Linux-Setup Digest #496, Volume #19 Mon, 28 Aug 00 04:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows (Loren Petrich)
Re: Lilo error (Guy White)
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Re: BIOS-->hdb-->LILO-->{linux(hdb);windows(hda)} (Eric)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: 28 Aug 2000 07:09:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This who XML hysteria worries me. We have people thinking that it is
>something other than a very inefficient text based file format. Example:
[a somewhat verbose one]
As to examples, check this one out, which is the way I've
implemented configuiration files (or more precisely, MacOS resource-fork
contents) for the open-source version of Bungie's Marathon engine
(source.bungie.org):
<marathon>
<interface>
<!-- Cyan box displays for ammo -->
<color index="0" red="0" green="1" blue="1"/>
<color index="1" red="0" green="0.1" blue="0.1"/>
<!-- Modify the assault rifle's bullet display to look like the fusion
gun's -->
<weapon index="3">
<ammo index="0" type="1" across="52" delta_x="50" delta_y="40"
bullet_shape="0" empty_shape="1"/>
<ammo index="1" right_to_left="0"/>
</weapon>
</interface>
<motion_sensor>
<!-- S'pht'Kr look like hostile players -->
<assign monster="36" type="2"/>
<assign monster="37" type="2"/>
</motion_sensor>
<overhead_map>
<!-- F'licktas are honorary Bobs -->
<assign_live monster="33" type="0"/>
<assign_live monster="34" type="0"/>
<assign_live monster="35" type="0"/>
<assign_dead coll="11" type="0"/>
<!-- Hide the Juggernauts -->
<assign_live monster="38" type="-1"/>
<assign_live monster="39" type="-1"/>
<assign_dead coll="2" type="-1"/>
<!-- Show everything showable -->
<aliens on="true"/>
<projectiles on="true"/>
<items on="true"/>
<paths on="true"/>
<!-- Fun with colors; make the polygons and lines cyan -->
<color index="0" red="0" green="0.4" blue="0.4"/>
<color index="8" red="0" green="1" blue="1"/>
<color index="9" red="0" green="0.8" blue="0.8"/>
</overhead_map>
<infravision>
<!-- S'pht'Kr look friendly -->
<assign coll="11" color="1"/>
<!-- Gray walls -->
<color index="2" red="0.3" green="0.3" blue="0.3"/>
</infravision>
<animated_textures>
<!-- Couldn't think of what to put in here -->
</animated_textures>
<control_panels>
<!-- Water rechargers giving more energy and sounding like oxygen
recharger -->
<panel index="1" type="2" pitch="0.25">
<sound type="0" which="10"/>
</panel>
<panel index="2" type="3" pitch="0.5">
<sound type="0" which="10"/>
</panel>
</control_panels>
<platforms>
<!-- S'pht Door sounding weird; also, give health an seem like picking
something up -->
<platform index="0"
start_extend="12" start_contract="1" stop_extend="13" stop_contract="2"
obstructed="17" uncontrollable="19" moving="10">
<damage type="7" base="-10" random="3"/>
</platform>
</platforms>
<liquids>
<!-- Jjaro liquid a bit strange... Pfhorian appearance, Pfhor-staff
healing, weird into/out-of effects...-->
<liquid index="4" transfer="19" damage_freq="7" submerged="3">
<damage type="1" base="-1" random="0"/>
<sound type="0" which="24"/>
<sound type="1" which="25"/>
<sound type="2" which="27"/>
<sound type="3" which="28"/>
<sound type="4" which="3"/>
<effect type="2" which="0"/>
</liquid>
</liquids>
<faders>
<!-- Picking up stuff will look very interesting... -->
<fader index="7" type="5" initial_opacity="1" period="120">
<color red="1" green="0" blue="1"/>
</fader>
<!-- If hit by a Pfhor bolt... -->
<fader index="13" type="3" initial_opacity="1" period="60">
<color red="0.5" green="1" blue="0.5"/>
</fader>
<!-- Make water nearly-opaque cyan; make the sewage look like an
alien-weapon hit -->
<fader index="29" type="0" ><color red="0" green="0.5" blue="0.5"/></fader>
<liquid index="0" fader="29" opacity="0.8"/>
<liquid index="2" fader="24" opacity="0.8"/>
</faders>
<!-- More energy, less oxygen; vulnerable to F'lickta claws when
invincible -->
<player energy="300" oxygen="8100" stripped="100" light="0.1"
oxygen_deplete="-18" oxygen_replenish="-3" vulnerability="14">
<!-- Add a SMG and some ammo -->
<item index="1" type="34"/>
<item index="4" type="35"/>
<item index="7" type="35"/>
<!-- Hunter bolt looks like Pfhor, induces VacBob hit and death sounds,
causes flaming death -->
<damage index="12" threshold="-1" fade="13" sound="205" death_sound="203"
death_action="8"/>
<powerup infravision="1800" extravision="900" invisibility="2400"
invincibility="3600"/>
