Linux-Networking Digest #383, Volume #12 Fri, 27 Aug 99 10:14:32 EDT
Contents:
Re: remote backup? (Johannes Niess)
Re: Problem installing RH60 over network (Laurie Robert Young)
Complication in routing (much detail) (Stuart Summerville)
Extra Information ("Henry van Deest")
Re: Problems to connect to a SUSE Linux 6.1 via ftp (Christian Hofinger)
Two Nics Required? (Cj)
Ignore (Ben Vince)
ppp bad-configure/rej: (Bill Dossett)
Hardware required for a firewall machine (yan seiner)
PPP Dial-up Help Please: (Poohba)
Re: Sendmail " mailbox name not allowed " (Andrzej Filip)
Re: Problem with 3C509 card (Laurie Robert Young)
Volume spanning with ext2??? (Raymonds Doetjes)
Re: Problem with 3C509 card (Laurie Robert Young)
Can/should a firewall be used as DHCP server (Jorge O. Martinez)
ipchains (on the subnet) ?? ("yiying")
Re: Samba's last stand! ("Dacara")
Re: <URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED> 1.27 MILLION packet collisions! (Yan Seiner)
Re: advice on PC ? (David Crooke)
Re: <URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED> 1.27 MILLION packet collisions! (Asuka)
Re: Two Nics Required? (Thomas Kaemer)
Re: Compaq Onboard Ethernet ("Walter Harms")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Johannes Niess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: remote backup?
Date: 27 Aug 1999 12:47:02 +0300
"mikes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have two linux computers hooked up with a cross-over cable. The one
> computer, my server, has a tape drive in it running taper 6.9a, the other
> computer is my firewall. I would like to make an archive of my firewall to
> tape. Is there a Howto that tells you how to do a remote back up?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike
Mike,
Get a good backup system: www.amanda.org
Johannes Niess
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Laurie Robert Young)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Problem installing RH60 over network
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:14:40 GMT
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:11:31 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Peacock)
wrote:
>Hello.
>
>I've recently downloaded RedHat 6.0 off of a mirror site for the
>distribution and have run into some problems installing it. I was
>wondering if anyone else has had this same problem.
>
I always find it easiest to use a CD to install - if you have access
to a CD writer RedHat make avaliable the image file to write an
installation cd - though I am afriad I don't know the url
or www.cheapbytes.com sell the installations CD (with 3 cd full of
software) for a very cheap price
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Summerville)
Subject: Complication in routing (much detail)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:21:56 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
I've just setup a Redhat 5.2 Linux box as a gateway for a local subnet
connecting to the inet. The link comes up ok, default route is set
properly, access from the gateway to both local and inter net is
operational, but boxes sitting on the local net cannot reach the inet.
Reading other posts in this ng, checking that ip-forwarding is enabled
seems to be a common problem. Sure enough, ip_fwd in
/etc/sysconfig/network was set to "no". The kernel has been built with
ip_forwarding enabled/added.
Network config:
|
|
LOCAL NET | ISP
x.x.x.0 | y.y.y.0
|
+-+ x.x.x.2 |
|C|O------------O x.x.x.1 |
+-+ +-+ | y.y.y.1 +-+
|L|O------------|-----------O|D|
+-+ y.y.y.2 | +-+
|
ISP assigned local subnet of x.x.x.n (is actually a 4 node subnet
(/30) but the netmask *is* configured properly). ISP has configured
their router to route packets to x.x.x.n to my gateway (Box L).
In local subnet: Linux gateway (Box L) eth0 ip = x.x.x.1. single local
net host (Box C) ip = x.x.x.2.
ISPs Dialin box (Box D) ip = y.y.y.1.
Linux gateway ppp0 ip = y.y.y.2.
After ppp link established:
default route: GW=y.y.y.1, DEV=ppp0, with UG flags.
lo route: as usual.
local net route: DEV=eth0
Host route (to y.y.y.1 gw): DEV=ppp0, with UH flags.
Pings to/from (C) and (L) work fine.
Pings from (L) to y.y.y.1 and yyy.2 work fine.
Pings from (C) to y.y.y.2 works fine.
But, AARRGGHH, Pings from (C) to y.y.y.1 don't work.
tcpdump of eth0 on (L) shows that (in pinging y.y.y.1 from (C)) icmp
packets are reaching eth0 of (L) from x.x.x.2 to y.y.y.1. This is (I
assume) a good sign.
tcpdump of ppp0 on (L) shows no such icmp packets going anywhere.
