On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 08:03:32PM -0000, Gary wrote:
> > Of course, if one follows a thread from it's beginning, one *does* > know the question, and it is therefore more useful to have the newest > information and developments right at the top where they will be > visible first, without having to wade through repetitions of the same > damn block of text. That's because people also have to learn how to trim. :) > > I've also seen tellingly pithy commentary that pure bottom posting is > just as annoying, especially if the lead-in is extremely long. Yes, of course. I remember an old martial arts mailing list--one fellow would leave in literally pages of commentary only to add at the end... good post. Most of us who deal with computers professionally belong to many many mailing lists. Important as the problem might be to the poster, I might have a busy day at work and no chance to check my home email. I get home, and there are well over a hundred messages. So, if I scroll through Linux newbies and see something like, "Well, I tried that but it didn't work," I delete it and move on. Now, does that matter? Well, if it's something like using Japanese in Linux or getting the AR5007EG wireless card to work, yeah, it could, I'm quite knowledgeable about those things. However, the thing is that most of the knowledgeable people on this list, though of course, not all, are in similar situations. We might read through a post on a bored Sunday, but on a weekday evening, there's a good chance that many folks will skip it. The list faq has a section on netiquette with links to several good pages describing proper posting. http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php is one of the best for newcomers, in my less than humble opinion. > > Interweaving is a lot of work, because the line breaks never match up > properly, so one is always adding or removing ">" characters, slowing > down what can already be a slow process. Hrrm, what mailer? Mutt handles it quite well for me as a rule. I see you use yahoo's message thing--it does very strange things with quoting. Most mailers however, make it relatively easy. > > Also, of course, sometimes one *needs* the whole text to remain in a > single bloc, to understand and/or frame the question properly. Or, > especially when arguments get a bit heated (guilty as charged), one > needs to quote exactly, as demonstration of one's honest intent -- > because while editing does conserve bandwidth, it can be selective in > a bad way, too. True, it's always a judgement call, so someone will always disagree--the idea, however is to avoid what you dislike, making someone wade through a large large block that they've already read. > > Of course, to be *certain* that what has gone before has not been > edited to alter meaning, one has to read the previous entries in the > thread, anyway! Who, me, paranoid? How long have *you* been on the > internet, friend? You're simply jealous that the voices only speak to me. > > I've seen forums where the hard-and-fast rule is "find an existing > thread on your topic before starting a new one", and others where > so-called-'necroposting' (resurrecting dead threads) is a 7-day-ban(!) > on the FIRST offense. Sounds harsh. On Fedora forums, with over 100,000 members, we're pretty lenient, as a rule. If it's not spam, it's never without a warning. Most forums have guidelines--but it's always hard to tell. > > So what this all amounts to, is that *anything* one does, top-, > bottom-, or interweave-posting, snipping or not-snipping, is WRONG. > Or RIGHT, depending on the situation. o_O Clear as mud, right? No, it's quite clear. You feel someone will always complain. If you trim and post inline, the people who are usually the most experienced on the list will back you up. I remember once, perhaps this list, perhaps another--I answered a question, pointing out that the user shouldn't top post. There were all sorts of emails in response to it. My final answer was, I answered the question, none of you have, so let the original poster decide. > > If you, Dear Reader, can't understand a posting simply because of the > ordering of the paragraphs, the problem resides in the READER, not the > POSTER -- and adjusting one's own habits is an easier fix than > changing the whole world. Nope, but tech mailing lists, as a rule, have guidelines. Now, let's see. What you are telling me here is that I, because I might be able to help you--though I have no idea what the question is till I scroll wayyyy down--should take my time, which I'm offering freely--and, for what it's worth, I'm a Linux professional who is paid for his Linux knowledge. Errm, sorry, no, I won't. I will if you pay me. :) However, I'll be far more likely to help those who seem to have made the very minor effort to make their posts easier to read for those who can help them. They've already shown appreciation. Now, that's just me. I'm only one person on this list. There's lot of other very helpful and wise people who won't be so harsh. So, you might not be missing anything. Neither of us will know. :) (By the way, the "you" in this is meant generically, as opposed to you, Gary.) Now, if I have a question that I need to ask on this list, I'll accept an answer posted in any which way. However, if it's request for help, I do feel that as my free time is quite limited, it's better served helping those who have made a bit of effort to help themselves, and done a bit of research on the best way to post a question. > > And I personally would encourage posters to do so in whatever style is > sensible and comfortable to them -- as long as it's grammatical and > spelled correctly at least 90% of the time ;) That's all I ask. im a grate sepler. Heh, I can't even understand that one and I wrote it. It should be I'm a great speller. BTW, we should all be conscious of that as not everyone has English as their first language, and misspellings make it even more difficult for them. An interesting post. Thank you. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: I need you to take Spike for a few days. Xander: What? Spike: What? Anya: What? Spike: I'm not stayin' with him. Giles: I have a friend who's coming to town, and I'd like us to be alone. Anya: Oh, you mean an orgasm friend? Giles: Yes, that's exactly the most appalling thing you could have said. ------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] & you will be removed.Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LINUX_Newbies/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LINUX_Newbies/join (Yahoo! 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