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> rather then respond item by item to that barrage of > gibberish, moron, remember what prompted your original > response - I had said it was unfortunate that Apple > didn't build the MACINTOSH with a crt controller. Then > you went on to eat up unnecessary bandwidth with a > reply that meant next to nothing. And I responded > with, well, could a MACINTOSH w/o a crt controller do > this? No one is running down the Mac or the Lisa, yes > each has it's own merits. But my premise was the > MACINTOSH couldn't accomplish anything close due to > the lack of dedicated video hardware. Go back and read > the original post big man. And in the future don't > lose it just because someone shows you up. > > --- Ray Arachelian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Eh? Somehow I think you're being a troll. >> >> I'm not sure how converting a modern MPG, which was >> not available back >> in 1982, into a bunch of 80x25 or 40x25 color >> attributes and requiring a >> sound blaster card, which did not exist at the time >> of the introduction >> of the PC somehow proves that one system is better >> than another. >> Especially since it was never meant to, or actually >> used in this way. >> >> Yes, it's very cool, but, um, so what? Each system >> has its own >> technical merits, and it's own market, and each had >> both their own >> successes and failures. >> >> What I mean by 2K or 4K of bandwidth is this. The >> stuff you see on that >> display is not in hires or even lowres graphics. In >> fact, it is just >> tweaking of the color attributes, which are, as >> expected 80x25. >> 80*25=2000 bytes. aka 2K. Now that display >> actually had 4K of memory >> in that mode. 2K was used for color information, >> broken up into >> nibbles, that is 4 bits for the foreground color, >> and 4 bits for the >> background color. >> >> Even that's a rather generous assumption. You could >> go into 40x25 mode, >> and write only to the background color, so in that >> case you're writing >> to 1000 bytes, of which you only use half a byte for >> the 16 color >> background - so effectively it would by 500 bytes, >> though you really do >> have to write to all 1000 in 40x25 or all 2000 in >> 80x25. This is what I >> mean about it being the size of two icons. You're >> getting excited over >> a movie displayed in less screen real estate than an >> icon on a modern >> display. >> >> So, yes, the total bandwidth to display a movie in >> this way on an IBM PC >> is well within it's capability, and while impressive >> on the surface, >> it's still within the limits of an 8 bit 4.77MHz >> 8088. >> >> Indeed, I do have to wonder what decade we're >> comparing here. MPG video >> did not exist in 1982, and yes, when I say >> 720x364x2, I am talking about >> the Lisa and not the Mac. Incase you've not >> noticed, this forum is >> called "Lisa List." Not "The Original Mac 128 >> List." That 720x364x2 >> took up 32K of RAM vs at most 2K on the PC. Big >> difference in bandwidth >> there. It's certainly not possible to capture that >> video on a PC of >> that era and pre-process it into the format needed >> to display it back. >> So to play back a movie on a Lisa, you'd need to >> push 32KBytes 30 times >> a second. To play back this demo, you need to push >> 2Kbytes 30 times a >> second - a lot easier to do. >> >> While I could get either an IBM PC 5150 with a CGA >> card, and color >> monitor, or a Mac 128 for the $2.5K you mention, >> these are two different >> products, in two different markets that have very >> little to do with each >> other, other than both being personal computers from >> the 1980's. The PC >> was what, 1982, the Mac was 1984. The Lisa, which >> is what this forum's >> topic is about, is far closer to a mini-computer, >> and was actually built >> by folks who previously worked on mini's. I'd say >> it was a workstation, >> though that word wasn't used at the time. >> >> I'm sure that if you were to challenge someone from >> the demo scene, >> you'll find they could come up with a dazzling demo >> that would run on a >> stock Lisa 2 and be as impressive, if not more so. >> Ditto for the >> original Mac 128 - oh wait, it was already done, and >> it talked too as >> Larry Rosenstein already pointed out here: >> > <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Intro_Demo.txt> >> >> Which system is better? Depends on what you want to >> do and for how >> much. Should the PC have had a display controller >> based on character >> generation and attributes? What about the Apple II, >> the Commodores, et >> al? Sure. Should the Lisa and the Mac? Hell no - >> it was designed on >> purpose to always use bit mapped graphics in order >> to produce paper >> documents. Different markets, different price >> points, different >> technologies, different reasons for their own >> designs. That would be >> comparing apples, eh, to um, oranges. >> >> Each system has both their good and bad points, each >> has their technical >> merits, and each has their niche. They are all as >> wonderful as you can >> find reasons to use them. An icon sized movie does >> not make one overall >> system better or worse, nor does it say that all >> systems should use >> character generator based controllers. >> >> -- >> LisaList is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> >> and... >> >> Shop buy.com and save. >> <http://lowendmac.com/ad/buy.com.html> >> >> Support Low End Mac >> <http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html> >> >> LisaList info: >> <http://lowendmac.com/lists/lisa.html> >> --> AOL users, remove "mailto:"; >> Send list messages to: >> <mailto:lisalist@mail.maclaunch.com> >> To unsubscribe, email: >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> For digest mode, email: >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Subscription questions: >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Archive: >> > <http://www.mail-archive.com/lisalist%40mail.maclaunch.com/> >> >> iPod Accessories for Less >> at 1-800-iPOD.COM >> Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal >> www.1800ipod.com >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? 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