On Tue, 18 May 1999, JF wrote:
> >
> > One of the things about using localhost as the SMTP server is that you
> > don't have to wait for Pine (or whatever other mail program that you use)
> > to transfer the mail to the server before you get back to the program.
>
> For now I've got it empty but it's in my plans to try this. Sounds like
> a good idea. To WHAT server would it be sending if I had it blank? EAch
> recipient's?
>
Your own. See, sendmail is the SMTP server program that many ISPs use.
If you leave the SMTP server section in Pine blank, what happens is it
uses 127.0.0.1:25, which is the address for localhost, and it goes to port
25, which is the SMTP port. From there, it's just like it would be if you
sending mail through your ISPs SMTP, except that it works a bit faster for
the user interfaces.
> > If
> > you use localhost, then what happens, is the program like Pine sends the
> > mail to sendmail on your computer. Sendmail then figures out how to route
> > the e-mail so that it gets to it's destination. Then it passes it to the
> > next computer. The next computer determines the route and then sends it.
> > It goes like that until the mail reaches the destination computer.
>
> You mean I'm NOT using SENDMAIL (on my box) if I don't specify localhost
> and have it blank?
>
If you have something in the SMTP server box on PINE that isn't localhost
or it isn't otherwise blank, then you're using someone else's sendmail
program-- or whatever SMTP server they run. I know of one ISP that runs
the following server:
220-matthew.totalink.net Microsoft SMTP MAIL ready at Tue, 18 May 1999 14:35:24 -0400
Version: 5.5.1877.977.9
Yuck! =(
>
> You have somehow divined my next and current big problem! I cain't get
> pine to take a user-id .... as it so kindly explains that thing before
> the @ -- or words to that effect. So I was getting (from
> pine-originated mailmessages) user-id for real name and then my local
> username for my e-mail address user id --- which doesn't work. I was
> able to send. but when I replied -- well, it mustsa gone to somebody's
> bit-bucket.
>
LOL... Probably the big bit-bucket in the sky ;).
Just make sure that you don't send using an incorrect name anymore. That
could really get you in trouble. I think I mentioned it earlier -- but I
almost got my ISP service terminated a few years ago when I had just
started with Linux and -- lo and behold, I was sending things as root.
Yuck! Everyone replied to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I was sent an email stating
that I get help or the admin would assume I was trying to be an imposter.
Well, I explained myself, and they helped me out. (That was my first help
encounter with Linux, BTW :-).
> Seems a bit inconvenient to have to match local user names with with
> existing e-mail user-id's. One such address is shared between an
> employee and me. (Small company -- one e-mail address for the company
> at this point.) Dunno why using my e-mail address and not having it
> match my local name would make other think I'm trying to mimick others.
>
Easy. Let's say that the registered account name in question is mtrausch.
The server is wcnet.org. I use on my local linux box the root account.
Here's what will happen:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| | |
| | + This is the configured hostname.
| + This is the at sign. (Duh!) :)
+ This is the local username, and this is what
shows up for reply-to as well. You're SOL if
your ISP disconnects you, becuase as with the
law, ignorance isn't an excuse.
> Let's say I want to access the same e-mail account from 2 different
> machines on a LAN or also from my remote computer with which one day
> soon hopefully I'll be able to do dialup networking with the office.
> This means I have to have users by the same name -- at least on my
> remote computer and an office computer to access that e-mail account.
> Can 2 of the same user names exist on a lan? Or. can 2 users -- both
> use a user-id and home-dir at different or perhaps even the same times?
It's all been thought of and it's all possible. It's UNIX. C'mon, the
operating system has 30 years of time-tested experience in it! :-) You
can even set up so that the /home partition is on a network, and both
machines use the same /home entry. Then the home dir is the exact same
physically on both systems and can be used at exactly the same time if
need be.
> I suppose it's mickey-mouse to have only one e-mail account, but I need
> to monitor the account and access it even if I did have different
> accounts. Wouldn't solve the problem!
>
> So anyway, I see that I now -- unless sendmail masquerading or some
> other solution exists -??- that I'll have to create a local user account
> matching my user-id of each e-mail account I have! -- and do this on
> each machine for each account I want to access from that machine. :-X
>
Well, see, if you will read manpages for fetchmail, there's a trick.