(Note that this same tcpdump window will show icmp packets when (L)
pings y.y.y.1)
My ISP says that the route of x.x.x.0 packets to my link is working. I
almost believe this as I can do anything from (L). Could this be
because its source address is y.y.y.2 and not x.x.x.1? Presumably if
the routing of my ISP was crapped, then the former would still work,
but the latter wouldn't.
Note also that doing a traceroute from (L) to y.y.y.1 sees traceroute
complain that it has two interfaces to choose from, and picks, by
default, eth0, resulting in no trace. Running the same traceroute
forcing source ip address to be y.y.y.2 sees the trace work properly.
Does this suggest that the route to my subnet at my ISP is not
configured properly? is there something wrong with my linux config?
A tcpdump of ppp0 interface on (L) for pings originating from an
external machine (X) show some interesting results. A good ping from
(X) to y.y.y.2 shows some bizzarre acks going on between the two
nodes, before successful icmp echo request & reply handshakes.... A
bad ping from (X) to x.x.x.1 (or even x.x.x.2), however, shows this
exchange of bizarre acks happen multiple times, & then nothing. Not
sure what this means, other than that something's $%^&ed.
Anyone any ideas?
Thanks for your time/help.
Stu.
==============================================
Stuart Summerville
Home: stus@<nospam>netspace.net.au
Work: stuart.summerville@<nospam>icpdd.neca.nec.com.au
==============================================
------------------------------
From: "Henry van Deest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Extra Information
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:21 +0200
By the way :
I have a 24hours connection with the internet, with always the same
IP-Adress, through Ethernet.
Maybe this is handy to know when you answer me.
Henry
Henry van Deest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
7q5pq2$hcp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hello,
>
> I'm having a Linux-machine here (Suse 6.1).
> This machine became my Internet-gateway for my other 4 machines
(windows98).
>
> It all works great ! -> Http, FTP, Mail, ICQ
>
> The only thing that won't work is Netmeeting. I can call somebody; he gets
> my picture through the webcam, but I can't hear or see the other party.
>
> It's also not possible to call me with netmeeting.
>
> Does somebody know what I can do about it ?
>
> I'm a beginner with LINUX, so please not to complicated, and please in
> readable English !
>
> Thanx !!!
>
> Henry
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> ICQ: 19022294
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Christian Hofinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Problems to connect to a SUSE Linux 6.1 via ftp
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:08:49 +0200
- no, as a normal user
- just started with yast but the same errors when logging in, but not
rebooted
Andrew Williams schrieb:
>
> - are you trying to come in as root? (normally not allowed)
> - have you started 'portmap'? (YaST, Network)
>
------------------------------
From: Cj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Two Nics Required?
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:13:25 -0400
Are 2 NICs needed to build a firewall on a home net, or can one be used with
a modem - eth0 and ppp0 ??
------------------------------
From: Ben Vince <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Ignore
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:30:57 GMT
Name :gERMAN cORRUPTED kILLaS �
� Your Serial :BCEEA46AC2C8CB55187C3C56 or �
� BCEEA46A47E2CB55857C3C56 or �
� BCEEA46A0DE1CB55BE7C3C56 or �
� BCEEA46A83E1CB55407C3C56 or �
� BCEEA46A03E0CB55C37C3C56 ! �
�
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: Bill Dossett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ppp bad-configure/rej:
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:26:02 +0100
Hi,
I've recently upgraded my old slackware system
to a RadHat 6.0 in Intel. I can't get the
ppp client to connect correctly to my ISP anymore
however. I've used linuxconf to set it up initially,
but now working with the scripts it has created and
making sure all my old ppp options from the slackware
system are identical it connects and during authentication
(I think) it fails with message
received bad configure-nak/rej: 03 06 c1 f3 e9 41
and I can't find any references to anything like
that anywhere to try and figure out why.
I am using PAP authentication, same secrets file
as I was using under slackware and same ppp options
file... I've tried teeking every known option now
and I get no change in the symptoms ever. I'm connecting
to a cisco rack of some sorts at the ISP... I do
get a remote message: ^F just before it connects ppp0
to ttyS0, not sure that that means, it gets the connect
clear as a bell, the chat stuff is all working fine.
Any ideas on what this could be? I've got debug on and
I'm checking messages, is there any more info anywhere else?