</player>
<view>
<!-- Expand the range and make the change rate slower -->
<fov normal="90" extra="160" tunnel="15" rate="1"/>
</view>
<weapons>
<!-- Make SMG look like assault rifle, but with antigravity -->
<shell_casings index="4" seq="19" vx0="0.03" dvy="0.1"/>
<!-- Rearrange the weapons; interchange SMG and alien weapon -->
<order index="5" weapon="6"/>
<order index="8" weapon="9"/>
</weapons>
<items>
<!-- Can pick up more SMG ammo -->
<item index="35" maximum="16"/>
<!-- Make a 1x recharger look like an uplink chip -->
<item index="19"><shape coll="7" seq="16"/></item>
</items>
<scenery>
<!-- Make the lamps destroyable -->
<object index="50" flags="5" destruction="2"/>
<object index="51" flags="5"><destroyed><shape coll="25"
seq="11"/></destroyed></object>
<!-- Make the glass container very fat -->
<object index="55" radius="1024" height="256"/>
<!-- Make the floor whip antenna solid -->
<object index="59" flags="1" radius="64" height="1024"/>
</scenery>
<landscapes>
<landscape coll="27" horiz_exp="0" vert_exp="2" ogl_asprat_exp="0"/>
</landscapes>
</marathon>
--
Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] And a fast train
My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
------------------------------
From: Guy White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lilo error
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:15:11 GMT
The Contact <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
> liveinhope wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I am new in linux.
>> I found problem when I started my computer
>> after installed Red Hat 6.2.
>> I have win98se in my system, so I installed lilo in MBR.
>> When it started...
>> Only show "LI", then my computer hold...
>> And I tried to use boot disk...
>> It prompted "Error 0x10".
>> My system has two IDE hd and one scsi hd.
>> I installed win98se and rh to one ide hd.
>> How to solve it? And what're the causes?
>> Thank you.
> Have you altered your lilo.conf file? If so, did you forget to rerun
> lilo?
If you're running LBA in BIOS on that drive you need to add the
"linear" option into /etc/lilo.conf. But, since you can't boot, get a
boot disk from toms.net [tomsrtbt]. That will boot you into linux so
you can repair your lilo.conf file. There may also be a boot disk
image on your installation CD in a /util or /boot directory. Write
that to a floppy using rawrite. Whichever works for you.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:39:19 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:D4nq5.20526$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > You do realize that is software that gives any meaning to the data on
the
> > storage device beyond just a collection of bytes or bits arranged as
fixed
> > sized records in th case of DASD devices. It is the processor that
gives
> > any meaning to the contents of ROMs, without interpretation the data is
> just
> > a random collection of whatever method is used to record the data. Just
> > like writing is just a random collection of marking for someone who can
> not
> > read it.
> >
> > What do you mean by "other platforms"? It seems that you are not using
> the
> > same meaning that is attached to it by the reset of us.
>
> My point is that the storage defines the software. Meaning is another
> issue, related closely to Magic.
As a wise man said, any advanced technology would appear as magic to a
primative. No wonder you are having trouble installing software and are
hoping for miracle solutions. I on the other hand am not a primative I
understand just how the software and hardware operate. I can assure you
there is no magic involved. It is technology based on sound scientific
principles that make the computers work. Do you know that programs can
exist without computer storage? So your statement that storage defines the
software is a invalid.
> The storage exists logically outside the execution environment of the
> software. Storage can be constructed for a processor with the software we
> want that processor to use.
>
> platform -- a physically different computer or a different OS or a
different
> processor, or smart storage. I'm pretty flexible with how you understand
> the term platform. Most readings work, best I can tell. I'll even take a
> virtual machine or two.
That is what I thought, you are incorrectly using the word "platform".
> BTW, Does it hurt to be reset ? ;-)
Pardon?
