It's pretty obvious to me that this issue of posting, netiquette and the like really is a bigger issue than might be thought on the surface, judging by the number of posts related to the matter. Allow me to make some comments on the subject. These comments are offered without any malicious intent, and are offered merely as my own musings on the subject arising out of remarks made in recent posts on this subject.
To post a reply. Where to add ones comments? I belong to a number of groups, most not GNU/Linux or computer related, and each has its own standards for posting. I tend to follow reasonably closely to the older concepts of netiquette, and either bottom post or intersperse my comments throughout the message in all groups, mostly out of habit, but also because it's the logical method to my way of thinking. This is not to say that my thoughts are superior, just that that's how it works for me. There has been recent comment about confusion arising from interspersed comments. This is an easy thing I believe, if the basics of how email clients work is understood. When an email is received and opened, it will be noticed that there are marks down the left hand margin. In plain text, these are usually greater than signs (thus: > ). In HTML, there will be something like a blue vertical bar. Each time a portion of text is re-sent, another of these marks is added to each line, so automatically indicating the number of times that portion of text has been sent. In this way, the chronology of a discussion is indicated, and the reader can see the progression of thoughts. Seeing at least two of these marks at the top of a message instantly indicates that the latest reply is further down the body of text somewhere. Where a post covers a range of issues, adding ones comments at the end of each issue, rather than all together at the bottom seems to me to make the message more conversational, and keeps related ideas together, making the reading and comprehending a simpler matter. Once again, the marking in the left hand margin is the key to recognising latest additions to the thread. Further, I believe that if all contributors to a particular group post in like manner, whatever that may be, the chances of confusion diminish, as all will have the same expectations with regard to how to read messages. To start another group for Linux newbies? There is nothing stopping anyone who desires doing so. However, it appears that the suggestion was made for the benefit of that mysterious person, someone else. Success. How shall that be measured? Number of posts, or number of meaningful and helpful replies? It seems to me that a group with lower traffic, but higher success rate in resolving problems may be in the final analysis the more successful group. But, on the other hand, a higher level of posts where those posts are helping a newbie to learn about Linux related matters might also be called more successful. A group where the traffic is high, but erroneous information is bandied about, corrected, and little is learned, would be the least successful of all. I have seen this occurring, especially in a particular Red Hat user group, where the gurus appear to have given up pretty much. Newbies are "advising" each other with poor and partial knowledge. No-one learns anything, and often confusion reigns over how to resolve a particular matter. Worst of all, no reference material is pointed to for the learning benefit of the distressed newbie. The owner(s), moderators, and other gurus who offer their time and knowledge in a new group will have the same issues as discussed above. Matters such as what the original question is, and whether a meaningful answer is located somewhere inside a non-consecutive block of text has already been given, will all amount to a lot of unneeded reading and wastage of time, that most valuable resource. On a somewhat related matter: One thing I have seen is the gradual eroding of the number of replies that do not give direct answers to problems as stated. This, in my opinion, is a bad thing. In times past, a direct answer to a problem was rarely seen. The group gurus preferred to point newbies to resources where solutions could be found. This had a twofold benefit. One, the newbie actually learned something of the workings of the operating system or software, and two, got ideas about how to find references, thus enabling them to research for themselves. This method of imparting knowledge has probably been the most valuable part of belonging to groups such as this for me. I sorely lament the progressive passing of this time honoured teaching method. This diminishing of those who know pointing the way to self help is, I believe, largely related to not wishing to offer advice or ignoring posts, simply because the posts are not presented in a manner that makes responding as simple and painless a possible. I know I've harped on about this matter for too long already, but please show some respect for those who would give so generously, and observe the simple courtesies that they ask for. Well, if you've read this far, I thank you for your indulgence. As I stated at the beginning of this post, I intend no malice in writing this, and hope I haven't trodden on any toes in the process. These are only the thoughts that come to me from having read previous posts on this subject. Regards, Clayton Bonser. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/0XFolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this list, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] & you will be removed. Yahoo! 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