Any ideas on what this might be would be very much appreciated.
While this seems to be very easy to set up initially under
RedHat and was tons of work to set up under slackware,
at least the slackware worked at the end of the day.... I've
been hacking at this for 3 days now and it has the feeling
of not going to work ever for me.
Thanks
Bill
--
"It wasn't so much that he was a hero -
I'd say he was more of an effective administrator."
Tom Servo
------------------------------
From: yan seiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Hardware required for a firewall machine
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:51:01 -0400
I'd like to set up a separate firewall machine. My proposed setup is as
follows:
internet
|
dial-up modem
|
firewall ------- file server
|
-----------
clients
I am running 100 base T from the file server to clients. What sort of
horsepower do I need in the firewall? I need lots of throughput -
yesterday I was working on a 58 MB file.
The machine I have available is a p5/166 with 32MB RAM. It would have
an intelligent serial card. Can this hardware handle sustained
100mb/sec network loads?
I am running RH 6.0, 2.2.11 kernel, ipchains.
I'd appreciate any pointers to performance testing results.
Thanks,
Yan
------------------------------
From: Poohba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: PPP Dial-up Help Please:
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:55:04 -0500
I am trying to dial-up attworldnet but am having major problems. I
downloaded the actual process of setting up the script and everything
should be okay there but its configuring the kernel that I am having a
problem with. I am running 2.2.11 on redhat. If someone could please
tell me what I need to do with the kernel and if i need to download any
more modules or anything please let me know. If this is the wrong
newsgroup please let me know that too.
* Web Page Designs *
/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.io.com/~poohba\
---------------------------------------
\ For info about me send message with /
* subject "send file help" *
------------------------------
From: Andrzej Filip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.config,redhat.servers.general
Subject: Re: Sendmail " mailbox name not allowed "
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:24:51 +0200
Dominik wrote:
> I have got a full server system running well under RH 6.0
>
> I can send mail out to any domain with no errors. I can also receive mail
> from any domain except one specific one -- my ISP! When I try to send mail
> to my computer ( username@[ip-address] ) from my ISP's mail account, I
> receive the following error: "Action not taken; mailbox name not allowed."
>
> My spam filters are off and I have a fulltime DSL (static) connection.
>
> The ISP is running OpenVMS. Please help. Thanks.
Address format username@[ip-address] is not supported by
all mail servers.
try to use name returned by
nslookup ip-address
as email destination domain.
--
Andrzej (Andrew) A. Filip | Warsaw, Poland | fax: +1(801)327-6278
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bigfoot.com/~anfi
Postings: http://deja.com/profile.xp?author=Andrzej%20Filip
Who refuses a better job offer ?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Laurie Robert Young)
Subject: Re: Problem with 3C509 card
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:31:37 GMT
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:43:54 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Monte Phillips)
wrote:
>Jacky,
> I mean this in the kindest possible way: IF you do not know what and
>IDE is, GET THE HELL OUT OF LINUX! your going to mess something up
>badly.
>
>"BUYCK Jacky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>It's exact : the IRQ of my network card is 15 and it's the same of IDE1. But
>>what is IDE1 -> I've only one disk !
I think what is is ment is that with only 1 disk (presumably on IDE0)
there shoud be no need for IDE1
this is incorrect however since all modern motherboards (to my
knoledge) have two IDE busses 0 & 1, each capable of supporting 2
devices (a master and a slave)
------------------------------
From: Raymonds Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Volume spanning with ext2???
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:18:21 +0200
I want to add some extra free diskspace to my / mountpoint.
I know that there is a possibility to add free space to a mountpoint
with ext2 but how do I do that and wich tools do I need for that?
Raymond
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Laurie Robert Young)
Subject: Re: Problem with 3C509 card
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:41 GMT
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:17:21 +0100, "BUYCK Jacky"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It's exact : the IRQ of my network card is 15 and it's the same of IDE1. But
>what is IDE1 -> I've only one disk !
>
>Does anybody know how to change an IRQ of a network card ?????
>I have read somewhere that I need dos ???
>
The retail version of the 309 comes with a floppy that you can boot
from which will load a program enabling you to change the IRQ. If you
don't have this disk - you either need to borrow a copy of it or take
a look at the 3com web site and see if you can down load the necessary
files
It does use DOS - but this is contaned on the floppy i it will work
fine if you just have linux installed on the hdd
------------------------------
From: Jorge O. Martinez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Can/should a firewall be used as DHCP server
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:31:35 GMT
Hi there Linuxeros!