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:12:00 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:SJmq5.20399
> Distributed applications mean that to get the distributed application to
> run, I have to get a number of applications installed and configured,
> usually across a range of platforms, and integrated with firewalls, etc.
> Today I do that with sometimes great programs (like the RPM) and sometimes
> with less great facilities (like Install Shield). But I have to manually
> install and configure each component, often in an exact order. I have
> databases, database clients, compilers, web servers, object request
brokers
> of various sorts, etc. that all have their own sets of needed tweaks based
> on the topology we are setting up.
>
> All of that just to get the right abstractions up and running so we can
> begin to talk about setting up and configuring the actual application.
>
> That is what I mean when I say we need to be able to manage cross platform
> distributed applications. Today we have given up on client side
> distributed applications. Involving the client in all of this seems like
it
> is just too difficult. But look at the promises! Many of the
applications
> we are predicting require client side intelligence. And even the ones
that
> don't are passing up on lots of CPU cycles that would greatly improve
their
> performance. All because we can't deliver and manage software.
Who can't deliver software? It is being done all the time.
What do you mean that we can't manage software and who is we?
> The Internet means distributed applications. And internet delivered
> software. Transient software (applications that install, you use for a
> while, then they go away.)
>From which RFC did you get that definition of the Internet.
Who controls the installation, use, and removeal of the "transient
software"?
> Take one of many examples:
>
> Say that I want to be able, as an Application Service Provider (ASP), to
> deliver native code to my clients. But today I can't because I can't
manage
> all the combinations of possible configuration issues that my customers
are
> going to encounter if I deliver software the way we do today. As an ASP I
> become responsible. If I try to push this responsibility off onto the
> specific Application Developer, they are simply going blame the problem on
> one or more of the other venders that delivered software to this customer.
>
> But if instead I am providing XML described software, then this
> responsibility to deal with these combinations shifts to the vender of the
> Software Rendering Facility the customer is using. But unlike the ASP,
the
> Facility vender deals with this day in and day out for all their customers
> (a set much larger than the ASPs). And doing so is part of their value
add.
> Furthermore, part of their value add is assuring the customer they can
> cleanly remove the new software if no repair for the installation is forth
> comming.
>
> That is why the Internet changes things.
No, the internet changes nothing. But rather than going into detail now, I
will wait until I have seen your concrete example.
On the other issue of ASP's, you have still not responded to my eariler
questions of how you would address various problems that would happen, if
the world of computing accepted the ASP model as a norm.
> We are at the breaking edge when it comes to delivering and deploying
these
> technologies. System upgrades? Replacing a busted server? Reconfiguring
to
> use the next release of a database?
and slipping in Trojan software, breaking solid installation so you can seel
an upgrade compromising privacy and security.
> These are all very, very difficult when
> they must be done manually, system by system.
Yes, it is quite difficult to slip in and then slip back out software that
is counter counter to the benefits of the owners of the computers when you
have to rely on them or their agents to unknowingly perform the neferious
deed for you.
> What is to be done if even reasonably simple applications that you happen
to
> desire (but I would never dare imply intersect my own) happen to require
> code to be installed on your computing device? Even if we "trust" each
> other, my code might not be compatible with other code you are using.
This
> problem may even be a known one, along with the configuration fix needed.
Then it should be the job of the person responsible for the computer to
perform the steps needed to make things work. That way, if and when thing
break he or she will know what was done and how to remedy it. AND if
someone is trying to pull a fast one on them, they will have the evidence.
> How do we upgrade and manage distributed applications when they do break
out
> of the servers and onto the Internet in peer to peer configurations?
They same way we do it now already. It works and it is secure. The person
responsible for the computer determines the the machine should participate,
they aquire the required software, reguardless of who developed it, so long
as it is compatible with the communications protocol. They the install it.
> > By the way, do you know what it means to program a station? I don't
think
> > you do, or else you would not have used, "the station I programmed on
the
> > Internet", since it does not belong in this discussion.
>
> www.Sonicnet.com I am not sure why I referenced it, but I just
"programmed"
> my station, which delivers western music, classical, and pop. You really
> haven't lived until your radio station follows Bach with Johnny Cash! No
> way anyone could have followed that reference, so I am sorry for any
> heartburn it caused.
Again, you confirm that you are using invalid definitions for your
terminology.
> > > We can't do all of this by coping all our files onto our bin
directory.