Also, there should be a program out there that can spoof the username on
all outgoing mails. I have no need for one so I am not certain... anyone
here know about one?
>
> > However, if this computer is a computer that's permanently connected to
> > the Internet, has it's own domain and everything, then you can do whatever
> > the heck you want to. :^)
>
> I see -- you mean I can create what ever and as many user-id's I want
> and do not depend on establishing them with an isp?
>
Right. Here's an example. Let's say that you have a computer located
with the IP address 255.255.255.255. (Alright, it's impossible to have a
computer there I know, but it's a number nonetheless.) Let's say that the
computer's IP is static, and the computer is connected to the Internet
through an Ethernet card which is, in turn, on a LAN on a T1. Anyway...
You can run as many servers as you'd like on this computer. Now, let's
assume that sendmail is running on the computer. Also, let's say that the
domain name is mycomp.com, and the hostname is penguin.
Now, you may create users for this computer. Let's say that you create
the user mtrausch. Now, there's an email account on this system, too...
it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] You don't need to register it with anyone else
becuase you're the God of mycomp.com.
Also, mtrausch can put web pages in his home dir in a directory called
public_html and, with the proper permissions, voila! mtrausch's web page
is accessable as:
http://mycomp.com/~mtrausch/
Or:
http://www.mycomp.com/~mtrausch/
or:
http://penguin.mycomp.com/~mtrausch/
Does that clear that one up? :-)
> >
> > Well, IMHO, there is no "sequence" to configuring things. Tweak as you'd
> > like. :) One of the things is that sendmail is not for console mail.
> > It's for all electronic mail that passes through your computer system.
> > There are a few different jobs that sendmail does:
> >
> > - When a user sends mail from pine or another UNIX client,
> > sendmail takes that mail and begins the transportation
> > process.
>
> I'm confused here --- isn't pine mail "console mail"?
>
Yes. You said something about sendmail being related to the console, and
I said that sendmail is in no way whatsoever related to the console, as it
never touches the screen. :-)
>
> And you mean the sendmail on that sending user's machine -- right?
>
Yes, in the statement above, sendmail refers to 127.0.0.1:25 (the sendmail
server on localhost).
> > - Depending on your setup, either fetchmail, or a sendmail
> > from another machine sends a mail to the computer, and
> > the local sendmail then takes the mail, and gives it to
> > procmail. Procmail, by the way, is what's called the
> > "delivery agent," in other words, it finds the mailbox
> > that a mail message is supposed to go to. You can set
> > up procmail so that it rejects messages, forwards mess-
> > ages, or does whatever you want, basically.
>
> that's cool and makes sense. BTW, is procmail the tool for
> auto-responding as well?
>
Yes. I used to have my procmail on wcnet.org set up to do that... but I
was (a) on vacation, and (b) not on any mailing lists at the time :^).
Boy would that have caused an endless loop of traffic!
> > - If your computer is permanently connected on the Internet,
> > and there are computers behind it on the network, then
> > sometimes, when another sendmail contacts your computer on
> > the Internet, your computer will look at the address and
> > say, "Hey... This mail is not for any of my users," and it
> > will look to pass the email on to another computer on your
> > network.
>
> what agent on my computer would be doing this?
>
sendmail
> > > be missing something really basic here as indicated by your advice to
> > > use localhost as the smtp server. (now that I'm in linux I can bypass
> > > my mailhost's smtp services to SEND and still use their
> > > myhostname@theirdomain as my reply to: / from: address?!?
> >
> > Yes, you can. There is one line in /etc/sendmail.cf that you need to
> > change that needs to reflect the hostname of whatever mail system that you
> > are sending as.
>
> you mean my isp's domainname? can you tell me what line? masquerading
> perhaps?
>
# my official domain name
# ... define this only if sendmail cannot automatically determine your
domain
#Dj$w.Foo.COM
Dj$myisp.com
Just make a line that says Dj$myisp.com, where myisp.com is the part that
shows up after @ (the domain name).
> > Take note, however, if you're sending from network A, and
> > you're using the address of network B, some spam filters may say, "Wait a
> > minute, this came from network A, but it says that it's from network B,"
> > and it may get confused and just plain reject it. Be careful how you set
> > it up.
