On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 05:43:01PM +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote: > On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 3:00 PM, maxime.ripard < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 06, 2014 at 12:43:50PM +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote: > > > Thanks all for the replies! > > > > > > I composed the document for Nicolas and I hope he manages to arrange for > > a > > > video interview. > > > The two main aspects were that what Allwinner currently provides (to the > > > developer communities) is not sufficient, > > > and that what is needed is a direct contact from Allwinner to the > > > linux-sunxi community > > > in order to sort out issues as they develop. > > > > I'm a bit concerned about this to be honest. > > > > No other SoC vendor will give you that sort of thing for free. > > And no other SoC vendor will either send dev boards to any random dude > > on the internet. > > > > I don't think you could show up and just require that. > > > > I think the bar has been set quite low so there should be little concern. > That is, Nicolas will probably try to arrange for an interview to discuss > about open-source development at Allwinner. > He may try the style of his existing videos (camera on hand, visit offices > and talk directly to employees) > or take an interview with a spokesperson of Allwinner. > He should describe the need to have upstream support for Allwinner SoCs, > and the need to have some direct contact with Allwinner on open-source > software development.
I think before we told them we *need* it, we should explain why it's important for them. I'm not sure they fully realize that yet, and it's on what we should focus. It takes education, and not just a video interview. > He can use the argument: look, Rockchip has DT files in the Linux kernel, > and there are none from Allwinner. Both of them have. And until very recently, coming from the same source: hobbyists. Rockchip has started in the past couple monthes to work on it. > Or, if you want to enter the server market, then it is quite > important to have mainline Linux kernel support. That is true, but again, you're just making a statement, without explaining why. > The effort happening from linux-sunxi is for the benefit of Allwinner. Are we talking about 3.4 or mainline here? > > > I suspect they could eliminate 50% of their support burden by doing > > > two things: > > > 1) Full documentation in the manuals/datasheets > > > 2) Put the SDKs up on a public server so that people can be sure they > > > are using the most recent ones. > > > > Keep in mind that Allwinner are used to not having many outside > > developers working on code for their chips. The SDK is produced by a > > fairly small team of people, and their main target market is high wolume > > tablets, where all is using their SDK and supported periperial devices > > (touch screens etc), and even large part of the PCB designs are done by > > a small group and then copied as-is by others. > > > > Going from that to full documented chip with a lot of code developed & > > maintained outside is very very far and they will need a lot of help and > > positive guidance on how to move forward. > > > > I think that this describes the situation, and we should take that into > account when interacting with Allwinner. Yep. Again, I'm not sure an interview is the proper way to express this. > > Demanding is not the right approach. Allwinner is not dependent on > > linux-sunxi at all for the bulk of their market share. > > The argument about the A80 being used in a server environment is quite > strong and requires mainline Linux kernel support. Multiple examples show that the server market doesn't "require" that. See NX-BOX and mininodes. > In addition, Allwinner would probably want to grown in new markets, such as > tablets with Firefox OS (Mozilla Foundation) or Ubuntu (Canonical). > Both these would ideally require mainline Linux kernel support (and uboot, > etc). > There was a recent mail here about 500 A31 tablets running Firefox OS and > having a exotic issue with OS/X. Which shows that Firefox OS can accomodate pretty well with a vendor kernel. I'm playing a bit the devil's advocate here, but it's really answers that you should expect. -- Maxime Ripard, Free Electrons Embedded Linux, Kernel and Android engineering http://free-electrons.com
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