> >
> > I never mentioned anythng about copying anything into bin. I never even
> > mentioned bin. Further, I would never suggest putting ALL our files
into
> > bin let alone onto bin. The installation method has nothing to do with
> what
> > the software can do once it is installed.
>
> Forget the reference to bin (a really dirt simple install method that
likely
> predates you a bit).
Guess again.
> However, you nailed it on the head there! Let me repeat you:
>
> > The installation method has nothing to do with what
> > the software can do once it is installed.
>
> So true. And my point. And it doesn't matter who did it either. And
> installs are solely modifications to storage. Just changes to some data
> structures (the file system). So rather than argue those points (which it
> seems we now agree on them) explain why we should describe these
> modifications differently for different target systems? Why the
information
> about how these structures are interrelated is uninteresting past install?
> Why versioning of applications (and their related structural changes)
> doesn't have to be explict? And why should we do installs from within the
> OS? Why not outside the OS where we can manage everything, across
> platforms, in the same way?
> > You are begining to sound like a person how has come up with a half
baked
> > idea to solve a problem that does not exist and is now trying to
convince
> > others that they have a problem so that your can sell them your solution
> for
> > it. Yes sir you have trouble right here in River City!
>
> Well, we do. You might be managing a single system, but I am not.
Guess again.
> And I am
> in the position of having to explain to customers how they are going to
> manage their systems after I have gone to my next job. Or explain to them
> that we have spent three weeks getting an application to work, but we
don't
> have anything to check in to the source code control system. ("We were not
> working on code. It took us three weeks to get X to talk to Y, and for Z
to
> come up configured to point to A through firewall B. We are documenting
it,
> so if something goes wrong, you will be able <cough, look at toes> to
> duplicate what we had to do to make it work. We will check that docuement
> in. >")
Pardon me, but are you admitting that you are a "flim flam man"?
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:37:21 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message
> I wonder if he realises you can practically do that with Mozilla now.
> Take Chatzilla for example; you click on the "install Chatzilla"
> button and Mozilla takes the .xpi file and installs it. It's platform
> independant and easy. If Mozilla were to grow into a desktop shell,
> then this ideal could be at least partially realised.
You and I and many others know it, but I don't think he would accept it. It
conflicts with what seems to be his needs for the day. Imagine he is
Preston's character in the "Music Man".
------------------------------
From: Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BIOS-->hdb-->LILO-->{linux(hdb);windows(hda)}
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:00:13 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Okay, there's a solution for this too!
this part:
other=/dev/hda
label=win98
should be:
other=/dev/hda
label=win98
map-drive = 0x81
to = 0x80
map-drive = 0x80
to = 0x81
table = /dev/hda
(I'm not sure if you'll need the last line, but it doesn't hurt either)
And again, don't forget to run lilo!
Eric
Dan Jacobson wrote:
>
> "Eric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ????? news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Dan Jacobson wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, I now have BIOS set to boot from IDE Primary slave (hdb), where I
> have
> > > a Linux native disk drive with Linux MBR where I'm hoping to have it
> ask
> > > me the windows or Linux choice.
> > Just add the following to /etc/lilo.conf:
> >
> > other=/dev/hda
> > label=win98
> >
> > and don't forget to run lilo afterwards.
> Doesn't work... must be something about me making the boot sequence in
> BIOS now "D, A" [primary slave, floppy] causes windows98 to think it's not
> on primary master IDE...
>
> Anyway, it seems that indeed there is no other way than to tamper with MBR
> of hda, is that true?
>
> here's my lilo.conf
>
> boot=/dev/hdb
> map=/boot/map
> install=/boot/boot.b
> default=linux
> keytable=/boot/us.klt
> disk=/dev/hdb bios=0x80 <--is this a clue that it's a special case?
> prompt
> timeout=130 <--one or the other .. havent studyed up yet, never mind
> delay=150
> message=/boot/message
> other=/dev/fd0
> label=floppy
> unsafe
> #other=/dev/hda none of these worked anyway... at most just hangs...
> other=/dev/hda1
> label=win
> table=/dev/hda use this or not still no go
> # unsafe
> image=/boot/vmlinuz
> label=linux
> root=/dev/hdb5
> append="hdc=ide-scsi"
> read-only
> --
> www.geocities.com/jidanni ... fix e-mail address to reply; ???
> Tel:+886-4-5854780; starting in year 2001: +886-4-25854780
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.setup) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Setup Digest
******************************