I have a project (network) that I must finish within the next few days, and
one of this network's vital components will be a firewall between my
private network, and an ADSL connection to the web. I got 5 static IP
addresses from my provider, so I am going to set up 5 different firewalls
for different 'depts.' so they are invisible to each other. Of course, the
firewalls will be Linux based.
I would like to use DHCP for the private network side, and I am wondering
if I can/should use the same box that I will use for the firewall as a DHCP
server...From what I have read, as many services as possible should be
disabled for the firewall, but I am wondering if the DHCP server would also
be a potential security hole...I wonder if I it can even be done as this is
my first firewalling project!
I'll be using Suse or Mandrake for the firewall...Or any other distro that
can get the job done! Suggestions are welcome on this issue too!
Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Regards,
Jorge M.
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: "yiying" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ipchains (on the subnet) ??
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:32:10 +0800
I got some problem when setting ipchains ...
env :
intra 1 : xxx.yyy.zzz.129-239
intra 2 : xxx.yyy.zzz.241-251
machine A have 2 adapter , ip:252, 253
eth1: xxx.yyy.zzz.252 netmask 255.255.255.240 -- intra 2
eth0: xxx.yyy.zzz.253 netmask 255.255.255.240 -- intra 1
default route : xxx.yyy.zzz.254
This machine A want to protect(isolate) intra 2 (225-251)
mean that all 225-251 have to pass machine A to other area ...
others have pass through machine A to reach 225-251
225-251 have
netmask 255.255.255.240
default router : xxx.yyy.zzz.252
others have
netmask 255.255.255.240
default router xxx.yyy.zzz.254
my ipchains configuration is ...
(in fact , only 2 machine under intra 2 : 248 & 250 )
=====================================================
# Accept all packet from intra 2 to outside
ipchains -A forward -s xxx.yyy.zzz.248 -i eth0 -j ACCEPT
ipchains -A forward -s xxx.yyy.zzz.250 -i eth0 -j ACCEPT
# Accept all others packet to intra2
ipchains -A forward -i eth1 -j ACCEPT
=====================================================
but, xxx.yyy.zzz.250 can't ping outside machine ...
machine A receive the packet form x.y.z.250 to outside form eth1...
but didn't forward the packet to eth0 to intra1 to go out ...
------------------------------
From: "Dacara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Dacara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Samba's last stand!
Date: 27 Aug 1999 09:28:56 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Clark) wrote:
>In article <7pifjo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Hiawatha Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I still can't get Samba to work right, but I think I'm making progress. I
>>just changed a line in smb.conf from security = user to security = share.
>>Suddenly, I can get into the Linux machine from the PC. But what I get is a
>>single file folder that I can't open. This folder has the same user name as
>>my PC; I created a user account on the Linux box with the same user name,
>>thinking that might help. Anyway, when I click on the folder, it says "The
>>share name was not found. Be sure you typed it correctly."
>
>I'm joining this thread rather late, but maybe a specific case would help
>clarify the issue...
>
>My Windows PC is named RCLARK. On my Linux box, my username is rclark, and
>my home directory is /home/rclark. Since [homes] in enabled in my smb.conf,
>when I look at the Linux share in the Network Neighborhood, I see a folder
>called Rclark [strange capitalization courtesy of Windows]. My SMB
>password is the same as my Linux login password.
>
>Mine is a plain vanilla setup: one that Samba is prepared to handle by
>default. :)
>
>However, if there is something not plain vanilla about the username, home
>directory, or password, this throws a monkey wrench in the works. One
>possibility is that your {Username} folder should not be /home/username, but
>/???/home/username on the Linux machine. If so, you need to tell Samba by
>manually editing smb.conf or using the SWAT tool.
>
>Also, in your samba directory on the Linux machine, in the var subdirectory,
>there should be a log.smb which could help diagnose the config problem...
>
>Hope this helps,
>Rob Clark, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.o2.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html
Also add
encript passwords = yes
to the [global] in SMB.CONF should help
------------------------------
From: Yan Seiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: <URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED> 1.27 MILLION packet collisions!
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:55:22 -0400
Try this:
saturate the network. I use a little script that copies one small file
(100K) and one big file (4MB), over and over. To the server, from the
server. Run this one one machine, and watch your network for collisons
and errors. Then run the script on a second machine, and watch
collisions and errors. Then on a third. With each machine added, you
should see a nearly linear increase in errors and collisions, until the
network collapses and ALL you get is collisions.
