Well chairs - can you make a decision?

Dino

> On Sep 29, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> So since there seems to be support and little or no objections, can we make 
> this draft a working group document and continue the discussion. I can add 
> more text to reflect Joel’s comments. 
> 
> Thanks for the comments and discussion Joel. 
> 
> Dino
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Joel M. Halpern <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Another way of looking at my issue here is the many problems the DNS folks 
>> have had with tXT records.  They are free-form text.  Making them useful has 
>> proven to be a major challenge.  hence, even as RLOCs rather than EIDs 
>> (where the collision problem is not an issue), I am concerned that adding 
>> this is opening a can of worms.
>> 
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>> 
>> PS: Dino, youa re correct that the hash probably won't collide with anything 
>> else.  But for anything that is not cryptographically random, collision 
>> seems a major risk.
>> 
>> PPS: Even for you hash case, you concluded that you needed a type 
>> discriminator (hash:).  Presumably so taht you would know which one you 
>> needed for the ECDSA operation.  Sensible.  But if we need that, probably 
>> eveyrone needs that.  At which point it should be part of the definition.  
>> At which point we get into defining the structure of these naems with 
>> sufficient uniqueness.  Or sub-typing,  Or something.
>> 
>> On 9/29/2020 3:58 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote:
>>>> I think it really needs more structure.  One does not say "here is a 
>>>> shared database; use any key you like and hope not to collide with other 
>>>> users."
>>> I can add that to the draft.
>>>> 
>>>>>> If there is to be standard usage of this, and if there is to be more 
>>>>>> than one such usage, how are collisions avoided?  It is not sufficient 
>>>>>> to say "just don't" as different problems may end up needing overlapping 
>>>>>> name spaces.  The hash usage (below) assumes that the solution is to 
>>>>>> prepend the string "hash:' on the front.  But that is not formally 
>>>>>> defined, and as such is not actually a reliable mechanism.
>>>>>> (Frankly, for the hashes I would prefer to use a different EID LCAF that 
>>>>>> carries the binary hash.)
>>>>> The ecdsa-auth use-case assumes that the hash length is largest where 
>>>>> collisions won’t happen. There are applications that use UUIDs and 
>>>>> encodes them in distinguished-name EIDs. UUIDs do not have an allocation 
>>>>> authority. And:
>>>> 
>>>> the ECDSA draft assumes that no other uses will begin with hash:.  This 
>>>> has nothing to do with length.  My concern is not collision amon hashes.  
>>>> It is collision between hashes and other uses of the "distinguished name" 
>>>> LCAF.
>>> If the hash avoids collisions, then anything you put before it, in totality 
>>> makes the name unique.
>>>> I suspect that the people supporting this have expectations on how this 
>>>> will work.  But it seems sufficiently basic that the semantics, rather 
>>>> than the encoding, is where I would expect the WG to start.  Encodings are 
>>>> easy.
>>>>> So lets have a look at each Internet Draft that references 
>>>>> draft-farinacci-lisp-name-encoding and lets review those semantic 
>>>>> encodings.
>>>> 
>>>> Looking at the couple of places you have chosen to use this, and have 
>>>> therefore been careful not to collide with yourself really does not tell 
>>>> us much.
>>> If you connect two IPv4 islands behind NATs and register their addresses to 
>>> the same instance-ID to the same mapping system, those addresses will 
>>> collide. The same goes for these names. That is what VPNs are used for and 
>>> hence instance-IDs allows the registering entities to agree to not collide 
>>> names.
>>> This is a general principle for the LISP mapping system for all EIDs being 
>>> used. And note for RLOC-names, they do not have to be unique. They are 
>>> free-form documentation based names.
>>>> If you want a sub-type under LCAF, then let's do that.  trying to pretend 
>>>> arbitrary strings have distinguishable semantics is asking for trouble.
>>> The AFI encoding is tigher and save less space in the packet and hence why 
>>> it was chosen. Plus if you use it in LCAFs, there is less LCAF nesting. I'm 
>>> sure many coders appreceiate this.
>>> Dino

_______________________________________________
lisp mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp

Reply via email to