On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 05:43:01PM +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 3:00 PM, maxime.ripard <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 12:43:50PM +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> > > Thanks all for the replies!
> > >
> > > I composed the document for Nicolas and I hope he manages to arrange for
> > a
> > > video interview.
> > > The two main aspects were that what Allwinner currently provides (to the
> > > developer communities) is not sufficient,
> > > and that what is needed is a direct contact from Allwinner to the
> > > linux-sunxi community
> > > in order to sort out issues as they develop.
> >
> > I'm a bit concerned about this to be honest.
> >
> > No other SoC vendor will give you that sort of thing for free.
> > And no other SoC vendor will either send dev boards to any random dude
> > on the internet.
> >
> > I don't think you could show up and just require that.
> >
> 
> I think the bar has been set quite low so there should be little concern.
> That is, Nicolas will probably try to arrange for an interview to discuss
> about open-source development at Allwinner.
> He may try the style of his existing videos (camera on hand, visit offices
> and talk directly to employees)
> or take an interview with a spokesperson of Allwinner.
> He should describe the need to have upstream support for Allwinner SoCs,
> and the need to have some direct contact with Allwinner on open-source
> software development.

I think before we told them we *need* it, we should explain why it's
important for them. I'm not sure they fully realize that yet, and it's
on what we should focus. It takes education, and not just a video
interview.

> He can use the argument: look, Rockchip has DT files in the Linux kernel,
> and there are none from Allwinner.

Both of them have. And until very recently, coming from the same
source: hobbyists. Rockchip has started in the past couple monthes to
work on it.

> Or, if you want to enter the server market, then it is quite
> important to have mainline Linux kernel support.

That is true, but again, you're just making a statement, without
explaining why.

> The effort happening from linux-sunxi is for the benefit of Allwinner.

Are we talking about 3.4 or mainline here?

> > > I suspect they could eliminate 50% of their support burden by doing
> > > two things:
> > > 1) Full documentation in the manuals/datasheets
> > > 2) Put the SDKs up on a public server so that people can be sure they
> > > are using the most recent ones.
> >
> > Keep in mind that Allwinner are used to not having many outside
> > developers working on code for their chips. The SDK is produced by a
> > fairly small team of people, and their main target market is high wolume
> > tablets, where all is using their SDK and supported periperial devices
> > (touch screens etc), and even large part of the PCB designs are done by
> > a small group and then copied as-is by others.
> >
> > Going from that to full documented chip with a lot of code developed &
> > maintained outside is very very far and they will need a lot of help and
> > positive guidance on how to move forward.
> >
>
> I think that this describes the situation, and we should take that into
> account when interacting with Allwinner.

Yep. Again, I'm not sure an interview is the proper way to express this.

> > Demanding is not the right approach. Allwinner is not dependent on
> > linux-sunxi at all for the bulk of their market share.
> 
> The argument about the A80 being used in a server environment is quite
> strong and requires mainline Linux kernel support.

Multiple examples show that the server market doesn't "require"
that. See NX-BOX and mininodes.

> In addition, Allwinner would probably want to grown in new markets, such as
> tablets with Firefox OS (Mozilla Foundation) or Ubuntu (Canonical).
> Both these would ideally require mainline Linux kernel support (and uboot,
> etc).
> There was a recent mail here about 500 A31 tablets running Firefox OS and
> having a exotic issue with OS/X.

Which shows that Firefox OS can accomodate pretty well with a vendor kernel.

I'm playing a bit the devil's advocate here, but it's really answers
that you should expect.

-- 
Maxime Ripard, Free Electrons
Embedded Linux, Kernel and Android engineering
http://free-electrons.com

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