot into. how is it possible to restore lilo. now
: >that i think about it...maybe booting off a linux boot disk, mounting the
: >linux partition and reinstalling lilo...?
: You're almost there. Indeed you should boot from a bootflop and run
: /sbin/lilo. You don't have to reinstall it.
: Hans
: --
: Java Search Engine Front End
: http://home.gelrevision.nl/~h.wolter/
: Linux Links/CMI8330 Soundpro HOWTO
: http://home.gelrevision.nl/~h.wolter/linux.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:18:09 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 3 Mar 1999 08:35:29 GMT...
..and Stefaan A Eeckels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK. Let's have objects (not programs) as execution entities. Let's
> have them permanently available. A shell (for lack of a better word)
> that allows you to string objects together. You'd have an "editor
> object" that would be used for all editing functions, instead of
> a bunch of programs that have their own editors. I'd like to see
> a mail interface that can be dynamically constructed from available
> "objects": an editor, a mime handler, an information organizer, etc.
> It should be possible to construct a news reader from the same
> components, dynamically. Not a huge editor that does everything
> through LISP - more a computerized Lego.
Has it occurred to you that basic Unix tools strung together with
pipes, backquotes etc. are pretty much like objects? SIAG Office uses
this kind of 1970s' "Unix OO" in a glorious way, check it out.
mawa
--
Level 1 - Physical Layer
User codes Linux device drivers. Does not have a life.
-- Cliff Pratt
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 03 Mar 1999 10:14:52 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels) writes:
> >> The UNIX API is about the best when using the process/flat file
> >> paradigm. Current OO languages are kludgy hybrids because they're
> >> layered on top of this ancient paradigm - we need an OS that
> >> hosts objects and orchestrates object interaction across
> >> networks, not ORBs on top of UNIX and its little brother NT :-)
> >> I fear that PC's having become commodities has made such a major
> >> shift impossible (as such an OS will definitely *not* run
> >> Word).
> >
> > Let's hear some examples. It's very easy to speak about how an OS
> > should "host objects", but what would be the most substantial change?
> > Let's just hear the first thing that pops into your mind.
>
> OK. Let's have objects (not programs) as execution entities. Let's
> have them permanently available. A shell (for lack of a better word)
> that allows you to string objects together. You'd have an "editor
> object" that would be used for all editing functions, instead of
> a bunch of programs that have their own editors. I'd like to see
> a mail interface that can be dynamically constructed from available
> "objects": an editor, a mime handler, an information organizer, etc.
> It should be possible to construct a news reader from the same
> components, dynamically. Not a huge editor that does everything
> through LISP - more a computerized Lego.
UNIX does the above for command-line purposes. If you replace
'object' with 'file' or 'stdio' (depending on the method or instance)
in the above paragraph, you pretty much have a definition of UNIX.
Where UNIX gets into problems is with the graphical interface (what is
an $EDITOR object? how do you embed it into your application?).
Heck, the mail example is commonly used in UNIX text books.
Now, when you say that you want programs to be objects you still
haven't said anything about change. A program, by some defintion of
object, is already one in UNIX: It has methods, instances and data
all rolled up into a quantum thing. Again, what are you going to
change? -- just give a simple, detailed example (maybe with
pseudocode?).
As far as I'm concerned, this *is* a computerized lego:
cut -f1 -d: /etc/passwd | tail +15 | sort | uniq | mail -s "here's our
user list" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I also
> > don't buy the comment that "secure locking and transaction are just a
> > MESS" (its an implementation issue, not UNIX-related): again, lets
> > have something concrete rather than more CS philosophy, purist, tao
> > guru nonsense (yes, I am a computer scientist as well).
>
> I didn't say that.
Sorry, the person you followed up to did. (and I was directing my
comments to him)
> I did say that the UNIX API (including locking),
> is about the best you can get when you have a UNIX-like OS (processes,
> flat files, expensive RAM=process, cheap disk=file). Win32 is not
> the future, it's a bad copy of the UNIX API (there, I had to get that in :-).
>
> I'm always irritated when I hear people talk about OO design, when it
> is patently impossible to implement such a design on the current
> (mainstream) OSes, because these deal with processes and files, not
> with objects.
What is an object? At some point it is going to be serialized. UNIX
simply allows full control over when this happens. If you want to
design an OS that hides the serialization of objects -- you had better
put a lot of thought into it so that control isn't lost.
A UNIX programmer can *decide* to objectify their applications when
appropriate, but they don't always have to do so. At the processor
level, everything is going to look like C (a glorious macro-assembler,
IMO) anyway so why not let the programmer decide where to abstract?
It doesn't require more work on his part because there are already
numerous libraries for those who prefer (smalltalk, anyone?).
As for locking, I still do not understand why an objectified OS would
be able to do a better job. It may appear more elegant to the kernel
author, but as for functionallity... what does it buy you?
> The same applies to functional languages - the final
> result is a "program" that deals with "files". Whether it be Haskell, C++
> or assembler, the end product remains a program, that I have to
> launch from a shell.
And you wouldn't need to launch objects? (Unless there is a system
object called 'esp' which know when you want to do something...)
Has Haskell caught on, or are you just from Scandanavia? :) I know
one of the authors (Lennart).
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Redhat logout problem
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 16:47:48 GMT
Hello, I am new to Redhat and I have a small problem. I am running Redhat
5.2 with init level 5, so XWindows starts when I start up the workstation.
When I logout, I usually use the mouse button and select quit. The problem I
am having is that the xload increases everytime I logout and log back in. I
compared the processes running in the background using using "ps aux" and it
seems that several processes gets added whenever I logout and log back in.
Eventually, the computer performance really slows down and I have to reboot.
I am not sure what I am doing wrong. Can someone suggest something for me to
try? Thanks.
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
