Thanks, Pablo!

You have a good point that perhaps Apache should have no encoding
set by default, thus forcing everyone to read the documentation and
make a decision.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

On Monday 2004.10.11 18:16:09 +0200, Pablo Saratxaga wrote:
> Kaixo!
> 
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 11:56:09AM -0400, Edward H. Trager wrote:
>  
> > MANDRAKE:
> > =========
> > And does anyone know the official story about Mandrake?
> > I installed Mandrake 10.0 (from a magazine disc) and got
> > an ISO-8859-1 locale instead of a UTF-8 locale.
> 
> It depends on your installation choices.
> In Mandrakelinux there are some locales that are in UTF-8 by default
> (those languages that can be supported only in UTF-8, or that don't
> have any large legacy corpus in non-UTF-8);
> and other locales that do have large legacy in non UTF-8 that are,
> currently (it will hopefully change sometime in the future) in legacy
> encoding by default.
> But there is, under the "advanced" tab, a "use UTF-8" by default
> checkbox, so you can force UTF-8 in anycase.
> UTF-8 is also used if you choose several languages and UTF-8 is the
> only shared encoding (eg, if you choose support for French and German, both
> with legacy iso-8859-15 by default, UTF-8 won't be enabled (unless you
> check the UTF-8 checkbox), but if you choose French and Geek for
> example, as iso-8859-15 and iso-8859-7 are different, then UTF-8 is
> used). 
> 
> > The Mandrake
> > locale-setting GUI continued to provide only legacy ISO options,
> > as far as I could tell.
> 
> the choice has to be done at install time (as use of utf-8 or not
> has consequences on how data is stored on hard disks on native linux
> partitions; it is not 100% automatizable to change it afterward)
> 
> >  In the end I manually set the .i18n
> > file to en_US.UTF-8 and everything seems to work to the extent that
> > I have tested it.  So why is UTF-8 not the default?  Does anyone know?
> 
> Because people complained.
> UTF-8 support a year ago was not as good as now, and a lot of people
> (in particular those using "en_US" locale :) ) would complain about ugly
> fonts and other problems if UTF-8 was the default.
> 
> The situation improved a lot, and nowadays there are very few problems
> left, probably UTF-8 could be made the default soon; and maybe it could
> have been made the default if there weren't other more important issues
> to spend our time.
> 
> > APACHE:
> 
> One of the remaining problems is the problem of web pages in cp1252 with
> unanounced encoding, when using utf-8 by default some browsers display
> them wrong (browsers should do some automatic charset encoding detection
> to see if the page is in utf-8, or in cp1252 (the two only valid choices
> for unanounced encoding pages, imho).
> Same for email programs too (since I switched to utf-8 I got a lot of
> messages that display wrongly as they are encoded in cp1252 but don't
> announce it properly (in particular in the subject/from headers; but
> also in the body); here too, some automatic encoding detection could
> help a lot.
> 
> > The last time I installed Apache 2.0.x, it too defaults to the
> > legacy ISO-8859-1 configuration.  One has to manually change the configuration
> > file in order to get HTML pages served with the correct headers
> > indicating UTF-8.
> 
> No, it is to the individual files to announce their encoding, not to
> the web server.
> I don't have any problem using apache with html files correctly
> anouncing their encoding, I use a mix of iso-8859-1/iso-8859-15/utf-8,
> with some occasional iso-2022-jp pages too.
> 
> > Does anyone know if this is still the case?  When is this going to change?
> > Apache 2.0.x should really default to UTF-8.  Do people agree with me here?
> 
> I disagree :)
> The default therefore must not be utf-8 but simply nothing,
> forcing a single encoding for all the pages of a whole server is
> something that can only be done by the manager of the server, after
> carefully thinking about it; not something that should be blindly
> enforced by default.
> 
> I however fully agree with you that forcing iso-8859-1 by default is
> vey wrong; but I think that forcing any encoding by default is wrong.
> 
> -- 
> Ki �a vos v�ye b�n,
> Pablo Saratxaga
> 
> http://chanae.walon.org/pablo/                PGP Key available, key ID: 0xD9B85466
> [you can write me in Walloon, Spanish, French, English, Catalan or Esperanto]
> [min povas skribi en valona, esperanta, angla aux latinidaj lingvoj]



--
Linux-UTF8:   i18n of Linux on all levels
Archive:      http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/

  • D... xerces8
    • ... Daniel M. Bergey
    • ... Edward H. Trager
      • ... Pablo Saratxaga
        • ... Edward H. Trager
          • ... jmaiorana
            • ... Pablo Saratxaga
          • ... Markus Kuhn
          • ... Keld J�rn Simonsen
    • ... Jan Willem Stumpel

Reply via email to