I usually run this to test servers and new workstations, to see how they
react and to see if there is any really flaky stuff on the network.
It's very crude, but it has helped me identify the occasional flaky NIC
or server misconfig.
Yan
Simon Green wrote:
>
> Nine in a minute is only one every few seconds -- which is not bad for
> Ethernet under load. If you try a file transfer, you'll find that the
> collisions go up a hec of a lot quicker than that (like several hundred in
> a minute if you've got fast computers). In short, this is not a problem,
> it's normal operation.
>
> If it *really* worries you, your options are to switch to some other LAN
> like Token Ring (which is hideously expensive, and only has 4M or 16Mbps
> options), or FDDI (which is even more expensive, and runs over optical
> fibre, and gives you 100Mbps). Both of these use a token passing system to
> guarantee no collisions... but it's not going to make any difference.
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> Asuka wrote:
>
> > I am running a web server running Redhat 5.2 on a T1 line using a 10/100
> > Bay Networks hub and a 3com 10/100 Ethernet card. Since the system came
> > online (a couple weeks ago) there have meen 1.27 million collisions and
> > it is growing very sparaticly but rapidly.... results range from 1
> > collison in five minuits to nine in one minuit. I don't know what would
> > be causing this (the rest of the network is running on NT, I have the
> > only linux box on there). The issue needs to be resolved ASAP so any
> > help ANYONE can give me would be more then appreciated.
> >
> > .asuka
--
__ __
| / /
/------/
-- / \ / \ --
/ /\ \ / /\ \
| / | \/--|-- |
\ / \ /
~~ ~~
"The older I get, the faster I was."
------------------------------
From: David Crooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: advice on PC ?
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:37:07 GMT
DirkBoy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know a PCMCIA lan card that will work under linux? Better yet,
> one that will work out-of-the-box with RedHat? Not that I'm lazy, but on a
> laptop with only either a cdrom(non-bootable) or a floppy I'm bit out of
> choices. : )
>
Many do, and the one I use is a 3Com 3C509B
--
David Crooke, Austin TX, USA. +1 (512) 656 6102
"Open source software - with no walls and fences, who needs Windows
and Gates?"
------------------------------
From: Asuka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: <URGENT ASSISTANCE NEEDED> 1.27 MILLION packet collisions!
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks much, I shall try that. Also in addition to that I was looking through
the archives of this NG and when someone had this problem they were told that it
was because their NIC was running at full duplex when they should be running it
at half duplex because hubs can't handle full. Taking that in to account, how to
I change it to run at half?
.asuka
Yan Seiner wrote:
> Try this:
>
> saturate the network. I use a little script that copies one small file
> (100K) and one big file (4MB), over and over. To the server, from the
> server. Run this one one machine, and watch your network for collisons
> and errors. Then run the script on a second machine, and watch
> collisions and errors. Then on a third. With each machine added, you
> should see a nearly linear increase in errors and collisions, until the
> network collapses and ALL you get is collisions.
>
> I usually run this to test servers and new workstations, to see how they
> react and to see if there is any really flaky stuff on the network.
> It's very crude, but it has helped me identify the occasional flaky NIC
> or server misconfig.
>
> Yan
------------------------------
From: Thomas Kaemer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two Nics Required?
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:30:27 +0200
Cj schrieb:
>
> Are 2 NICs needed to build a firewall on a home net, or can one be used with
> a modem - eth0 and ppp0 ??
Of course. But if you get a dynamically IP for the Internet you can
start the fw only after connecting your ISP. Try to do it in ip-up
script.
CU Thomas
------------------------------
From: "Walter Harms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Compaq Onboard Ethernet
Date: 27 Aug 1999 13:41:20 GMT
Tom Eastep <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>There are two common types of onboard NICs on Compaq systems - the
>system I'm sending this on uses the de4x5 driver.
>a) Dec 2114x which can use either the Tulip or de4x5 drivers.
>b) Netelligent adapters which use the tlan driver.
hi tom,
i have a problem with a compaq deskpro XL and sound. Its an ad1847 but
i dont get the driver (ad1848) loaded. Do you have a tip handy ?
walter
--
=====
"Can you get us down?"
"Down is not the problem!"
=====
------------------------------
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