On Thursday December 15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I can, but I suck at putting these things down in writing, which is
> why my initial description was intentionally vague and shallow :-).
> Now, I'll try anyway. It'll be imprecise and I'll miss some things
> and show up late with major points etc., but at least I will have
> tried =).
Thanks for trying.
>
> Ok.. Starting with the usage output:
>
> $ mdadm
> Usage: mdadm --help
> for help
>
> Nothing wrong with that. Good, concise stuff. Great.
>
> The --help output, however...:
>
> $ mdadm --help
> Usage: mdadm --create device options...
> mdadm --assemble device options...
> mdadm --build device options...
> ... snip ...
>
> ... I find confusing.
I like the suggestion of adding one-line descriptions to this.
How about:
Usage: mdadm --create device options...
Create a new array from unused devices.
mdadm --assemble device options...
reassemble a previously created array
mdadm --build device options...
create or assemble an array without metadata
mdadm --manage device options...
Make changes to an active array
mdadm --misc options... devices
report information or perform miscellaneous tasks.
mdadm --monitor options...
monitor one or more arrays and report any changes in status
mdadm device options...
same as --manage
>
> Moving right along:
>
> ... snip ...
> mdadm --manage device options...
> mdadm --misc options... devices
> mdadm --monitor options...
> ... snip ...
>
> I find it very unhelpful to have a --misc section. Every time I'm
> looking for some command, besides from having to guess in which
> section it's located, I have to check --misc also, since misc can
> cover anything.
Yes, I can see how that is confusing.
The difference between 'manage' and 'misc' is that manage will only
apply to a single array, while misc can apply to multiple arrays.
This is really a distinction that is mostly relevant in the
implementation. I should try to hide it in the documentation.
>
> ... snip ...
> mdadm device options...
> ... snip ...
>
> Where does that syntax suddenly come from?
> Is it a special no-command mode? What does it do? Hmm. Confusing.
>
> And btw, why mention "device" and "options" for each and every
> section/command set/command when it's obvious that you need more
> parameters to do something fruitful? In my opinion it would be better
> to rid the general --help screen of them and instead specify in brief
> what functionality the sections are meant to cover.
well. it is "device options" for all but misc, which has
"options ... devices..."
but I agree that it is probably unnecessary repetition.
> I keep typing mdadm --help --assemble which unfortunately gets me
> nowhere. A lot of the times it's because the general help text has
> scrolled out of view because I've just done an '--xxx --help' for some
> other command. Maybe it's just me, but a minor improvement could be
> to allow '--help --xxx'.
That's a fair comment. I currently print the help message as soon as I
see the --help option. But that could change to: if I see '--help',
set a flag, then for every option, print the appropriate help.
Then
mdadm --help --size
could even give something useful...
>
> ... snip ...
> For general help on options use
> mdadm --help-options
> ... snip ...
>
> Like misc, I think this is an odd section. Let's explore it's contents:
>
> $ mdadm --help-options
> Any parameter that does not start with '-' is treated as a device name
> ... snip ...
>
> To me, the above is very interesting information about mdadm's syntax
> and thus should be presented at the start of the general --help
> screen.
>
> ... snip ...
> The first such name is often the name of an md device. Subsequent
> names are often names of component devices.
> ... snip ...
>
> This too.
>
> What's with the "often" btw?
mdadm --examine /dev/md1 /dev/md2 /dev/md3
subsequent names are names of other md devices, not component devices.
> It is somewhat more helpful to me if parameters is an exact science.
> Eg. the above could say, "for commands affecting whole arrays, the
> first device name is the name of the MD device while subsequent device
> names refer to component devices". Or preferably something a little
> more concise.
>
> ... snip ...
> Some common options are:
> --help -h : General help message or, after above option,
> mode specific help message
> --help-options : This help message
> ... snip ...
>
> Those are not interesting at all, we've already used those to get here.
> And both are mentioned in the general --help screen. Snip 'em if
> you ask me.
Fair comment. They are there for completeness, but not really needed.
>
> Next on the agenda, I find the messages that I get from mdadm when I
> make syntactic blunders confusing. I think it comes from the fact
> that mdadm is run like this (example): 'mdadm -f' instead of 'mdadm
> --manage -f'. It means that the error message I get when I try to do
> something is way off, because mdadm thinks I'm doing something
> completely different than what I'm actually trying to do. I would
> much prefer having to specify an extra word (fx. --manage) for firing
> an actual mdadm command if that would give me useful error messages.
> Having to look through a bundle of documentation for commands I'm not
> even interested in just to try and figure out what mdadm thinks I'm
> trying to make it do is not funny.
I'm not sure exactly what you are thinking here, but I will try giving
mdadm some erroneous arguments and try to improve what it says.
>
>
> There you go.. initial thoughts.
>
> Sorry for all the negativism, hope at least it's useful for something
> constructive!
Yes, very useful, thanks.
>
> The CLI is probably overkill, better help screens can probably do the
> trick for me.
Well, lets see if we can improve the help screens first...
(Note: there are other comments in the email that I haven't directly
responded to. That doesn't mean I disagree or anything, just that I
didn't respond to them).
Thanks,
NeilBrown
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