Hello Weiguo,

> VXLAN-GPE have next protocol field, so it can combine multiple data planes 
> into one VXLAN-gpe.

so you are fine with the VxLAN-gpe layout then? Okay, I misunderstood this.

> Currently inner destination MAC can be used to 
> distinguish layer 2 and layer 3 traffic at egress NVE.

as I said I see a subtle difference here and would say VxLAN is doing a 
layer-2 operation. Nevertheless, if your encapsulation/decapsulation network 
elements understand this layer-2 aspect, are capable to add Ethernet header, 
VxLAN shim and outer IP header onto the inner IP packet etc., then yes, you 
could transport layer-3 with VxLAN.


Regards, Marc



> Thanks
> weiguo
> ________________________________________
> 发件人: Marc Binderberger [[email protected]]
> 发送时间: 2014年7月30日 14:40
> 收件人: Haoweiguo
> 抄送: Dino Farinacci; David Melman; [email protected]; LISP mailing list list; 
> Tom Herbert
> 主题: Re: [nvo3] 答复: 答复:  Comments on 
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-03
> 
> Hello Weiguo,
> 
> I would say there is a difference if your "layer-3" service is actually a
> layer-2 Ethernet frame with the destination MAC of the encapsulated packet
> being identical with the MAC of the decapsulating system, compared to a
> layer-3 service where your whole processing stays solely in the layer-3, no
> MAC involved.
> 
> If I want to define a layer-3 encapsulation (like LISP, like the proposed
> VxLAN-gpe with IPv4/v6 as protocol) then having any layer-2 in the process
> seems a bit "odd". Worse, the involved systems may not have this layer-2
> logic. LISP for example is often used in the WAN, even when some
> encapsulator/decapsulator are DC switches. Some of these WAN systems may be
> pure IPv4/v6 routers.
> 
> 
> In other words: having both a layer-2 (VxLAN) and a layer-3 (LISP)
> encapsulation makes good sense. The question is: shall we keep it separated
> as it is today as "LISP" and "VxLAN" or combine the (expensive) multiple 
> data
> planes into one VxLAN-gpe.
> 
> 
> Regards, Marc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2014 03:15:19 +0000, Haoweiguo wrote:
>> Hi Dino,
>> VXLAN can use a unified encapsulation to realize both intra-subnet layer 2
>> traffic forwarding and inter-subnet layer 3 traffic forwarding at the same
>> time, inner destination MAC is used to differenciate layer 2 traffic from
>> layer 3 traffic.
>> LISP uses two different encapsulations for intra-subnet layer 2 traffic
>> forwarding and inter-subnet layer 3 traffic forwarding, UDP port is used to
>> differenciate layer 2 traffic from layer 3 traffic.
>> From theoretical perspective,  both the two solutions are applicable. From
>> commercial use perspective, the former(unified encap for both layer 2 and
>> layer 3) seems to be more popular currently.
>> Thanks
>> weiguo
>> ________________________________________
>> 发件人: Dino Farinacci [[email protected]]
>> 发送时间: 2014年7月29日 20:18
>> 收件人: Haoweiguo
>> 抄送: David Melman; [email protected]; LISP mailing list list; Tom Herbert
>> 主题: Re: 答复: [nvo3] Comments on
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-03
>> 
>> I understand what you are saying but it comes down to what the encapsulator
>> is encapsulating. If the packet it is encapsulating is an L2 frame then the
>> encapsulator is supporting a layer-2 overlay service. Otherwise it is a a
>> layer-3 overlay service.
>> 
>> If the dest MAC Is to the encapsulator that MAC header is stripped before a
>> layer-3 forwarding decision is made. Then, at which time the packet is
>> forwarded natively or encapsulated.
>> 
>> If the dest MAC is not the encapsulator's address, then the MAC header
>> stays with the packet/frame and then encapsulated.
>> 
>> The former is a layer-3 overlay and the latter is a layer-2 overlay where
>> both can be supported at the same time in one encapsulator device.
>> 
>> The former is LISP encapsulation and the latter is VXLAN encapsulation.
>> 
>> With VXLAN-GPE both cases can be supported (and most importantly with a
>> single unified control-plane).
>> 
>> So I believe VXLAN-GPE could be useful yet redundant but LISP requires no
>> changes (if LISP supports  L2 which is documented in
>> draft-smith-lisp-layer-2 using a different port number).
>> 
>> Dino
>> 