>
> okay -- though I haven't a clue at this point.
>
Example:
I'm logged into wcnet.org and I'm sending mail as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
However, if I switch and say, dial into GlobalCenter, and I still send as
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and not as [EMAIL PROTECTED], then there's a
problem. Some machines will say, "Wait. This really came from
primenet.com, not wcnet.org! I'm rejecting it because of the
inconsistancies." That's all I said above ;-)
> > > I see no option in pine to specify a different reply to address.
> >
> > You can't. You can change the part after the @ sign if you'd like,
> > though.
>
> Well, I can in netscape messenger and any other gui e-mailer (windows,
> os/2 etc.) I've ever seen. What's the distinction that causes this
> inflexibility?
>
Because of the fact that you're using standard software to do it.
Netscape, and other programs for Windows have to have the server side of
everything built in since Windows provides for no type of system for that.
If it eases your mind any, certain Windows NT mailers are just as picky as
UNIX mailers. ;) It's called security. :)
> Is netscape using sendmail to transport?
>
> > > And in sendmail I see no place where I would supply a password for the
> > > smtp host. I don't need one?
> > >
> >
> > No! SMTP doesn't use passwords!
>
> I was beginning to suspect as much. thanks.
>
POP3 uses passwords; SMTP does not. There's really no reason for it to.
:-)
> > > You can tell I'm sure that I'm really confused and missing something
> > > very basic.
> > >
> >
> > That's quite alright. One of the things is that there is many levels of
> > things yet for you to leran. Just as long as you're patient about it, and
> > you're willing to learn, then you can do just about anything with Linux.
> > :-)
>
> Yeah -- I'm loving learning about it. But it's taking me a LONG time to
> set it up. By and by I'm getting a functional system. But after 4 months
> of using linux I'm still not fully migrated out of NT. but I've got
> communication scripts, dialup networking, database stuff to sort out --
> not to mention finding basic apps for word-processing, graphics and the
> like. And I'm still working on basic stuff -- such as the e-mail
> problems we're talking about. But I'm blown away with how stable and
> un-bloated linux is compared to windows -- and how much seems to be
> available already. Quite different than the dirth of apps that I didn't
> find in OS/2 in my pre-NT days. One other key thing for me is getting
> ftape working. That'll make it safer to migrate.
>
ftape is something that someone else will need to help you with. I live
life on the edge and just use prayer to prevent anything from happening
:-). Besides, I don't have $$$ for a tape backup (or any type of backup
for that matter.)
> > One of the things about UNIX and UNIX-like operating systems is that
> > they're based on something called "open standards." Open standards help
> > to get the world on its feet and running. If we didn't have open
> > standards, we wouldn't have things like SMTP, the UNIX mailbox format, or
> > simple hardware protocols.
>
> Yes! And isn't the opposite the proprietary urge to snare us in such as
> Microsoft and others have been running on us?
>
Yep. You know what I hate about closed standards? You have an interface
to them (sometimes), but you never see how they're built. Until someone
disassembles the code and learns, finds a weakness, and then exploits it.
:-)
It's called "Security by obscurity" and it doesn't work. Oh, well.
> >
> > Gotta love it, eh? It sure does make things MANY times easier when you're
> > administering a system that isn't all that complicated. :-)
>
> Yep! I can conceive of it though it's not yet a reality for me since so
> much is still new and I have so much to learn. I sure do like the linux
> way of configuring things compared to the win registry database way.
>
Ugh! Don't get me started on that evil registry. Ugh.
My old Windows registry couldn't fit on a floppy disk! With UNIX, I've
got MORE settings to adjust, yet, I can fit all my configuration files
onto a floppy disk in a .tar.gz'd file. Heh.
> > No problem. It's called, don't be shy and ask a lot of questions. That's
> > the best way to learn things :-).
>
> Well, I appreciate your advice to do so -- and, as you can see from the
> above, I yam! :-)
>
LOL :-)
I'm glad that you are. I'm glad that my knowledge is helping somebody
else out :-).
> Jamie Faunt
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Trausch
President of Linux Operations, ADK Computers
----------------------------------------------------------------
ADK Computers, Walbridge Office E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Scattered showers my ass!" - Noah