>>> On Jul 29, 2014, at 3:58 AM, Haoweiguo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Dino,
>>> Thanks for your detail comments.  As for current VXLAN encapsulation, pls
>>> see my comments inline with [weiguo] below.
>>> 
>>> There is motivation to extend an encapsulation header (which is called
>>> VXLAN-GPE) so it can support, most importantly NSH. That change also gives
>>> VXLAN to support encapsulating layer-2 IPv4 and IPv6, which is duplicate
>>> functionality of LISP. But the headers are so similar, it really doens't
>>> matter.
>>> 
>>> [weiguo]: Yes, an new encapsulation header should be extended to support
>>> NSH. But as for IPv4 and IPv6, i think current VXLAN already supported.
>>> For the layer 3 inter-subnet traffic from NVE1 to NVE2, inner destination
>>> MAC is the gateway interface MAC at NVE2.  For the layer 2 intra-subnet
>>> traffic from NVE1 to NVE2,  inner destination MAC is the destination TS's
>>> MAC. When NVE2 receives VXLAN encapsulated traffic from NVE1, inner
>>> destination MAC can be used to differentiate layer 2 traffic from layer 3
>>> traffic. VXLAN distributed layer 3 gateway can be realized through the
>>> mechanism, NVE can forward both intra-subnet layer 2 traffic and
>>> inter-subnet layer 3 traffic at the same time.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> weiguo
>>> ________________________________________
>>> 发件人: Dino Farinacci [[email protected]]
>>> 发送时间: 2014年7月28日 22:17
>>> 收件人: Haoweiguo
>>> 抄送: David Melman; [email protected]; LISP mailing list list; Tom Herbert
>>> 主题: Re: [nvo3] Comments on
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-03
>>> 
>>>> Hi Dino,
>>>> Sorry, i misunderstood you. I think VXLAN-GPE can define a new UDP port
>>>> and a new data format, P bit
>>> 
>>> No worries.
>>> 
>>>> in VXLAN-GPE seems to have no any value. As for basic inter-subnet layer
>>>> 3 communication and intra-subnet layer 2 communication between NVEs,
>>>> current NVGRE, VXLAN and LISP have already supported,
>>> 
>>> VXLAN supports L2 overlays since its goal is to extend subnets. LISP
>>> supports L3 overlays so it assumes subnets are local (to the xTR) just
>>> like in a routed network. NVGRE can be a combo.
>>> 
>>>> NVGRE,VXLAN,LISP and VXLAN-GPE can be hybrid used to form a NVO3 network
>>>> if only basic layer 3 and
>>> 
>>> There is motivation to extend an encapsulation header (which is called
>>> VXLAN-GPE) so it can support, most importantly NSH. That change also gives
>>> VXLAN to support encapsulating layer-2 IPv4 and IPv6, which is duplicate
>>> functionality of LISP. But the headers are so similar, it really doens't
>>> matter.
>>> 
>>> However, the P-bit is not needed for anything new in LISP and the OAM-bit
>>> is not needed in LISP since LISP has different UDP port number (4342) for
>>> control-packets. VXLAN does not have a well defined control protocol so
>>> the data-plane has to escape out control-plane pakcets where the first one
>>> is this new OAM message.
>>> 
>>>> layer 2 forwarding process exists. As for some extra functions of OAM,
>>>> service chaining,and etc,  only VXLAN-GPE can support, pure VXLAN-GPE
>>>> network should be used in these cases.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> weiguo
>>> 
>>> Right, agree.
>>> 
>>> Dino
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> 发件人: Dino Farinacci [[email protected]]
>>>> 发送时间: 2014年7月28日 21:15
>>>> 收件人: Haoweiguo
>>>> 抄送: Tom Herbert; David Melman; [email protected]; LISP mailing list list
>>>> 主题: Re: 答复: [nvo3] Comments on
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe-03
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 7:24 AM, Haoweiguo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> About backward compatibility, i also agree with Dino. VXLAN-GPE should
>>>>> focus on  the VXLAN-GPE header and requires the assignment of a new UDP
>>>>> port, the data format don't need consider backward compatibility with
>>>>> VXLAN header. I
>>>> 
>>>> I want to make it clear that supporting backward compatibility is very
>>>> important since VXLAN-port-4789 is supported in various chips already.
>>>> 
>>>> Dino
>> _______________________________________________
>> nvo3 mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
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